2021 Miscellaneous NFL News

[nodakfan17]

Looks like the Jets are getting a 2nd, a 4th, and a 6th from Carolina.

 

That sort of feels like an overpay (and I’d gladly take that for Love). Darnold MIGHT still be an average starting quarterback, but his ceiling is nowhere near where it was 3 years ago. Even if he turns out to be really good, 3 of his 5 ‘value’ years have been used up. A 2nd round pick seems adequate on its own.

[HiAndTight]

Looks like the Jets are getting a 2nd, a 4th, and a 6th from Carolina.

 

That sort of feels like an overpay (and I’d gladly take that for Love). Darnold MIGHT still be an average starting quarterback, but his ceiling is nowhere near where it was 3 years ago. Even if he turns out to be really good, 3 of his 5 ‘value’ years have been used up. A 2nd round pick seems adequate on its own.

 

 

He's 23 years old. I don't think his ceiling has dropped at all. He's played for a terrible franchise and now he's going to a team that's going to surround him with talent on offense. And if Sewell drops to them in the first round, they'll have a franchise RB, two really good tackles and a couple of good WR'ers to go with a good offensive mind.

 

Darnold is big, mobile and talented and still young. This could be a steal for the Panthers.

[HiAndTight]

Hey, you have to clear roster space for the QB the Jets will overdraft this year then dump for far less value in 3 years when he flames out.

 

They might actually be on the right track now. They've got a franchise LT, a couple smart young coaches.

 

Feels like they're making better decisions...not that they could make worse decisions than Gase and the parade of idiots they've previously had come through.

And Douglas did have a incredible draft last year.

 

 

At some point, these franchises HAVE to figure it out...if just by luck, they hire someone who is not clueless(and provided they don't take Peyton Manning's advice on any hire). I think the Jets might have done that with the Douglas hire. If I was them, I'd us that 2nd 1st round pick on a RT. Benton and say Darrisaw, that'd make life a lot easier for Wilson than it was for that poor bastard Sam Darnold.

[CheezWizHed]

The 2nd and 4th round picks for Darnold are next year, so it would look more like a 3rd, 5th, and 6th this year. That has to equal about a mid-2nd overall?

 

Honestly, I was curious if Darnold was really a wash-out. He has barely plaid and was for a terrible team. Sounds like this might be a good trade for him.

[HiAndTight]

The 2nd and 4th round picks for Darnold are next year, so it would look more like a 3rd, 5th, and 6th this year. That has to equal about a mid-2nd overall?

 

Honestly, I was curious if Darnold was really a wash-out. He has barely plaid and was for a terrible team. Sounds like this might be a good trade for him.

 

 

I was hoping he didn't end up in SF or Chicago. Especially SF. But we'll find out if he can get his career back on the same track as peers Josh Allen, Lamar and Baker.

 

Amazing how two QB's had the deck so completely stacked against them from the start, Rosen and Donald, while the other 3 had organizations who built up their rosters to really help the QB's.

 

Pretty easy for me to see the correlation between the two who have already been traded and those who haven't. If Darnold would have gone to Cleveland with the talent they were assembling, I don't have much doubt he'd be ranked head of Baker at this point.

[PeaveyFury]

Amazing how two QB's had the deck so completely stacked against them from the start, Rosen and Donald, while the other 3 had organizations who built up their rosters to really help the QB's.

 

Pretty easy for me to see the correlation between the two who have already been traded and those who haven't. If Darnold would have gone to Cleveland with the talent they were assembling, I don't have much doubt he'd be ranked head of Baker at this point.

 

In the past 30-ish years of the NFL, there's a number of circumstances that clearly effect who becomes able to succeed as 1st rounders and those are destined to fail. Talent evaluation is certainly one of them, as some guys are absolutely overdrafted due to a team's desperation.... too many guys rocket up draft charts while ignoring red flags or because of combine stuff. The team they go to matters A LOT, as those that end up in situations where they have a good staff, good supporting team around them, and in a lot of cases, the ability to sit and learn a bit seem to have a much higher rate of success. In the end luck matters too.

 

Is Tim Couch or David Carr a bust if they go a bit later in the 1st to better teams? Is Peyton Manning the same guy if he ends up going at #2 to San Diego instead of Indy? Is Aaron Rodgers the elite HOF QB he became if he was thrown into the fire in SF at #1 overall like Alex Smith was? Who knows. Darnold is probably viewed better if he ends up in Cleveland or Buffalo, as you note.

[HiAndTight]

Amazing how two QB's had the deck so completely stacked against them from the start, Rosen and Donald, while the other 3 had organizations who built up their rosters to really help the QB's.

 

Pretty easy for me to see the correlation between the two who have already been traded and those who haven't. If Darnold would have gone to Cleveland with the talent they were assembling, I don't have much doubt he'd be ranked head of Baker at this point.

 

In the past 30-ish years of the NFL, there's a number of circumstances that clearly effect who becomes able to succeed as 1st rounders and those are destined to fail. Talent evaluation is certainly one of them, as some guys are absolutely overdrafted due to a team's desperation.... too many guys rocket up draft charts while ignoring red flags or because of combine stuff. The team they go to matters A LOT, as those that end up in situations where they have a good staff, good supporting team around them, and in a lot of cases, the ability to sit and learn a bit seem to have a much higher rate of success. In the end luck matters too.

 

Is Tim Couch or David Carr a bust if they go a bit later in the 1st to better teams? Is Peyton Manning the same guy if he ends up going at #2 to San Diego instead of Indy? Is Aaron Rodgers the elite HOF QB he became if he was thrown into the fire in SF at #1 overall like Alex Smith was? Who knows. Darnold is probably viewed better if he ends up in Cleveland or Buffalo, as you note.

 

 

I'd give this a re-post if this was twitter. That's is something so many people seem to ignore and rather than looking at how the franchises have failed them, they just put it all on the QB's. That's sometimes the case(Leaf could have gone to anyone, wasn't gonna matter). The one guy I always refer to is David Carr. Wilson is complaining about how often he is sacked. 48 and 47 times the past two years. And again, lets keep in mind 2020 rules vs 2003 rules. Can't hit a QB low, can't hit one high, can't drive through, can come CLOSE to the head, can't bump the head on accident after having your hands up trying to block the pass....etc...etc..

 

David Carr came, started with 8 other rookies on offense and a man who I believe is a great Defensive Coordinator, but not exactly someone I'd say is well known for developing Quarterbacks, Dom Capers.

Add 2 more rookies the following years, and he was sacked an NFL RECORD 79 times a rookie, 49 times in his 3rd year and 68 times in his 3rd year.

 

I think he was probably better than his brother, but he went to an expansion franchise that didn't draft very well, they had a defensive minded head coached and they did very little to get him help on the OL or elsewhere. In fact, in his 3rd I believe they had 10 picks, they used their top 9 on defensive players...and a QB as their 10th.

 

Just going back and looking at the history of that franchise, they had some great drafts under Smith...who Bill O'Brien forced out and they were terrible before and since.

 

 

The team you're drafted to is probably the biggest factor in the type of career a QB will have. I've argued that I think the gap between Rodgers and Smith would be much closer if they had flipped. Smith was thrown in too early, Rodgers got to sit and then had quite a bit of talent around him(and I think Clement and McCarthy did do a great job developing him).

We forget how talented Couch looked coming out, but first two healthy years, he was sacked 106 times.

 

Few QB's can overcome the type of abuse and lack of talent that Couch and Carr did. Peyton Manning was sacked 22 and 14 times his first two seasons.

 

If you're going to invest a top 3-5 pick on a QB, you'd better be looking at building up your OL. Lawrence looks like he might actually be going to a decent situation with two solid young tackles and some nice weapons. Same with the Jets who just drafted their franchise LT last year and have another pick they're projected to use at tackle(Which is why I think they might be on the right track).

 

And of course, whoever goes to SF is going to have a ton of talent with a HOF LT, a young, top 10 pick at RT, Deebo, Kittle, Aiyuk, and a great run game.

 

Even the Bengals are in position to help Joe Burrow out a ton by drafting an rare talent at LT, or a WR'er like Chase at #5. Personally, I'd go with Sewell and hope he and Johnah Williams can give them two franchise tackles, then worry about WR'ers later on, but I suspect they take a pass catcher.

 

Incidentally, IF the Packers decide to move on and start Love next year or the year after, he should also have the talent around him to succeed. Bahk, Adams, a lot of young OL, Tonyan should all be in place. Very possibly another 1st round OT from this draft class, plus, if they decide to do so after Rodgers has another monster season, they'll have a whole lot of draft picks to help build the team up and salary cap room after one year(not that I'd advocate this, just pointing out that Love is set up for success IF the Packers inexplicably move on from their MVP).

 

You don't want your QB to be "seeing ghosts" out there when he's 20 years old and just trying to figure out how to go through his reads.

[nodakfan17]

The gunman who killed 5 in South Carolina was reportedly an NFL veteran. He reportedly shot and killed the doctor who was treating him, along with the doctor’s grandchildren. I wouldn’t be shocked if it was CTE. Very sad situation all around.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/2-children-among-5-killed-010718996.html

[PinaMadness]

Yikes!

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31214902/report-former-nfl-player-phillip-adams-kills-5-himself

[HiAndTight]

The gunman who killed 5 in South Carolina was reportedly an NFL veteran. He reportedly shot and killed the doctor who was treating him, along with the doctor’s grandchildren. I wouldn’t be shocked if it was CTE. Very sad situation all around.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/2-children-among-5-killed-010718996.html

 

 

I'm sure he'll have some level of CTE, but I also don't just flatly buy the CTE excuses(which I am not suggesting you were making).

 

I don't believe good people who just suffer concussions over the course of their careers end up killing children in a massacre. At least I sure as hell hope not. I ended up missing my Soph year in Coll due to a concussion and then had to stop after getting one early as a Jr and have had at least 8 or 9 good ones in all.

 

They tried to kinda suggest that Aaron Hernandez was a thug because of CTE. I'll buy headaches and other side affects, but not these manic fits that send you into these psychotic shooting sprees.

 

The man shot little children. So I guess something was wrong with his brain, I just won't chalk it up to playing FB.

[adambr2]

The gunman who killed 5 in South Carolina was reportedly an NFL veteran. He reportedly shot and killed the doctor who was treating him, along with the doctor’s grandchildren. I wouldn’t be shocked if it was CTE. Very sad situation all around.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/2-children-among-5-killed-010718996.html

 

 

I'm sure he'll have some level of CTE, but I also don't just flatly buy the CTE excuses(which I am not suggesting you were making).

 

I don't believe good people who just suffer concussions over the course of their careers end up killing children in a massacre. At least I sure as hell hope not. I ended up missing my Soph year in Coll due to a concussion and then had to stop after getting one early as a Jr and have had at least 8 or 9 good ones in all.

 

They tried to kinda suggest that Aaron Hernandez was a thug because of CTE. I'll buy headaches and other side affects, but not these manic fits that send you into these psychotic shooting sprees.

 

The man shot little children. So I guess something was wrong with his brain, I just won't chalk it up to playing FB.

 

I'm going to expand on this a bit, and probably be a little harsher than you were, but it's not directed to anyone here. It's just that, whenever something like this happens, there seems to be a certain degree of rationalization that goes with it. It reminds me of when a ruthless killer is in court and his lawyer explains how he was abused as a child.

 

Well, ok, maybe Ed Gein's father did abuse him, and maybe Chris Benoit did have CTE. But that doesn't mean they weren't monsters. There are plenty of victims of abuse and former football players with CTE that do not in fact murder people. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to understand and solve those underlying problems, but don't use it to rationalize a horrific act.

 

The last thing the family or the victims need to hear after something like this is that the perpetrator was a good person and they just don't understand. You may not understand, but they were not a good person. Once they commit an act like this, it doesn't matter who they were before that. They are a monster.

 

If the family of the perpetrator can learn something about the person later that helps bring them peace, great. But stop treating the culprit as a victim. I have an 8 year old daughter and 5 year old son. Phillip Adams killed two babies. He can rot, regardless of any underlying contributors.

[homer]

I don't think we have any idea what CTE can do to a person.

[pacopete4]

I don't think we have any idea what CTE can do to a person.

 

This. If someone wants to label it as someone becoming a monster or whatever, fine. But there are a lot of things here that we don't quite get yet with brain injuries. That doesn't excuse someone but it also can help us understand why these types of scenarios continue to keep recurring whether it be an NFL player, military person, or just someone that had a TBI in another way.

[homer]

I don't think we have any idea what CTE can do to a person.

 

This. If someone wants to label it as someone becoming a monster or whatever, fine. But there are a lot of things here that we don't quite get yet with brain injuries. That doesn't excuse someone but it also can help us understand why these types of scenarios continue to keep recurring whether it be an NFL player, military person, or just someone that had a TBI in another way.

 

And to help prevent it from happening in the future.

[HiAndTight]

 

I'm going to expand on this a bit, and probably be a little harsher than you were, but it's not directed to anyone here. It's just that, whenever something like this happens, there seems to be a certain degree of rationalization that goes with it. It reminds me of when a ruthless killer is in court and his lawyer explains how he was abused as a child.

 

Well, ok, maybe Ed Gein's father did abuse him, and maybe Chris Benoit did have CTE. But that doesn't mean they weren't monsters. There are plenty of victims of abuse and former football players with CTE that do not in fact murder people. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to understand and solve those underlying problems, but don't use it to rationalize a horrific act.

 

The last thing the family or the victims need to hear after something like this is that the perpetrator was a good person and they just don't understand. You may not understand, but they were not a good person. Once they commit an act like this, it doesn't matter who they were before that. They are a monster.

 

If the family of the perpetrator can learn something about the person later that helps bring them peace, great. But stop treating the culprit as a victim. I have an 8 year old daughter and 5 year old son. Phillip Adams killed two babies. He can rot, regardless of any underlying contributors.

 

 

 

I agree...and I agree with the following posts that are simply saying we can learn more about it and help treat it, try to prevent it(which I don't think we'll ever actually do, but it's something to work toward).

 

Some people just break and some people are ticking timebombs.

 

I just really don't like how CTE is thrown in at the end of a story like this as though that may explain it. I believe it does some horrible things and that guys like Junior Seau are so horribly affected by this that they take their lives when they otherwise wouldn't have. But he didn't take a family along with him...he didn't snatch a couple of children's lives on his way out.

[adambr2]

Do I think that CTE was a contributing factor to what Adams did? Yes. Do I think we should try to understand CTE better? Of course.

 

The part I keep coming back to, is that Phillip Adams was still a man with free will. He was capable of making decisions. One of the decisions he made that week was to murder 4 people and then escape justice by taking his own life.

 

It sounds like the doctor he killed had cut off his medication. For what reasons, we don't know. But it appears it made him so violently angry that he took this course of action. To do this was a horrific action, but I think I could find myself trying to sympathize more with Adams' plight if this was simply between him and the doctor.

 

But to slaughter his grandchildren is a particularly heinous, evil and unthinkable act.

 

I feel great sympathy for victims of mental illness, and I know what havoc it can wreak in their lives. I feel great sympathy for Junior Seau, and for Robin Williams, and Ray Easterling.

 

But unless it can be medically shown that Phillip Adams had no control over his actions, my sympathy in this case is reserved for the individuals he murdered in cold blood. The consequences of CTE are far-reaching, and we should do everything we can to understand it, and prevent if. But the list of individuals who suffered from CTE and did not choose to harm others is long.

[homer]

I don't know if I would say a person with brain damage is operating with free will. Losing impulse control after a traumatic injury is well-documented.

[CheezWizHed]

That still doesn't excuse the act of murder. It might change how you treat/handle the case (if he had survived), but it isn't an excuse. I doubt you would be so blithe if you were related to that doctor or kids.

[pacopete4]

Having a discussion about why people possibly end up doing these terrible acts is not being “blithe” about the situation. It’s having an understanding that this guy possibly wouldn’t have ever done what he did without the brain injury that is being reported as a possible scenario. I’ve worked with TBI patients. It’s extremely sad for those people and their families as well.

[CheezWizHed]

Understanding the effects of CTE to prevent it is fine. But we don't know how affected he was by CTE in the first place. There are a lot of assumptions going on.

 

The "blithe" part is when the excuse is thrown out...well, he has CTE. It was still murder. He still killed people. We are sadly desensitized by it anymore.

[nate82]

I don't know if I would say a person with brain damage is operating with free will. Losing impulse control after a traumatic injury is well-documented.

 

The way this happened is more someone operating under free will. If this were someone losing impulse control it would be more in the moment and this looks to be planned and not something that was acted upon based on losing impulse. We won't know for certain because they took their own life but I don't see this as someone losing impulse control this seemed planned and not based on impulse.

[HiAndTight]

Understanding the effects of CTE to prevent it is fine. But we don't know how affected he was by CTE in the first place. There are a lot of assumptions going on.

 

The "blithe" part is when the excuse is thrown out...well, he has CTE. It was still murder. He still killed people. We are sadly desensitized by it anymore.

 

Right...this started with,"I wouldn't be surprised if this was CTE." As though CTE is just why you shoot children(though, again, I don't think that's how it was intended).

 

It somehow feels as though we're minimizing CTE AND these abhorent violent actions at the same time.

 

Mike Webster bought a taser so he could sleep. He'd tase himself. He had super glue to glue his teeth back in. He duck taped pens to his hands so he could write letters without the pen falling out. CTE does terrible, awful things to you.

 

Webster was as bad a case as I've heard of. I've never heard or seen anything about him taking out children.

 

 

Maybe if you start with someone who's emotionally troubled and then you damage their brains, they're more likely to act on those violent impulses. I don't know and I don't think anyone does. So as you're suggesting, until we actually know if he even had CTE, we're making a lot of assumptions. But the worst one is just assuming that because some trash human being murdered a family, CTE played a role. And that's the only thing that's not an assumption at this point. This guy....was a trash human being. Doctor cut him off, he killed the Doctor(understandable though obviously not justifiable, but I can wrap my head around killing him in a fit of rage). Then the wife, then kids. I can't even reach to understand the wife and I won't try to understand killing children.

[adambr2]

Agree with CheeseWiz, Nate and H/T. I don't have any problem with accepting the possibility that CTE was involved. But first, I don't understand why that is the default assumption. When any other person commits murder, especially of children, we say, "What a scumbag." We don't say, "Well, what was wrong with his brain that caused this?"

 

I think we need to accept that there are terrible people in this world that do terrible things and this man was one of those people. It doesn't mean that there aren't circumstances and sometimes mental conditions that contribute to their actions, but that goes for basically any murderer. Almost no one wakes up one day and just decides to kill people in cold blood, there are circumstances that contribute to the action. But that doesn't make them any less culpable.

 

And to Nate's point, this was an act that required pre-meditation.

 

I am fine with admitting that there's a better than average chance that Phillip Adams never commits this act without him suffering from a TBI, but I will cannot accept that this makes him any less responsible for his actions.

 

As humans we face many circumstances or mental conditions in life that can make us more prone to violence -- depression, anxiety, PTSD, among many other things. As long as we act under our own free will we still have a personal responsibility to not act on these tendencies.

[PinaMadness]

Julian Edelman has been cut by the Patriots.

[JimH5]

Agree with CheeseWiz, Nate and H/T. I don't have any problem with accepting the possibility that CTE was involved. But first, I don't understand why that is the default assumption. When any other person commits murder, especially of children, we say, "What a scumbag." We don't say, "Well, what was wrong with his brain that caused this?"

 

I think we need to accept that there are terrible people in this world that do terrible things and this man was one of those people. It doesn't mean that there aren't circumstances and sometimes mental conditions that contribute to their actions, but that goes for basically any murderer. Almost no one wakes up one day and just decides to kill people in cold blood, there are circumstances that contribute to the action. But that doesn't make them any less culpable.

 

And to Nate's point, this was an act that required pre-meditation.

 

I am fine with admitting that there's a better than average chance that Phillip Adams never commits this act without him suffering from a TBI, but I will cannot accept that this makes him any less responsible for his actions.

 

As humans we face many circumstances or mental conditions in life that can make us more prone to violence -- depression, anxiety, PTSD, among many other things. As long as we act under our own free will we still have a personal responsibility to not act on these tendencies.

 

I don't think free will applies when someone has a brain disease or disorder. A person with Alzheimer's disease is at the mercy of that illness. I think the same applies to CTE.

 

It's tau protein tangles destroying parts of the brain, affecting things like executive function, mood, impulse control, memory, and more. People close to those who are later diagnosed with CTE often describe them as having lost their former personality. They are reduced, and in unpredictable ways. It's not whether someone is or was a terrible person. The disease reforms them into an unpredictable one.