Spring Training Battle: 3B (and SS and UT)

[MVP2110]

Has Shaw gotten an AB yet? I thought i read he has a May 15 opt out?

 

Shaw has started in two games. He had an rbi yesterday

[MVP2110]

Has Shaw gotten an AB yet? I thought i read he has a May 15 opt out?

 

Shaw has started in two games. He had an rbi yesterday

[djoctagone]

Has Shaw gotten an AB yet? I thought i read he has a May 15 opt out?

15 march, not 15 may.

[djoctagone]

Has Shaw gotten an AB yet? I thought i read he has a May 15 opt out?

15 march, not 15 may.

[SeaBass]

Per ESPN:

If not added to the roster by March 15, Shaw would be released unless put on within 72 hours of a formal request.

I'm assuming that means the 40 man roster, that's too early for the Brewers to be setting their final 26 man roster. I'd expect Shaw to get plenty of ABs leading up to March 15. Also, just because that's the date in the contract it doesn't prevent Shaw and the team agreeing to push the opt out date back by a week or longer, I believe they've done that in the past, with Stephen Vogt I think?

 

I also wonder if the wording of that means Shaw can request he be added to the roster anytime after March 15, not that it has to be that day. Could he wait to make a formal request on March 20 and then the team would have 3 days to comply?

[brewers888]

Is there any team that plans on contending with a weaker left side of the infield. Urias looks like a minor leaguer to me, Arcia only plays well in big games and Shaw is unlikely to be the player he was the first few seasons he played for the Brewers.

[brewers888]

Are there any third base prospects available for trade. Stearns needs to parlay some of this pitching depth into a legitimate third baseman if Urias and Shaw flop as is the most likely scenario.

[SeaBass]

My favorite part is how so many people on this board are penciling Shaw in as the every day 3B when Arica has outplayed him each of the last 2 seasons.

 

I don't know about everyone else but I'm still a skeptic when it comes to Shaw. A kinda, sorta, squint-your-eyes-real-hard minor bounce back in 50 games last season wasn't enough for me. I don't dislike him and I'm open minded but I need to see him prove that he deserves playing time.

Three things related to this:

 

1. I think people, myself included, remember the 2017-2018 Shaw and don't think Arcia at his peak could come close to producing a .258/.347/.844 slash with 30+ HR potential. If you took Arcia's peak #s of any year in his career, you get .277(2017)/.324(2017)/.734 (2019) with 15-20 HR potential

 

2. Arcia is not a 3B and is not a guy who you have to find a spot for in the lineup because of his bat. Arcia's career slash is still .244/.295/.660. In arguably his best offensive season of 2020, Arcia was .260/.317/.734. In 2020, Shaw produced .239/.306/.717. Even in a "down" Shaw year in 2020, he almost reached Arcia's career peaks in OBP and SLG and still almost produced the same in OBP & SLG as Arcia did in 2020.

 

3. I think most people are rooting for Shaw as he was quickly becoming a fan favorite at the time of his slump. While not the face of the franchise, the blue-collar type production (e.g. solid not elite offense coupled with solid not elite defense) really resonates to this fanbase.

 

In terms of production, you generally know what Arcia is. A .250/.300/.700 guy. Shaw has a wider range of outcomes but if he approaches something close to his peak, significantly passes Arcia's OBP and SLG and is an actual 3B. I give Shaw every chance to lose the job.

To me it's not that people prefer Shaw, I understand all the history there, it's the incredulous reactions to Arcia being in the mix. They were basically the same player last season and there's seemingly no understandable reason for why Shaw's production fell off the edge of the flat earth in 2019. His 2020 just doesn't inspire me to believe he's figured it out. It would be great if he builds upon that and makes himself obviously better even if he's still not the Shaw that hit over 60 HRs in 2 seasons.

 

Until then he's just Eric Sogard in disguise.

[markedman5]

Urias with 0-2 with an error and then limped off

 

 

[markedman5]

Zach Green with a 3 run bomb to join the competition.

[DR28]

Zach Green with a 3 run bomb to join the competition.

 

Nice!! Honestly I'm pulling for this kid!

 

If Shaw doesnt win the job, I want Green as our everyday 3B... He's had really nice AAA numbers.

[brewers888]

If Urias still has options I don’t think he will make the roster. Like him or not Arcia is likely to be the Brewers starting shortstop this season.

[JohnBriggs12]

Nobody has brought up Pablo Reyes as a longshot candidate at 3B. He's seen action there this spring and has swung the bat pretty well. His AAA numbers in the Pirate organization have been pretty solid.

 

I think Bradley's signing doesn't help Shaw's chances. Bradley gives them their 4th LH bat in their everyday lineup without Shaw. Yes the Shaw of 2017-2018 would be a great piece, and it's likely he makes the team, but if he struggles out of the gate, his stay may be temporary.

[tigerbrew]

If Urias still has options I don’t think he will make the roster. Like him or not Arcia is likely to be the Brewers starting shortstop this season.

 

Yeah, Urias still has two options remaining, the Brewers should option him to AAA to work on his batting. I'd rather have Robertson on the roster than Urias.

[brewerfan82]

Nobody has brought up Pablo Reyes as a longshot candidate at 3B. He's seen action there this spring and has swung the bat pretty well. His AAA numbers in the Pirate organization have been pretty solid.

 

This is a good call. I've added him to the tables in the first post of this thread. He's been getting a good look at 3rd so far this Spring.

 

Here's a breakdown of who the Brewers have put at 3B so far: Shaw (2 starts), Reyes (1 start, 2 games off the bench), Arcia (1 start, 1 game off the bench), Mathias (1 start), Lopes (1 game off the bench)

[homer]

I see Reyes as strictly a utility guy. In Dominican Winter League he played every position except P, C, and 1st

 

He could be the new Hernan Perez.

[brewers888]

I see Reyes as strictly a utility guy. In Dominican Winter League he played every position except P, C, and 1st

 

He could be the new Hernan Perez.

 

Few things more exciting than the prospect of another Hernan Perez type of player.

[homer]

I see Reyes as strictly a utility guy. In Dominican Winter League he played every position except P, C, and 1st

 

He could be the new Hernan Perez.

 

Few things more exciting than the prospect of another Hernan Perez type of player.

 

Love the enthusiasm!

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I see Reyes as strictly a utility guy. In Dominican Winter League he played every position except P, C, and 1st

 

He could be the new Hernan Perez.

 

Few things more exciting than the prospect of another Hernan Perez type of player.

 

Love the enthusiasm!

 

In reality, every team would love to have a Hernan Perez type, who in his prime was an above average hitter with decent pop who could play competently anywhere on the diamond. I would hope the Brewers could identify another one.

[Lathund]

Perez was a useful player for a time with his positional versatility, a good utility man is often a good thing for teams to have. But he was never an above average hitter, not even close.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Perez was a useful player for a time with his positional versatility, a good utility man is often a good thing for teams to have. But he was never an above average hitter, not even close.

 

I don't know. That .730 OPS he put up in 400 ABs in 2016 would have looked damn good on last year's Brewers bench. He had 13 HRs and a .272 batting average that year. If that isn't even close to "above average", you have a very high "average" bar.

[Lathund]

Perez was a useful player for a time with his positional versatility, a good utility man is often a good thing for teams to have. But he was never an above average hitter, not even close.

 

I don't know. That .730 OPS he put up in 400 ABs in 2016 would have looked damn good on last year's Brewers bench. He had 13 HRs and a .272 batting average that year. If that isn't even close to "above average", you have a very high "average" bar.

 

A 90 wRc+ which he had in 2016 is by definition below average. Low OBP but high (comparatively) slugging guys look better with OPS, but even then the league average (non-pitchers) that year was .751, for an OPS+ of 91. If someone's best season as a hitter is below average, he's not an above average hitter. He also never came close to those numbers before or after 2016. Above average for a super utility man? I haven't studied their numbers in detail, but he might be. But that wasn't the claim.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Perez was a useful player for a time with his positional versatility, a good utility man is often a good thing for teams to have. But he was never an above average hitter, not even close.

 

I don't know. That .730 OPS he put up in 400 ABs in 2016 would have looked damn good on last year's Brewers bench. He had 13 HRs and a .272 batting average that year. If that isn't even close to "above average", you have a very high "average" bar.

 

A 90 wRc+ which he had in 2016 is by definition below average. Low OBP but high (comparatively) slugging guys look better with OPS, but even then the league average (non-pitchers) that year was .751, for an OPS+ of 91. If someone's best season as a hitter is below average, he's not an above average hitter. He also never came close to those numbers before or after 2016. Above average for a super utility man? I haven't studied their numbers in detail, but he might be. But that wasn't the claim.

 

My claim was that he was a player "who in his prime was an above average hitter with decent pop who could play competently anywhere on the diamond." I never said that he should be compared to the average MLB 3B. He was a solid utility guy, and in that role, was damn good for a couple seasons. Perhaps that was an overgeneralization, but I remember him as a solid piece of a team that, frankly, didn't have a ton of solid pieces. And yeah, 2016-17 are probably his prime years. Since he was pretty young at the time, my hope was that he'd continue to improve, but unfortunately he plateaued, and is now hanging on the perfory of the majors, despite being at an age where he should theoretically still be in his prime. He just never really got better, unfortunately.

[Lathund]

The .751 OPS is for all position players, not 3B. I never disagreed that he was a useful player for a while, just that the claim that he was an above average hitter wasn't true. And has nothing to do with me having some unusually high "average bar", simply comparing him to... the average.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

The .751 OPS is for all position players, not 3B. I never disagreed that he was a useful player for a while, just that the claim that he was an above average hitter wasn't true. And has nothing to do with me having some unusually high "average bar", simply comparing him to... the average.

 

Of course you are correct. But I think that the Brewers probably would have found a permanent spot for Perez had he proven to have a good enough bat to warrant it. So I guess I was comparing him to other utility guys around the league. As a straight utility guy, his bat played. Sorry for not being more specific in my initial post.