Brewers' Offense

[adambr2]

- Narvaez was horrific last season and has been awesome for one month. You can't proclaim "too early to tell" on everyone bad and then declare a move awesome after one good month from a guy with 60 bad games last year.

 

- Avi was also very bad last year. If you want to throw out '20 and say he's basically been as advertised this year I can understand that.

 

- Grisham was awesome in the minors in '19 which got him promoted, he was really good for us, was awesome last year, and has been awesome this year. I know Brewer fans don't want to admit it, but he's probably just really good. We can rationalize it all we want, and obviously you can never say 100% what will happen but at the moment it looks like we gave up a really good player for a guy who has yet to show the ability to outplay Arcia.

 

- Smoak, Sogard, Morrison, etc, are guys that were signed to be starters. You can't throw around 10-15M on guys like that and then just dismiss them as roster filler guys when I call them out as bad signings. You don't spend that on roster filler. Jace Peterson and Daniel Robertson are journeyman guys that you fill rosters with, that is why I did not mention them as bad signings. Not comparable to the names I mentioned. Smoak/Sogard/Morrison/Healy/Holt were bad deals.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I'm encouraged by the start of Zach Green at AAA. In his last 78 games at AAA he's hit 28 home runs and driven in 74 runs. He didn't play at all in 2020, but he seems to have picked up where he left off. Given the needs at the corner infield spots for a RH power bat, I can't believe they'll wait too long before they add him to the major league roster.

 

Other than that, it's hard to find too much help internally.

 

Agreed. Green has carried over his very strong spring training stats so far. If he continues to swing a hot bat, and the MLB offense continues to struggle, he should be up in short order. He only just turned 27, too, so it isn't like he's some AAAA guy who is owning minor league pitching. He deserves a shot.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

- Narvaez was horrific last season and has been awesome for one month. You can't proclaim "too early to tell" on everyone bad and then declare a move awesome after one good month from a guy with 60 bad games last year.

 

- Avi was also very bad last year. If you want to throw out '20 and say he's basically been as advertised this year I can understand that.

 

- Grisham was awesome in the minors in '19 which got him promoted, he was really good for us, was awesome last year, and has been awesome this year. I know Brewer fans don't want to admit it, but he's probably just really good. We can rationalize it all we want, and obviously you can never say 100% what will happen but at the moment it looks like we gave up a really good player for a guy who has yet to show the ability to outplay Arcia.

 

- Smoak, Sogard, Morrison, etc, are guys that were signed to be starters. You can't throw around 10-15M on guys like that and then just dismiss them as roster filler guys when I call them out as bad signings. You don't spend that on roster filler. Jace Peterson and Daniel Robertson are journeyman guys that you fill rosters with, that is why I did not mention them as bad signings. Not comparable to the names I mentioned. Smoak/Sogard/Morrison/Healy/Holt were bad deals.

 

One minor correction - Morrison was signed to a minor league deal, and hit his way onto the ballclub with a good spring. He was always nothing more than a "lightning in a bottle" type flyer. I agree on Smoak, Sogard, Gyorko and Holt, though. All four were signed for relatively inexpensive deals, but were expected to be big contributors, and outside of Gyorko (who the least was expected from) they were failures.

[pacopete4]

Using 2020 to be grumpy about Narvaez and Garcia is odd to me. Both have been just fine or better in 2021. Hopefully a healthy return for Narvaez as he was beginning to be a real difference maker.

[adambr2]

Using 2020 to be grumpy about Narvaez and Garcia is odd to me. Both have been just fine or better in 2021. Hopefully a healthy return for Narvaez as he was beginning to be a real difference maker.

 

It seems odder to me to just throw out a 60 game sample from last season as irrelevant but yet cite a 30 game sample this season as a success. The production from last year still mattered. Since we were a playoff team it could have mattered a lot.

 

The same logic applies to guys like Grisham and Davies. Yes, you can't close the book on the trade, but you have to take into the account the production they've already given, too. Grisham and Davies would have been crucial pieces for us last year, but we did not have them, and Urias and Lauer gave us no return on investment last year.

[MrTPlush]

- Narvaez was horrific last season and has been awesome for one month. You can't proclaim "too early to tell" on everyone bad and then declare a move awesome after one good month from a guy with 60 bad games last year.

 

- Avi was also very bad last year. If you want to throw out '20 and say he's basically been as advertised this year I can understand that.

 

- Grisham was awesome in the minors in '19 which got him promoted, he was really good for us, was awesome last year, and has been awesome this year. I know Brewer fans don't want to admit it, but he's probably just really good. We can rationalize it all we want, and obviously you can never say 100% what will happen but at the moment it looks like we gave up a really good player for a guy who has yet to show the ability to outplay Arcia.

 

- Smoak, Sogard, Morrison, etc, are guys that were signed to be starters. You can't throw around 10-15M on guys like that and then just dismiss them as roster filler guys when I call them out as bad signings. You don't spend that on roster filler. Jace Peterson and Daniel Robertson are journeyman guys that you fill rosters with, that is why I did not mention them as bad signings. Not comparable to the names I mentioned. Smoak/Sogard/Morrison/Healy/Holt were bad deals.

 

One minor correction - Morrison was signed to a minor league deal, and hit his way onto the ballclub with a good spring. He was always nothing more than a "lightning in a bottle" type flyer. I agree on Smoak, Sogard, Gyorko and Holt, though. All four were signed for relatively inexpensive deals, but were expected to be big contributors, and outside of Gyorko (who the least was expected from) they were failures.

 

And this last offseason he brought Vogelbach, Bradley Jr., and Shaw on to be big contributors and 2/3 have been disaster so far. Shaw has had big hits, but even he is barely keeping his OPS over .700.

 

I expect some dumpster diving to some extent, but Stearns is having to do it at too many spots on the field and almost every one of those attempts is a total failure. Then the rare time he invests a bit more capital into someone he just gets so little (Garcia in 2020, Narvaez in 2020, Bradley Jr. , and Cain every year except 2018). Hopefully Garcia/Narvaez provide something this year, but jeez...he has got to be better at finding offense.

[adambr2]

Morrison is correct, I should not have counted him.

 

I stand by Smoak and Sogard as being bad, and not minor signings, however.

[adambr2]

Yep. Shaw is basically exactly as expected this year. Perfect guy to have come off the bench late in a game or as a defensive replacement.

 

Far less than ideal of a guy to be starting daily and in a run producing spot in the lineup.

[pacopete4]

Using 2020 to be grumpy about Narvaez and Garcia is odd to me. Both have been just fine or better in 2021. Hopefully a healthy return for Narvaez as he was beginning to be a real difference maker.

 

It seems odder to me to just throw out a 60 game sample from last season as irrelevant but yet cite a 30 game sample this season as a success. The production from last year still mattered. Since we were a playoff team it could have mattered a lot.

 

The same logic applies to guys like Grisham and Davies. Yes, you can't close the book on the trade, but you have to take into the account the production they've already given, too. Grisham and Davies would have been crucial pieces for us last year, but we did not have them, and Urias and Lauer gave us no return on investment last year.

 

I throw them out, not because it didn't matter to the Brewer's success, but because it is a terrible way of gauging a player. You are telling me that you will look past their prior seasons of success and the success that both have had this season because you are disappointed in their 2020 year?

[SomewhereInTime]

- Narvaez was horrific last season and has been awesome for one month. You can't proclaim "too early to tell" on everyone bad and then declare a move awesome after one good month from a guy with 60 bad games last year.

 

- Avi was also very bad last year. If you want to throw out '20 and say he's basically been as advertised this year I can understand that.

 

- Grisham was awesome in the minors in '19 which got him promoted, he was really good for us, was awesome last year, and has been awesome this year. I know Brewer fans don't want to admit it, but he's probably just really good. We can rationalize it all we want, and obviously you can never say 100% what will happen but at the moment it looks like we gave up a really good player for a guy who has yet to show the ability to outplay Arcia.

 

- Smoak, Sogard, Morrison, etc, are guys that were signed to be starters. You can't throw around 10-15M on guys like that and then just dismiss them as roster filler guys when I call them out as bad signings. You don't spend that on roster filler. Jace Peterson and Daniel Robertson are journeyman guys that you fill rosters with, that is why I did not mention them as bad signings. Not comparable to the names I mentioned. Smoak/Sogard/Morrison/Healy/Holt were bad deals.

 

One minor correction - Morrison was signed to a minor league deal, and hit his way onto the ballclub with a good spring. He was always nothing more than a "lightning in a bottle" type flyer. I agree on Smoak, Sogard, Gyorko and Holt, though. All four were signed for relatively inexpensive deals, but were expected to be big contributors, and outside of Gyorko (who the least was expected from) they were failures.

 

And this last offseason he brought Vogelbach, Bradley Jr., and Shaw on to be big contributors and 2/3 have been disaster so far. Shaw has had big hits, but even he is barely keeping his OPS over .700.

 

I expect some dumpster diving to some extent, but Stearns is having to do it at too many spots on the field and almost every one of those attempts is a total failure. Then the rare time he invests a bit more capital into someone he just gets so little (Garcia in 2020, Narvaez in 2020, Bradley Jr. , and Cain every year except 2018). Hopefully Garcia/Narvaez provide something this year, but jeez...he has got to be better at finding offense.

 

Vogelbach barely made the team and was supposed to be a bench bat only, Bradley Jr was brought in to be the 4th outfielder, and Shaw was supposed to platoon in a four man 3B SS platoon with Urias, Arcia, and Robertson.

[pacopete4]

Good point SomewhereInTime. Anything that has gone bad for the Brewers just about has.

[adambr2]

Using 2020 to be grumpy about Narvaez and Garcia is odd to me. Both have been just fine or better in 2021. Hopefully a healthy return for Narvaez as he was beginning to be a real difference maker.

 

It seems odder to me to just throw out a 60 game sample from last season as irrelevant but yet cite a 30 game sample this season as a success. The production from last year still mattered. Since we were a playoff team it could have mattered a lot.

 

The same logic applies to guys like Grisham and Davies. Yes, you can't close the book on the trade, but you have to take into the account the production they've already given, too. Grisham and Davies would have been crucial pieces for us last year, but we did not have them, and Urias and Lauer gave us no return on investment last year.

 

I throw them out, not because it didn't matter to the Brewer's success, but because it is a terrible way of gauging a player. You are telling me that you will look past their prior season of success and the success that both have had this season because you are disappointed in their 2020 year?

 

What? I'm talking about the moves Stearns has done the last couple years and evaluating them, that was my original point. Obviously what they did in 2020 counts toward that evaluation when judging if a player is a good signing or bad one, and what they do this year overall, including what they've done so far, counts toward it as well. I'm not looking past anything, not does it have anything to do with how I feel about 2020 alone. The cumulative body of work since these acquisitions has been below par to this point in time.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Yep. Shaw is basically exactly as expected this year. Perfect guy to have come off the bench late in a game or as a defensive replacement.

 

Far less than ideal of a guy to be starting daily and in a run producing spot in the lineup.

 

I don't think it was ever the Brewers' intention to have Shaw regularly in a run-producing spot, and if Yelich hadn't gotten hurt and Hiura performed anywhere close to expectations, he never would have been. I don't mind him at all as a guy batting #6 in a lineup on a somewhat regular basis. Probably not as much as he has been playing, though.

[MrTPlush]

Vogelbach barely made the team and was supposed to be a bench bat only, Bradley Jr was brought in to be the 4th outfielder, and Shaw was supposed to platoon in a four man 3B SS platoon with Urias, Arcia, and Robertson.

 

Daniel Vogelbach would have never been a Brewer if Stearns didn't create such a horrid 1B situation last year.

 

Bradley Jr. was brought in to get pretty much just as many ABs as any other outfield...except maybe Yelich. He isn't a true 4th OFer.

 

You can say these guys weren't intended to be major contributors, fine, but really it is just another example of how bad Stearns has been at his job of finding reliable positional players because these bench bats keep finding their way into the starting line up on a daily basis even though they aren't playing very well themselves.

[pacopete4]

What? I'm talking about the moves Stearns has done the last couple years and evaluating them, that was my original point. Obviously what they did in 2020 counts toward that evaluation when judging if a player is a good signing or bad one, and what they do this year overall, including what they've done so far, counts toward it as well. I'm not looking past anything, not does it have anything to do with how I feel about 2020 alone. The cumulative body of work since these acquisitions has been below par to this point in time.

 

Oh, well I'll butt out then. Evaluating 60 games of a covid season on top of this mess Stearns has had to navigate for 30 games is just nonsense to me so it'll do me or you any good here to continue. The variables alone are just... yeah.

[adambr2]

You cannot spend $14M on a OFer and say "well he was just signed to be the 4th OFer."

 

That is either an embarrassingly bad use of resources or expectations were much higher than a 4th OFer.

[adambr2]

What? I'm talking about the moves Stearns has done the last couple years and evaluating them, that was my original point. Obviously what they did in 2020 counts toward that evaluation when judging if a player is a good signing or bad one, and what they do this year overall, including what they've done so far, counts toward it as well. I'm not looking past anything, not does it have anything to do with how I feel about 2020 alone. The cumulative body of work since these acquisitions has been below par to this point in time.

 

Oh, well I'll butt out then. Evaluating 60 games of a covid season on top of this mess Stearns has had to navigate for 30 games is just nonsense to me so it'll do me or you any good here to continue. The variables alone are just... yeah.

 

Ok, I'm not really following. Yes 2020 was a weird season. Yes 2021 has had a lot of injuries so far. We can't judge whether individual moves look bad or good because of that? That doesn't make much sense to me.

 

I'm not saying fire the guy. His track record has earned him some misses. I'm just pointing out that the moves since '19 look on the poorer side so far. That's it.

[PeaveyFury]

You cannot spend $14M on a OFer and say "well he was just signed to be the 4th OFer."

 

That is either an embarrassingly bad use of resources or expectations were much higher than a 4th OFer.

 

What starting spot did you think he was being handed when signed?

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

In the end it is probably a bit of a mix of not acquiring the right fits for the roster, and the guys they do acquire failing to meet even the minimum expectations. Yeah, Stearns deserves some of the blame, but the blame on guys with track records as average to decent major league players like Garcia and Narvaez hitting like Little Leaguers last year, and Bradley Jr. this year, has to fall with them as well. That point was potentially driven home with Narvaez and Garcia, as both have looked much better this year, albeit in a small sample. We'll see what Bradley can do to prove his detractors wrong. I never expected the .800+ he put up last year, but I certainly expected better than the abysmal .558 he put up so far. Honestly I was expecting anywhere from a .725-750 with Gold Glove defense, and anything more would have been gravy. To say he's been a disappointment so far is an understatement.

[MrTPlush]

You cannot spend $14M on a OFer and say "well he was just signed to be the 4th OFer."

 

That is either an embarrassingly bad use of resources or expectations were much higher than a 4th OFer.

 

What starting spot did you think he was being handed when signed?

 

He was intended to be a 4th starter...not a bench bat that starts occasionally.

 

There is a difference between Jackie Bradley Jr. being brought in as the 4th guy versus just putting Tyrone Taylor on the roster as the 4th guy...or like a Kirk Nieuwenhuis or Ramon Flores.

[Warning Track Power]

The player that bothers me most of the available players the Brewers could have acquired is Nolan Arenado. Take away him going to the Cardinals, it isn't about him going to a rival. It is about the massive hole that was 3B in 2020, the lack of prospects at the position, and the relatively low cost it took for the Cardinals to acquire him. The prospects were easily matched by the Brewers and the Rockies threw in $51m. As a result, he is owed 7 years and $163m. That would have been money well spent and solved a massive organizational hole for the next half decade. Spending money on players such as this is a result of continual poor drafting of hitters and if the Brewers don't want to spend money like this start drafting better.

 

The fans are going to eventually tire of seeing bargain shopping of Justin Smoak, Logan Morrison, Pablo Reyes, Jace Peterson, Eric Sogard, Luke Maile, Billy McKinney playing such significant roles on offense.

[trwi7]

You cannot spend $14M on a OFer and say "well he was just signed to be the 4th OFer."

 

That is either an embarrassingly bad use of resources or expectations were much higher than a 4th OFer.

 

What starting spot did you think he was being handed when signed?

 

Competing for the starting spot of the $10 million corner OF that Stearns signed that also didn't hit which is probably why Stearns felt the need to spend a ton of money on Bradley in the first place.

[MrTPlush]

7/$163mil is a lot of money for a guy who is already 30 years old and a small market team already saddled with a Yelich contract that already isn't giving great results.

[SomewhereInTime]

Vogelbach barely made the team and was supposed to be a bench bat only, Bradley Jr was brought in to be the 4th outfielder, and Shaw was supposed to platoon in a four man 3B SS platoon with Urias, Arcia, and Robertson.

 

Daniel Vogelbach would have never been a Brewer if Stearns didn't create such a horrid 1B situation last year.

 

Bradley Jr. was brought in to get pretty much just as many ABs as any other outfield...except maybe Yelich. He isn't a true 4th OFer.

 

You can say these guys weren't intended to be major contributors, fine, but really it is just another example of how bad Stearns has been at his job of finding reliable positional players because these bench bats keep finding their way into the starting line up on a daily basis even though they aren't playing very well themselves.

 

I don't think firstbase was supposed to be a horrid situation, Huira was counted on as the second best bat in the lineup. Unfortunately that has been a complete disaster, worse than even the biggest pessimist could have predicted. Travis Shaw playing everyday at 3b and putting up a .720 ops isn't really a huge problem. In the outfield we've had massive injuries. If Yelich were in the lineup everyday you could live with a part time centerfielder next to him with a below average bat.

 

Bottom line, if you would have told me before the year that we'd have a bottom 5 in all of baseball offense with Yelich injured and Huira demoted to AAA I would have believed you.

[PeaveyFury]

You cannot spend $14M on a OFer and say "well he was just signed to be the 4th OFer."

 

That is either an embarrassingly bad use of resources or expectations were much higher than a 4th OFer.

 

What starting spot did you think he was being handed when signed?

 

He was intended to be a 4th starter...not a bench bat that starts occasionally.

 

That's the definition of quibbling over semantics.