christian yelich injury thread

[adambr2]

Realmuto is not and was not post-19 Yelich. And Yelich had 3 remaining years of low cost control which is not insignificant.

 

Why would a team trade someone like Yelich with three years left on a very team friendly contract? It would be like Trading Woodruff or Burnes this offseason. I supported the idea of trading Yelich with one year left but not three.

 

Well the point I was responding was not in debate of the hypothetical of whether or not we would do that, it was whether of not another team would give up a significant return, which I said they would.

 

But to answer your question -- because trade value depends heavily on the control remaining, and to your point, cheap control. A player on Yelich's level is worth significantly more when the control is more. If you trade him with one year left you're selling for significantly less.

 

Obviously, doing so depends significantly on the state of your franchise. I wouldn't trade Woodruff or Burnes after this season either. I would have significantly considered trading Woodruff if this were post-2015 Brewer season and they were at where they are now with 3 years remaining, depending on the offer.

[adambr2]

Yelich's MRI revealed no structural damage or anything significant.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/04/christian-yelich-to-undergo-mri-for-back-injury.html

[RollieTime]

Great news on Yelich, hopefully he’s able to get back healthy here this week. The lineup just doesn’t look the same when he’s out.

[clancyphile]

Great news on Yelich, hopefully he’s able to get back healthy here this week. The lineup just doesn’t look the same when he’s out.

 

I'm of the opinion they shouldn't rush him back. The negative MRI is good news, but I'd trade a game or two this year for a Yelich healthy over the long term.

[Jopal78]

Realmuto is not and was not post-19 Yelich. And Yelich had 3 remaining years of low cost control which is not insignificant.

 

Why would a team trade someone like Yelich with three years left on a very team friendly contract? It would be like Trading Woodruff or Burnes this offseason. I supported the idea of trading Yelich with one year left but not three.

 

Well the point I was responding was not in debate of the hypothetical of whether or not we would do that, it was whether of not another team would give up a significant return, which I said they would.

 

But to answer your question -- because trade value depends heavily on the control remaining, and to your point, cheap control. A player on Yelich's level is worth significantly more when the control is more. If you trade him with one year left you're selling for significantly less.

 

Obviously, doing so depends significantly on the state of your franchise. I wouldn't trade Woodruff or Burnes after this season either. I would have significantly considered trading Woodruff if this were post-2015 Brewer season and they were at where they are now with 3 years remaining, depending on the offer.

 

Yes in the complete video game/fantasy world I suppose the Brewers could’ve ignored as you put it, “the state of their franchise” and traded Yelich as you suggested. In this same make believe fantasy world I suppose they could’ve gotten a half dozen dynamite prospects that would’ve plugged immediately into the lineup so the major league team didn’t miss a beat and actually became much stronger without any growing pains or risk of those prospects failing. Which goes without addressing what contending team would be potentially desperate enough to sell off their future to add a position player

[Eye Black]

Per Jon Morosi...

 

News: Brewers are optimistic Christian Yelich could return to game action before the week is over, after the recent MRI of Yelich's back yielded no revelatory findings.

[adambr2]

Yes in the complete video game/fantasy world I suppose the Brewers could’ve ignored as you put it, “the state of their franchise” and traded Yelich as you suggested. In this same make believe fantasy world I suppose they could’ve gotten a half dozen dynamite prospects that would’ve plugged immediately into the lineup so the major league team didn’t miss a beat and actually became much stronger without any growing pains or risk of those prospects failing. Which goes without addressing what contending team would be potentially desperate enough to sell off their future to add a position player

 

I literally suggested the name of a hypothetical post-2019 contending team in my original reply to you on this in post #73.

 

And when did I ever imply that these hypothetical prospects wouldn't have growing pains or risk failing? Never. I simply disputed your contention that if the Brewers had shopped Yelich post-2019, they would have received less than what they gave up for him. Nothing more.

[Jopal78]

Yes in the complete video game/fantasy world I suppose the Brewers could’ve ignored as you put it, “the state of their franchise” and traded Yelich as you suggested. In this same make believe fantasy world I suppose they could’ve gotten a half dozen dynamite prospects that would’ve plugged immediately into the lineup so the major league team didn’t miss a beat and actually became much stronger without any growing pains or risk of those prospects failing. Which goes without addressing what contending team would be potentially desperate enough to sell off their future to add a position player

 

I literally suggested the name of a hypothetical post-2019 contending team in my original reply to you on this in post #73.

 

And when did I ever imply that these hypothetical prospects wouldn't have growing pains or risk failing? Never. I simply disputed your contention that if the Brewers had shopped Yelich post-2019, they would have received less than what they gave up for him. Nothing more.

 

I know, and I chose to ignore it. How many dynamite prospects did the Padres give up this off-season to reload their team Yu Darvish, Blake Snell, Joe Musgrove? (Luis Patino #3, Blake Hunt #25 for Snell, Hudson Head #20 and David Bednar #30 for Musgrove, Preciado #22 and Mena #23 for Darvish...according to MLB 2019 Top 30 prospects).

 

You're citing a the Padres as a hypothetical example, of a team willing to give up a tasty prospect haul to get a star veteran, when they made three such trades in the last six months and gave up only one player who was in their top ten and amongst the top 100 in the game in the process.

 

You're right the Brewers could've swapped Yelich off after 2019 and gotten a big haul... of some other team's second tier prospects that wouldn't have helped in the short-run and would take years to learn if they help in the long run.

 

(And for what it's worth Miami got Yamamoto plus Brinson #1, Isan Diaz #4, Harrison #20 for Yelich according to Sickels's 2017 list)

[adambr2]

Yes in the complete video game/fantasy world I suppose the Brewers could’ve ignored as you put it, “the state of their franchise” and traded Yelich as you suggested. In this same make believe fantasy world I suppose they could’ve gotten a half dozen dynamite prospects that would’ve plugged immediately into the lineup so the major league team didn’t miss a beat and actually became much stronger without any growing pains or risk of those prospects failing. Which goes without addressing what contending team would be potentially desperate enough to sell off their future to add a position player

 

I literally suggested the name of a hypothetical post-2019 contending team in my original reply to you on this in post #73.

 

And when did I ever imply that these hypothetical prospects wouldn't have growing pains or risk failing? Never. I simply disputed your contention that if the Brewers had shopped Yelich post-2019, they would have received less than what they gave up for him. Nothing more.

 

I know, and I chose to ignore it. How many dynamite prospects did the Padres give up this off-season to reload their team Yu Darvish, Blake Snell, Joe Musgrove? (Luis Patino #3, Blake Hunt #25 for Snell, Hudson Head #20 and David Bednar #30 for Musgrove, Preciado #22 and Mena #23 for Darvish...according to MLB 2019 Top 30 prospects).

 

You're citing a the Padres as a hypothetical example, of a team willing to give up a tasty prospect haul to get a star veteran, when they made three such trades in the last six months and gave up only one player who was in their top ten and amongst the top 100 in the game in the process.

 

You're right the Brewers could've swapped Yelich off after 2019 and gotten a big haul... of some other team's second tier prospects that wouldn't have helped in the short-run and would take years to learn if they help in the long run.

 

(And for what it's worth Miami got Yamamoto plus Brinson #1, Isan Diaz #4, Harrison #20 for Yelich according to Sickels's 2017 list)

 

So you say you chose to ignore my post, then you (falsely) contend later that I didn't address what contending team might be interested? That makes no sense.

 

I'm well aware of what Miami got. Yelich was definitely worth more than what we got after his first two seasons with us. You're comparing apples to oranges with Darvish, Snell and Musgrove. Darvish had a much larger contract. Snell was two years away removed from elite production and Musgrove neither ever had that level of production and had half the control of Yelich.

 

None of the three was a position player coming off two MVP caliber seasons.

[Jopal78]

 

So you say you chose to ignore my post, then you (falsely) contend later that I didn't address what contending team might be interested? That makes no sense.

 

I'm well aware of what Miami got. You're comparing apples to oranges with Darvish, Snell and Musgrove. Darvish had a much larger contract. Snell was two years away removed from elite production and Musgrove neither ever had that level of production and had half the control of Yelich.

 

None of the three was a position player coming off two MVP caliber seasons.

 

So what? Pitchers are worth more than hitters, always. Plus, you need to take a look carefully at the stat sheets and what comparable players are getting paid. Joe Musgrove has a career 1.20 whip, FIP of 3.82 and had multiple seasons of team control left when traded. If he was a free agent he'd be an 18 million dollar a year pitcher.

 

Ditto with Snell, since winning the hardware in 2018 he has a whip of 1.24 and a FIP of 3.65 and he came with three years left on his deal at a bargain price of 40 million dollars.

 

As for Darvish, he was the 2nd best pitcher behind Bauer in the NL last year. He came to San Diego with 3 years and 56 million dollars on his contract after the Cubs kicked in 3 million dollars.

 

With Bauer at 38 million per year, Gerrit Cole at 36 million dollars per year, Scherzer at 34 million Strasburg at 32 million, etc these are bargain contracts the Padres picked up, and they did it all without giving away much of their top level minor leaguers. Thus, the hypothetical that they'd somehow give up a package of top minor league player to get a hitter (albeit a good one) is the stuff of make believe.

[nate82]

It is really hard to trade superstars in baseball and get a return that is as valuable as giving up that superstar.

 

For example for the Brewers to have traded Yelich after 2018 or even 2019 if he wasn't injured would have been asking for the impossible to happen. For the Brewers to get a return on value for Yelich you are talking a Gore, Tatis and one or two more prospects in return type of a trade. I don't believe any team would do that. Why trade away that much cost control for someone like Yelich?

 

At best you would probably get Gore and Abrams for Yelich. That is a lot but probably not the return the Brewers would want. It is just extremely difficult to trade someone like Trout, Yelich and others and get back the value in return that they are providing.

[homer]

 

So you say you chose to ignore my post, then you (falsely) contend later that I didn't address what contending team might be interested? That makes no sense.

 

I'm well aware of what Miami got. You're comparing apples to oranges with Darvish, Snell and Musgrove. Darvish had a much larger contract. Snell was two years away removed from elite production and Musgrove neither ever had that level of production and had half the control of Yelich.

 

None of the three was a position player coming off two MVP caliber seasons.

 

So what? Pitchers are worth more than hitters, always. Plus, you need to take a look carefully at the stat sheets and what comparable players are getting paid. Joe Musgrove has a career 1.20 whip, FIP of 3.82 and had multiple seasons of team control left when traded. If he was a free agent he'd be an 18 million dollar a year pitcher.

 

 

Ditto with Snell, since winning the hardware in 2018 he has a whip of 1.24 and a FIP of 3.65 and he came with three years left on his deal at a bargain price of 40 million dollars.

 

As for Darvish, he was the 2nd best pitcher behind Bauer in the NL last year. He came to San Diego with 3 years and 56 million dollars on his contract after the Cubs kicked in 3 million dollars.

 

With Bauer at 38 million per year, Gerrit Cole at 36 million dollars per year, Scherzer at 34 million Strasburg at 32 million, etc these are bargain contracts the Padres picked up, and they did it all without giving away much of their top level minor leaguers. Thus, the hypothetical that they'd somehow give up a package of top minor league player to get a hitter (albeit a good one) is the stuff of make-believe.

 

 

Tone down the snark.

[adambr2]

I'll leave it at, I strongly believe if the Brewers had been in a rebuilding position and had chosen to publicly shop Christian Yelich, they absolutely could have and would have received stronger offers than what they gave up to the Marlins. It is obviously you prerogative to believe otherwise.

 

I also understand why they extended him instead and enjoy that my team is in a position of contention where they are looking to acquire current great players rather than get rid of them.

[sveumrules]

I'll leave it at, I strongly believe if the Brewers had been in a rebuilding position and had chosen to publicly shop Christian Yelich, they absolutely could have and would have received stronger offers than what they gave up to the Marlins. It is obviously you prerogative to believe otherwise.

 

I also understand why they extended him instead and enjoy that my team is in a position of contention where they are looking to acquire current great players rather than get rid of them.

 

FanGraphs trade value series is a pretty good publicly available proxy of perceived value within the industry & how it evolves over time.

 

The 2017 list was published around the All Star break before we acquired Yelich, he came in #27.

 

The 2018 list was published around the All Star break before Christian broke out, he came in #22.

 

The 2019 list was published around the All Star break with a year of MVP caliber performance & before the broken knee cap, he came in #7.

 

The 2020 list was published in August of 2020 after the injury & contract extension, he came in at #15.

 

Will be interesting to see how much Yelich plays over the next two months, how he performs while on the field & how that impacts his ranking for the 2021 list.

[adambr2]

I'll leave it at, I strongly believe if the Brewers had been in a rebuilding position and had chosen to publicly shop Christian Yelich, they absolutely could have and would have received stronger offers than what they gave up to the Marlins. It is obviously you prerogative to believe otherwise.

 

I also understand why they extended him instead and enjoy that my team is in a position of contention where they are looking to acquire current great players rather than get rid of them.

 

FanGraphs trade value series is a pretty good publicly available proxy of perceived value within the industry & how it evolves over time.

 

The 2017 list was published around the All Star break before we acquired Yelich, he came in #27.

 

The 2018 list was published around the All Star break before Christian broke out, he came in #22.

 

The 2019 list was published around the All Star break with a year of MVP caliber performance & before the broken knee cap, he came in #7.

 

The 2020 list was published in August of 2020 after the injury & contract extension, he came in at #15.

 

Will be interesting to see how much Yelich plays over the next two months, how he performs while on the field & how that impacts his ranking for the 2021 list.

 

That seems about right to me. No doubt it was significantly higher after his 2 years with us where he broke out. I would have thought the extension was a fairly immediate hit to it despite the fact that it was considered team friendly.

[djoctagone]

two consecutive days of batting cage action for yelich.

[markedman5]

[djoctagone]

yelich might be activated tomorrow.

[djoctagone]

things are looking promising for yelich to be activated and in the lineup tonight.

[djoctagone]

yelich has been reinstated from the 10-day injured list.

[markedman5]

[brooks_quichenick]

 

Oh come on, man!

 

I wasn't getting too worked up about Yelich potentially being injury-plagued for the rest of his career here, but I am officially concerned now.

[markedman5]

[Eye Black]

Based on Counsell’s quotes I get the feeling it’s going to be quite awhile until we see Christian Yelich playing baseball again.

 

Per Adam McCalvy...

 

Counsell on Yelich: "Last night told us that he's not going to be able to do this on a daily basis. And so we need to stop and completely resolve this. ... At this point, we don't have an answer."

 

They will spend the next few days seeking "avenues to get answers."

[Simba2020]

For those who thought his back wasn't going to become a chronic thing, would you care to reconsider?