Brewers' Offense

[jerichoholicninja]

I don't know why people always equate "fix the offense" to "throw gobs of money at free agents". They are not the same thing.

[brewers888]

Its quite the problem that close to half the payroll is being spent on our outfielders with Garcia being the only one who had even a mediocre season with the bat.

[jonescm128]

I don't know why people always equate "fix the offense" to "throw gobs of money at free agents". They are not the same thing.

 

What?

 

They can be the same thing if you throw gobs of money at the right guys.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I don't know why people always equate "fix the offense" to "throw gobs of money at free agents". They are not the same thing.

 

What?

 

They can be the same thing if you throw gobs of money at the right guys.

 

How'd that work out for the Mets? How 'bout the Phillies? Or the Reds?

[brewers888]

No one talks about it but this organization hasn't drafted and developed a big time hitter since Braun. Once again we didn't have one everyday player drafted by the team unless you count Cain who was reaquired as a free agent. Stearns has done an incredible job putting together the best pitching staff in team history but the lineup was clearly the worst of any playoff team and not nearly good enough.

[jonescm128]

I don't know why people always equate "fix the offense" to "throw gobs of money at free agents". They are not the same thing.

 

What?

 

They can be the same thing if you throw gobs of money at the right guys.

 

How'd that work out for the Mets? How 'bout the Phillies? Or the Reds?

 

Okay what is your angle here? Bryce Harper and Nick Castellanos have been great. Lindor hasn't lived up to that contract yet. I can cherry pick good contracts and bad contracts across the entire league for arguments sake but I'm not sure what your argument is. I said it can be the same thing if you throw a lot of money at the right guys. If we got Kris Bryant on a multi year deal and he consistently gives you .850 -.900 OPS seasons then how is that not worth it?

[jerichoholicninja]

I don't know why people always equate "fix the offense" to "throw gobs of money at free agents". They are not the same thing.

 

What?

 

They can be the same thing if you throw gobs of money at the right guys.

 

Trade Hader. As much as no one wants to, one of Burnes or Woodruff will need to be traded at some point too. Neither of those involve giving bloated contracts to aging free agents.

[jonescm128]

No one talks about it but this organization hasn't drafted and developed a big time hitter since Braun. Once again we didn't have one everyday player drafted by the team unless you count Cain who was reaquired as a free agent. Stearns has done an incredible job putting together the best pitching staff in team history but the lineup was clearly the worst of any playoff team and not nearly good enough.

 

Totally agree. If I had to choose I would rather have great pitching development as that keeps you competitive for longer. We lived through the opposite. We have some promising talent in the lower minors but thats still a few years away.

[jonescm128]

I don't know why people always equate "fix the offense" to "throw gobs of money at free agents". They are not the same thing.

 

What?

 

They can be the same thing if you throw gobs of money at the right guys.

 

Trade Hader. As much as no one wants to, one of Burnes or Woodruff will need to be traded at some point too. Neither of those involve giving bloated contracts to aging free agents.

 

I think he definitely gets traded but not sure it happens now. I dont think trading the best reliever in the game with two more years of control is the smart thing to do with the window we have to compete now. But if you want the biggest haul for him it will have to be for a year or more of control. Id guess it happens after next year. Not sure you can just let him walk for a comp pick.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Okay what is your angle here? Bryce Harper and Nick Castellanos have been great. Lindor hasn't lived up to that contract yet. I can cherry pick good contracts and bad contracts across the entire league for arguments sake but I'm not sure what your argument is. I said it can be the same thing if you throw a lot of money at the right guys. If we got Kris Bryant on a multi year deal and he consistently gives you .850 -.900 OPS seasons then how is that not worth it?

 

The point is there is not infinite gobs of money to throw around. You only get so many bites at the free agency apple unless you are a team like the Dodgers or Yankees. So when you sign players to big free agent deals, you are taking a huge risk that they will continue to perform at the same level that earned them that deal to begin with. Yelich is a prime example of this. They signed him to a huge extension, and his performance has tanked ever since. That's the risk. They've signed guys like Garcia, Wong and JBJ to what wouldn't be classified as huge deals, but large enough deals that they make an impact on the team's financial flexibility, and those contracts have varied from being downright bad so far (JBJ) to partially working out (Garcia bad in 2020, better in 2021, but non-existent in the playoffs), to mostly working out (Wong was very good in the regular season, but somewhat disappeared in the playoffs). Sure, we could sign Kris Bryant to a huge multi-year offer, but you really don't know if you are getting the MVP level Bryant of a few years ago and what he did pre-trade, or the injured, terrible version we saw in 2020. If you get the bad version, it's a sunk cost that is nearly impossible to fix.

 

That doesn't mean that it is prudent to live in fear and sit on your hands in free agency. But just that there is plenty of inherent risk in free agency that simply is more complex than just throwing gobs of money at to fix.

[jonescm128]

Okay what is your angle here? Bryce Harper and Nick Castellanos have been great. Lindor hasn't lived up to that contract yet. I can cherry pick good contracts and bad contracts across the entire league for arguments sake but I'm not sure what your argument is. I said it can be the same thing if you throw a lot of money at the right guys. If we got Kris Bryant on a multi year deal and he consistently gives you .850 -.900 OPS seasons then how is that not worth it?

 

The point is there is not infinite gobs of money to throw around. You only get so many bites at the free agency apple unless you are a team like the Dodgers or Yankees. So when you sign players to big free agent deals, you are taking a huge risk that they will continue to perform at the same level that earned them that deal to begin with. Yelich is a prime example of this. They signed him to a huge extension, and his performance has tanked ever since. That's the risk. They've signed guys like Garcia, Wong and JBJ to what wouldn't be classified as huge deals, but large enough deals that they make an impact on the team's financial flexibility, and those contracts have varied from being downright bad to far (JBJ) to partially working out (Garcia bad in 2020, better in 2021, but non-existent in the playoffs), to mostly working out (Wong was very good in the regular season, but somewhat disappeared in the playoffs). Sure, we could sign Kris Bryant to a huge multi-year offer, but you really don't know if you are getting the MVP level Bryant of a few years ago and what he did pre-trade, or the injured, terrible version we saw in 2020. If you get the bad version, it's a sunk cost that is nearly impossible to fix.

 

Well, sure. There is always a risk when signing free agents. And I don't mean gobs of money in the terms of New York or LA gobs of money. But if we have identified any trends from Stearns years in Milwaukee its that he is more willing to spend on bats than he is on arms. He isn't going to go high years high dollars with Yelich on the books but an impact bat on a 2/3 year deal still gives you financial flexibility. If what we heard about Justin Turner is true then our offer was very similar to the Dodgers 2yr/$34 million deal he took. Those are the types of deals I am referring too. Higher dollars, short years. The trouble is finding players who are willing to take that. They usually want security. Different when its for a 36 year old Justin Turner...

 

Then there are the deals like Grandal and Marcus Semien took. 1yr/$18m. Those are the types of FA deals that are in our wheelhouse.

[jonescm128]

Okay what is your angle here? Bryce Harper and Nick Castellanos have been great. Lindor hasn't lived up to that contract yet. I can cherry pick good contracts and bad contracts across the entire league for arguments sake but I'm not sure what your argument is. I said it can be the same thing if you throw a lot of money at the right guys. If we got Kris Bryant on a multi year deal and he consistently gives you .850 -.900 OPS seasons then how is that not worth it?

 

The point is there is not infinite gobs of money to throw around. You only get so many bites at the free agency apple unless you are a team like the Dodgers or Yankees. So when you sign players to big free agent deals, you are taking a huge risk that they will continue to perform at the same level that earned them that deal to begin with. Yelich is a prime example of this. They signed him to a huge extension, and his performance has tanked ever since. That's the risk. They've signed guys like Garcia, Wong and JBJ to what wouldn't be classified as huge deals, but large enough deals that they make an impact on the team's financial flexibility, and those contracts have varied from being downright bad so far (JBJ) to partially working out (Garcia bad in 2020, better in 2021, but non-existent in the playoffs), to mostly working out (Wong was very good in the regular season, but somewhat disappeared in the playoffs). Sure, we could sign Kris Bryant to a huge multi-year offer, but you really don't know if you are getting the MVP level Bryant of a few years ago and what he did pre-trade, or the injured, terrible version we saw in 2020. If you get the bad version, it's a sunk cost that is nearly impossible to fix.

 

That doesn't mean that it is prudent to live in fear and sit on your hands in free agency. But just that there is plenty of inherent risk in free agency that simply is more complex than just throwing gobs of money at to fix.

 

The JBJ deal never really made sense to me. I almost feel like it was a rebound after missing out on Justin Turner.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Well, sure. There is always a risk when signing free agents. And I don't mean gobs of money in the terms of New York or LA gobs of money. But if we have identified any trends from Stearns years in Milwaukee its that he is more willing to spend on bats than he is on arms. He isn't going to go high years high dollars with Yelich on the books but an impact bat on a 2/3 year deal still gives you financial flexibility. If what we heard about Justin Turner is true then our offer was very similar to the Dodgers 2yr/$34 million deal he took. Those are the types of deals I am referring too. Higher dollars, short years. The trouble is finding players who are willing to take that. They usually want security. Different when its for a 36 year old Justin Turner...

 

Then there are the deals like Grandal and Marcus Semien took. 1yr/$18m. Those are the types of FA deals that are in our wheelhouse.

 

Spot on! It definitely takes two to tango. Perhaps in hindsight it would have been prudent to offer Turner a deal that he couldn't feasibly turn down to get him in the fold? That's where Stearns' habit of assigning values to players, and rigidly sticking to that value can perhaps come back to bite the team. What kind of difference would having Justin Turner on this team made this year? He's the exact type of hitter than this team was sorely lacking ... a high-contact, high OBP, high energy veteran that wouldn't let the other players on this team get complacent.

[Soupbone]

Per Baseball Reference Rowdy Tellez has a 162 game average stat line of 501 AB's. 67 Runs. 26 HR's. 75 RBI's .307 OBP. 770 OPS.

Not wow numbers but ok. He will get a shot at a steady 1B/DH position next year. The rest of the infield is locked down with Wong, Adames, Urias. Hope Hiura can force his way into the mix. OF is Yelich, Cain, JBJ with Taylor in the mix. Certainly hope some young guys force their way into the picture but unless you trade someone I'm not sure there is room for a free agent signing.

[TURBO]

Its quite the problem that close to half the payroll is being spent on our outfielders with Garcia being the only one who had even a mediocre season with the bat.

 

 

Maybe not, but it sure can help.

[TURBO]

I don't know why people always equate "fix the offense" to "throw gobs of money at free agents". They are not the same thing.

 

What?

 

They can be the same thing if you throw gobs of money at the right guys.

 

How'd that work out for the Mets? How 'bout the Phillies? Or the Reds?

 

How has it worked for the Dodgers?

[TURBO]

Okay what is your angle here? Bryce Harper and Nick Castellanos have been great. Lindor hasn't lived up to that contract yet. I can cherry pick good contracts and bad contracts across the entire league for arguments sake but I'm not sure what your argument is. I said it can be the same thing if you throw a lot of money at the right guys. If we got Kris Bryant on a multi year deal and he consistently gives you .850 -.900 OPS seasons then how is that not worth it?

 

The point is there is not infinite gobs of money to throw around. You only get so many bites at the free agency apple unless you are a team like the Dodgers or Yankees. So when you sign players to big free agent deals, you are taking a huge risk that they will continue to perform at the same level that earned them that deal to begin with. Yelich is a prime example of this. They signed him to a huge extension, and his performance has tanked ever since. That's the risk. They've signed guys like Garcia, Wong and JBJ to what wouldn't be classified as huge deals, but large enough deals that they make an impact on the team's financial flexibility, and those contracts have varied from being downright bad so far (JBJ) to partially working out (Garcia bad in 2020, better in 2021, but non-existent in the playoffs), to mostly working out (Wong was very good in the regular season, but somewhat disappeared in the playoffs). Sure, we could sign Kris Bryant to a huge multi-year offer, but you really don't know if you are getting the MVP level Bryant of a few years ago and what he did pre-trade, or the injured, terrible version we saw in 2020. If you get the bad version, it's a sunk cost that is nearly impossible to fix.

 

That doesn't mean that it is prudent to live in fear and sit on your hands in free agency. But just that there is plenty of inherent risk in free agency that simply is more complex than just throwing gobs of money at to fix.

 

The JBJ deal never really made sense to me. I almost feel like it was a rebound after missing out on Justin Turner.

 

Totally! That is exactly how it felt. Turner gone, lets spend a certain amount of money on another guy so we can say we did it...

 

JBJ was a total reactionary signing to offset the fact we lost out on Turner.

[jonescm128]

Per Baseball Reference Rowdy Tellez has a 162 game average stat line of 501 AB's. 67 Runs. 26 HR's. 75 RBI's .307 OBP. 770 OPS.

Not wow numbers but ok. He will get a shot at a steady 1B/DH position next year. The rest of the infield is locked down with Wong, Adames, Urias. Hope Hiura can force his way into the mix. OF is Yelich, Cain, JBJ with Taylor in the mix. Certainly hope some young guys force their way into the picture but unless you trade someone I'm not sure there is room for a free agent signing.

 

I think there is room if a deal is more backloaded. Cain and JBJ and their $30m come off the books in 2023. Banking on a bounce back season from JBJ, Yelich and Hiura and a productive season from Cain at 36 years old is a lot of "ifs".

[ReverendBrewmeister]

No one talks about it but this organization hasn't drafted and developed a big time hitter since Braun. Once again we didn't have one everyday player drafted by the team unless you count Cain who was reaquired as a free agent. Stearns has done an incredible job putting together the best pitching staff in team history but the lineup was clearly the worst of any playoff team and not nearly good enough.

 

That is a legitimate concern, probably the one hole in Stearns' track record with the Brewers. Not sure why a big time hitter hasn't been found via the draft. Not doing so also hampers the payroll a bit, since the team has to spend on free agents to buy offense. That doesn't always pan out, either.

 

There is some hope that Hiura could bounce back to become that big homegrown hitter in the lineup. Shouldn't write him off yet, just as Burnes wasn't written off after the 2019 season. And there are some potential bats in AA and High-A, but they are a few seasons away from reaching the majors with plenty left to prove in the minors. But the lack of developing hitters in house means that trading from the position of strength--the pitching depth--will likely be the method of acquiring bats for the 2022 and 2023 seasons.

[jonescm128]

No one talks about it but this organization hasn't drafted and developed a big time hitter since Braun. Once again we didn't have one everyday player drafted by the team unless you count Cain who was reaquired as a free agent. Stearns has done an incredible job putting together the best pitching staff in team history but the lineup was clearly the worst of any playoff team and not nearly good enough.

 

That is a legitimate concern, probably the one hole in Stearns' track record with the Brewers. Not sure why a big time hitter hasn't been found via the draft. Not doing so also hampers the payroll a bit, since the team has to spend on free agents to buy offense. That doesn't always pan out, either.

 

There is some hope that Hiura could bounce back to become that big homegrown hitter in the lineup. Shouldn't write him off yet, just as Burnes wasn't written off after the 2019 season. And there are some potential bats in AA and High-A, but they are a few seasons away from reaching the majors with plenty left to prove in the minors. But the lack of developing hitters in house means that trading from the position of strength--the pitching depth--will likely be the method of acquiring bats for the 2022 and 2023 seasons.

 

Definitely. Would love to know what the "big time offer" was to acquire Bryan Reynolds. Man, that would have been amazing. Love watching that dude hit.

[brewers888]

Haines has to be fired at this point. There is just no justification whatsoever for him to remain the hitting coach. The players deserve the brunt of the blame but this guy adds nothing to the organization.

[wibadgers23]

Haines has to be fired at this point. There is just no justification whatsoever for him to remain the hitting coach. The players deserve the brunt of the blame but this guy adds nothing to the organization.

 

Yeah it’s obviously not his fault the offense stunk but at this point it’s time to move on and get a new voice in here. Who the heck knows if it helps but you might as well try something different.

[Jopal78]

No one talks about it but this organization hasn't drafted and developed a big time hitter since Braun. Once again we didn't have one everyday player drafted by the team unless you count Cain who was reaquired as a free agent. Stearns has done an incredible job putting together the best pitching staff in team history but the lineup was clearly the worst of any playoff team and not nearly good enough.

 

That is a legitimate concern, probably the one hole in Stearns' track record with the Brewers. Not sure why a big time hitter hasn't been found via the draft. Not doing so also hampers the payroll a bit, since the team has to spend on free agents to buy offense. That doesn't always pan out, either.

 

There is some hope that Hiura could bounce back to become that big homegrown hitter in the lineup. Shouldn't write him off yet, just as Burnes wasn't written off after the 2019 season. And there are some potential bats in AA and High-A, but they are a few seasons away from reaching the majors with plenty left to prove in the minors. But the lack of developing hitters in house means that trading from the position of strength--the pitching depth--will likely be the method of acquiring bats for the 2022 and 2023 seasons.

 

Definitely. Would love to know what the "big time offer" was to acquire Bryan Reynolds. Man, that would have been amazing. Love watching that dude hit.

 

Mitch Haniger. 824 career OPS and 124 OPS+ across 2000 at bats. But they traded him for Gerardo Parra before he made it to the majors.

 

More of a slugger than a complete hitter, but Khris Davis was legit

[FVBrewerFan]

Haines has to be fired at this point. There is just no justification whatsoever for him to remain the hitting coach. The players deserve the brunt of the blame but this guy adds nothing to the organization.

 

Yeah it’s obviously not his fault the offense stunk but at this point it’s time to move on and get a new voice in here. Who the heck knows if it helps but you might as well try something different.

 

Not CC fault either, but I would be fine if they moved on with a new manager. That's pro sports, sometimes you just need to shake things up.

[jerichoholicninja]

Haines has to be fired at this point. There is just no justification whatsoever for him to remain the hitting coach. The players deserve the brunt of the blame but this guy adds nothing to the organization.

 

Yeah it’s obviously not his fault the offense stunk but at this point it’s time to move on and get a new voice in here. Who the heck knows if it helps but you might as well try something different.

 

Not CC fault either, but I would be fine if they moved on with a new manager. That's pro sports, sometimes you just need to shake things up.

 

Ya...no.