Brewers' Offense

[brewcrewdue80]

Haines has to be fired. Definitely not CC. The offense wouldn't feel bad if Yelich batted near 2018-2019 levels.

But my number 1 reason to fire him is that once again the batters take approaches and such. 11 of 12 batters not swinging at strike 1 is a clear indication of taking pitches for a strategy and it didn't work. It's not the first time all season and truthfully very consistent on that failing approach. But 11 of 12? Brutal. And this may have a direct effect towards Yelich who has taken such a passive approach at the plate, you would think he's a pitcher hoping to be walked.

[Thurston Fluff]

Haines has to be fired. Definitely not CC. The offense wouldn't feel bad if Yelich batted near 2018-2019 levels.

But my number 1 reason to fire him is that once again the batters take approaches and such. 11 of 12 batters not swinging at strike 1 is a clear indication of taking pitches for a strategy and it didn't work. It's not the first time all season and truthfully very consistent on that failing approach. But 11 of 12? Brutal. And this may have a direct effect towards Yelich who has taken such a passive approach at the plate, you would think he's a pitcher hoping to be walked.

 

Is that due to the coach or a team philosophy? I know the team is geared to sabre and I think the sabre approach to hitting is in a transitional phase right now. Batters for the last decade didn't care about striking out, didn't learn to use the whole field and generally swing for the fences every pitch. Suddenly pitchers learned to throw harder, use the spin of their pitches better and the defenses learned some hitters can't hit certain parts of the field if they got to hit off a tee and adjusted accordingly. Suddenly the types of hitters being drafted and the way they're developed have to change. Maybe we haven't figured out what to look for or how to develop that yet.

That isn't to say I disagree with a statistical analysis approach. Just saying that approach needs to be adjusted as the league adjusts.

[Simba2020]

Haines has to be fired. Definitely not CC. The offense wouldn't feel bad if Yelich batted near 2018-2019 levels.

But my number 1 reason to fire him is that once again the batters take approaches and such. 11 of 12 batters not swinging at strike 1 is a clear indication of taking pitches for a strategy and it didn't work. It's not the first time all season and truthfully very consistent on that failing approach. But 11 of 12? Brutal. And this may have a direct effect towards Yelich who has taken such a passive approach at the plate, you would think he's a pitcher hoping to be walked.

 

Is that due to the coach or a team philosophy? I know the team is geared to sabre and I think the sabre approach to hitting is in a transitional phase right now. Batters for the last decade didn't care about striking out, didn't learn to use the whole field and generally swing for the fences every pitch. Suddenly pitchers learned to throw harder, use the spin of their pitches better and the defenses learned some hitters can't hit certain parts of the field if they got to hit off a tee and adjusted accordingly. Suddenly the types of hitters being drafted and the way they're developed have to change. Maybe we haven't figured out what to look for or how to develop that yet.

That isn't to say I disagree with a statistical analysis approach. Just saying that approach needs to be adjusted as the league adjusts.

I wonder about that too. Stearns has been weened on strikeouts. Houston was 1-2-2 in Ks during his tenure there and the Brewers have been 1-1-7-5-2-7. There has been some minor improvement the past few years but it continues to be a glaring issue.

[brewcrewdue80]

Haines has to be fired. Definitely not CC. The offense wouldn't feel bad if Yelich batted near 2018-2019 levels.

But my number 1 reason to fire him is that once again the batters take approaches and such. 11 of 12 batters not swinging at strike 1 is a clear indication of taking pitches for a strategy and it didn't work. It's not the first time all season and truthfully very consistent on that failing approach. But 11 of 12? Brutal. And this may have a direct effect towards Yelich who has taken such a passive approach at the plate, you would think he's a pitcher hoping to be walked.

 

Is that due to the coach or a team philosophy? I know the team is geared to sabre and I think the sabre approach to hitting is in a transitional phase right now. Batters for the last decade didn't care about striking out, didn't learn to use the whole field and generally swing for the fences every pitch. Suddenly pitchers learned to throw harder, use the spin of their pitches better and the defenses learned some hitters can't hit certain parts of the field if they got to hit off a tee and adjusted accordingly. Suddenly the types of hitters being drafted and the way they're developed have to change. Maybe we haven't figured out what to look for or how to develop that yet.

That isn't to say I disagree with a statistical analysis approach. Just saying that approach needs to be adjusted as the league adjusts.

Team philosophy or not. Haines needs to take the fall for this season's putrid offense and not getting Yelich or JBJ a single month that approached respectable for expectations this season. Whiff after whiff. Right on through to postseason where we Kd what 50pct? Of PAs. 2, 0, 0, 4. Somebody has to be fired. Tired of hearing CC say that was some good pitching and we have to do a better job of putting the ball in play. It's especially concerning this approach with some Elite pitching to 3TO and not manufacture some runs with bunting two runners over to 2nd and 3rd. The fact that Yelich wouldn't bunt more when seeing the shift. A LHB should take that free base 50pct of the time or more depending on outs in the inning. One who can steal 2b 80pct or more of the time even more so.

[MrTPlush]

May not be Haines fault, but we can definitely confirm Haines didn't really have a positive impact. When it comes to MLB coaches that is pretty easy grounds for removal.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I hope Haines does get fired just so everyone can see that a new hitting coach won't do squat for an offense full of replacement-level hitters.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I hope Haines does get fired just so everyone can see that a new hitting coach won't do squat for an offense full of replacement-level hitters.

 

That will unfortunately be the next guy's fault. Firing the hitting coach is quite possibly the lowest hanging fruit of baseball fan complaints.

[brewers888]

I hope Haines does get fired just so everyone can see that a new hitting coach won't do squat for an offense full of replacement-level hitters.

 

That will unfortunately be the next guy's fault. Firing the hitting coach is quite possibly the lowest hanging fruit of baseball fan complaints.

 

What is the argument for keeping Haines. The offense has been pretty bad with him as the hitting coach and several guys including the franchise player in Yelich have badly regressed. I too blame the hitters who just aren't good but Haines has to take the fall when there is nothing saying he is good at his job.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Yelich situation alone is probably enough to justify bringing in a renowned hitting coach if one is out there. I just doubt it makes much of a difference, if at all. But with the pitching staff we have, any small improvement in the offense could be big. I'm fine with firing Haines. Just feel pretty sure it's a talent problem.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I hope Haines does get fired just so everyone can see that a new hitting coach won't do squat for an offense full of replacement-level hitters.

 

That will unfortunately be the next guy's fault. Firing the hitting coach is quite possibly the lowest hanging fruit of baseball fan complaints.

 

What is the argument for keeping Haines. The offense has been pretty bad with him as the hitting coach and several guys including the franchise player in Yelich have badly regressed. I too blame the hitters who just aren't good but Haines has to take the fall when there is nothing saying he is good at his job.

 

Where was I arguing to keep Haines? Replace him ... keep him ... it doesn't really matter either way. Just remember, some of the same posters calling to dump Haines wanted Chris Hook railroaded out of town back in 2019 too.

[dlk9s]

Not CC fault either, but I would be fine if they moved on with a new manager. That's pro sports, sometimes you just need to shake things up.

 

lol what. He's arguably the best manager in MLB.

[ThisIsMyCrew]

I wouldn’t be shocked to see Narvaez traded. Cuts a bit in costs and he really tanked in the 2nd half.

[mtsportsfan]

Is cc the best manager ? Maybe . He had a pretty bad final three weeks and a terrible playoff . I still think he is one of the best managers the game today.

I wonder if the rule changes concerning relief pitchers having too pitch to three batters affected the way he managed and whether he will adjust to the new rules better. Probably the wrong thread , but oh well !

[TURBO]

Is cc the best manager ? Maybe . He had a pretty bad final three weeks and a terrible playoff . I still think he is one of the best managers the game today.

I wonder if the rule changes concerning relief pitchers having too pitch to three batters affected the way he managed and whether he will adjust to the new rules better. Probably the wrong thread , but oh well !

 

3 innings? I think you mean 3 batters...

[JohnBriggs12]

Nobody was more disappointing with the bat in the NLDS than Kolton Wong and his .067/.176/.067 line. Guess we shouldn't have been too surprised. Except for 2014, he's been pretty awful in the postseason. The last 3 years, he's just 6 for 43. I wouldn't mind the Brewers finding an every day 3B and moving Urias to 2B and dealing Wong.

[Soupbone]

Interesting idea Briggs. Wong should be very dealable if that’s a word. Have to find that third baseman first. Escobar? Gonna be a great off-season.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I'd hate to trade Wong based on a 4 game sample.

 

Kershaw has had some stinky playoff performances and the Dodgers don't seem to be in a rush to move him.

[Soupbone]

Dodgers not worried about money. We might be.

[DuWayne Steurer]

has nothing to do with money. Wong has been worth what he's paid. trading him based on a 4 game sample doesn't make a whole lotta sense.

[FVBrewerFan]

Not CC fault either, but I would be fine if they moved on with a new manager. That's pro sports, sometimes you just need to shake things up.

 

lol what. He's arguably the best manager in MLB.

 

It's impossible to prove who the best manager is, or even who the great ones are. Great or not, sometimes a change at the top is the shock to the system that gets you over the top.

 

That said, I'm not advocating they move on from CC. I would be fine with it. Teams and fans get wrapped up in whether a manager deserves to be fired. Deserve has nothing to do with it.

[brewmann04]

The offense needs to be changed an upgraded

[MrTPlush]

Trading Wong to move Urias to 2B really makes no sense when you think about it. What exactly are you gaining? You save money by trading Wong just to turn around and spend a lot more just to replace him on the roster. Is this purely just to find someone with better postseason numbers? If so, no thanks.

[roadcrew3]

Not CC fault either, but I would be fine if they moved on with a new manager. That's pro sports, sometimes you just need to shake things up.

 

lol what. He's arguably the best manager in MLB.

 

It's impossible to prove who the best manager is, or even who the great ones are. Great or not, sometimes a change at the top is the shock to the system that gets you over the top.

 

That said, I'm not advocating they move on from CC. I would be fine with it. Teams and fans get wrapped up in whether a manager deserves to be fired. Deserve has nothing to do with it.

 

Firing somebody just to make a move is a terrible practice. Counsell is one of the best managers in the game - few, if any, managers have gotten more from their roster, with less talent, then CC has in the last 4 years. His moves in the playoffs didn't work out, that's part of the game, but I don't think his seat is even the slightest bit warm.

 

Easy to feel like the grass is greener on the other side. A lot of people hear advocating for Haines to be let go. Let's not forget the hitting coach before him was Darnell Coles. The replacement isn't always an upgrade to the guy you let go.

[TURBO]

 

Easy to feel like the grass is greener on the other side. A lot of people hear advocating for Haines to be let go. Let's not forget the hitting coach before him was Darnell Coles. The replacement isn't always an upgrade to the guy you let go.

 

Ok, but we can't just sit on that as a way to do business either.

 

I think it's ridiculous to want Counsell gone, but Haines is 100% justifiable.

 

Not getting rid of someone because we might hire someone who isn't any better is a strange way to think imo. If that is the case, the ones doing the hiring need to rethink how they run the show.

[roadcrew3]

 

Easy to feel like the grass is greener on the other side. A lot of people hear advocating for Haines to be let go. Let's not forget the hitting coach before him was Darnell Coles. The replacement isn't always an upgrade to the guy you let go.

 

Ok, but we can't just sit on that as a way to do business either.

 

I think it's ridiculous to want Counsell gone, but Haines is 100% justifiable.

 

Not getting rid of someone because we might hire someone who isn't any better is a strange way to think imo. If that is the case, the ones doing the hiring need to rethink how they run the show.

 

To clarify - I wasn't intending to offer support for Haines. I am in agreement that a move needs to be made there. I was trying to make the point to those who want Counsell gone that making a move just to make a move has 0 guarantees of yielding success, and in reality there is probably better odds the replacement you bring in will be worse than what you had. Example being a few years ago when a move was warranted i.e. firing Darnell Coles, the replacement they brought in hasn't been any better.