Kolten Wong to Brewers

[MVP2110]

Serious question. What hurts a team more, a bad 2b or a bad 1b?

[adambr2]

I don't think the assumption is that Hiura will be fine at 1B. I think the assumption is that whatever defense he gives us will be less harmful to us than the defense he gave us at 2B. Anything beyond that is welcome.

[pacopete4]

Kolten Wong has already been in contact with Orlando Arcia. Wong said he's intent on getting Arcia a Gold Glove Award.

[adambr2]

I know we as Brewer fans don't have much good to say about Cardinals players but even when he was a Cardinal I can't recall a bad word being said about Wong. From everything I've heard he's a really good dude.

[MVP2110]

[Eye Black]

Per Morosi: Kolten Wong’s 2-year, $18 million deal with Milwaukee includes a $1MM signing bonus and $7MM salary this year, of which $5MM is deferred to 2023 and 2024, source says. The deferment could allow the #Brewers to add an additional player for 2021.

 

Per McCalvy: Pretty significant details here. Per JP, looks like "only" a $3 million hit to the Brewers' payroll for 2021.

[monty57]

I'm not going to buy the fact Hiura will be fine at 1B until I see it for myself.

 

I sure hope he is, but if he struggles there and can't be trusted, that means he has probably lost some games for us due to errors.

 

Randomly moving guys around to different positions seems to happen with the Brewers more than any other team. (no evidence of that, but it sure seems like it)

 

There are 1,458 innings in a regular baseball season (162 x 9). Per Fangraphs, Hiura has 1,085 innings as a MLB second baseman, and has -13 defensive runs saved. In other words, he has probably lost some games for us due to his defense already.

 

Never say never, but he probably can't be as bad at first base as he is at second base, and the guy he's replacing (Vogelbach) isn't very good either, so let's say it's a wash moving from Vogelbach's defense to Hiura's. We significantly upgraded our second base defense, so if Hiura is simply as good (bad?) at first base as Vogelbach, we have greatly improved our overall infield defense.

[KeithStone53151]

 

The deferral helps obviously, but it more or less is deferring money to other players that has already been deferred. Obviously we have a buyout for Braun, but we probably have other money going to players not playing for us this year.

 

I really have a hard time believing we are going to add much more payroll. I know we have a glaring hole at 3b but I kinda think they are just gonna roll Urias there, deal with the lackluster offense at the spot, and have plus defense at all 3 key infield spots. Then cross your fingers and hope accruate throws make Hiura's life real easy at 1b.

[DR28]

 

The deferral helps obviously, but it more or less is deferring money to other players that has already been deferred. Obviously we have a buyout for Braun, but we probably have other money going to players not playing for us this year.

 

I really have a hard time believing we are going to add much more payroll. I know we have a glaring hole at 3b but I kinda think they are just gonna roll Urias there, deal with the lackluster offense at the spot, and have plus defense at all 3 key infield spots. Then cross your fingers and hope accruate throws make Hiura's life real easy at 1b.

 

Idk then why the big interest in Turner?

[patrickgpe]

i don't think just because they deferred money that means they are going to get another, probably just accounting for the lack of fans in the stands in 2021.

[miggs721]

yeah the negative nancy chimes in, they are doing the deferral for a reason...

[SRB]

Hiura is a great athlete and his primary issue at 2B is his throwing arm, I really see no reason to think he won't be a decent defensive 1B. There is a massive difference between making an OF move to 1B (an entirely different defensive skillset), and moving an IF to 1B. I doubt there are many major league infielders who could not easily move to 1B. That's why you put guys like Prince Fielder and Dan Vogelbach there...

 

It's true that height is an advantage at 1B, but Hiura doesn't need to be the best defensive 1B in the game. (And it's not like he's short. He's right at the lower end of the range of normal 1B heights.)

[MadScientist]

Serious question. What hurts a team more, a bad 2b or a bad 1b?

It really depends on what shortcomings they have. Limited range or a weak arm are much less costly at first. Trouble fielding ground balls is usually more costly at second, unless your name is Bill Buckner. Trouble catching balls thrown, especially when they are low or wide is not good at second, but a disaster at first (see Francisco, Jaun). Huira's range and arm can be hidden easily at first, especially with somebody as good as Wong at second. The question is can he handle the throws he needs to catch at first, and nobody really knows that.

[monty57]

 

The deferral helps obviously, but it more or less is deferring money to other players that has already been deferred. Obviously we have a buyout for Braun, but we probably have other money going to players not playing for us this year.

 

I really have a hard time believing we are going to add much more payroll. I know we have a glaring hole at 3b but I kinda think they are just gonna roll Urias there, deal with the lackluster offense at the spot, and have plus defense at all 3 key infield spots. Then cross your fingers and hope accruate throws make Hiura's life real easy at 1b.

 

Idk then why the big interest in Turner?

 

I don't know if it's "big interest" or just that the Brewers made a phone call and are being used as leverage by Turner's agent.

 

Either way, if they Brewers can get a significant improvement like Turner, then it may make sense to do it. I don't like the other names being thrown around like Jake Lamb and Brad Miller, because I think the combo of Urias/Robertson has just as good or better chance of making an impact as any of the "mid-tier" names that are being discussed.

 

Problem is, deferring Wong's money doesn't do much to help sign Turner, unless they can somehow convince him to sign a one-year deal. It's likely that the only way Turner will be a Brewer is if they give him more years than other teams are willing to give, so when Wong's deferred pay is due, we'd still be paying Turner.

[brewerfan82]

This was an interesting read: https://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/new-brewer-wong-says-cardinals-didnt-have-dialogue-with-him-but-harbors-no-ill-will/article_64235715-b9c9-50ce-a796-54f151af548b.html

 

I found this bit interesting. It shows that his signing didn't just happen out of nowhere and is a reminder of how well DS and team keep things close to the vest:

 

"The Brewers were on me at the beginning (of the off-season). They just felt like a team that really wanted me to be there. I just felt like a top priority. They made it feel like home."

He's also excited to hit in AmFam Field:

 

Wong has hit well in Miller Park, averaging .308 with an OPS of .855 and his six homers there are second only to his 28 at Busch Stadium. Now that the stadium is called American Family Field, he still is looking forward to going there.

 

“That was kind of a big reason for me coming to Milwaukee,” he said. “That was a field I really saw the ball well at. I felt comfortable there. I had a lot of confidence playing at that field. Having half my games in that stadium. . . I’m excited what I can do.”

Between his defense, on base ability, and "old school swagger", he sounds like he'll be the LoCain of the infield:

 

Wong, discussing what he can transfer from his Cardinal background to Milwaukee said, “My game is kind of that old-school game with a little new-school swag. I think that’s kind of the Brewers’ game and I’m excited to bring that over.”

And he's afraid of the Pfister hotel ghosts, lol:

 

“I prayed every single night that I would not see the ghost,” said Wong. “‘Whoever’s in my room, I just want you to know I’m on good terms. I’m not trying to be here. They’re forcing us to be here,’’’ Wong would say.

[Zad Fnark]

It would be poetic if Wong winds up completely torching Cardinal's pitching.

[mtrebs]

It would be poetic if Wong winds up completely torching Cardinal's pitching.

 

I hope so, but I always say putting on a Brewers jersey drops your batting average significantly (as opposed to putting on a Cardinals jersey, which somehow seems to improves your output).

[monty57]

It would be poetic if Wong winds up completely torching Cardinal's pitching.

 

I hope so, but I always say putting on a Brewers jersey drops your batting average significantly (as opposed to putting on a Cardinals jersey, which somehow seems to improves your output).

 

Plus, the recent history of the Brewers signing guys the Cards didn't re-up includes guys like Jeff Suppan, Kyle Lohse, and Braden Looper.

 

Extra slap to the face I didn't know of: When Suppan went back to the Cards for 15 games in 2010, after posting a miserable 52 ERA+ for Milwaukee, he posted a 101 ERA+ for the Cards. That's better than he did in any season in Milwaukee, where his best was 96 ERA+ in his first season (2007). At least Lohse had two decent seasons in Milwaukee before falling off a cliff.

 

C'mon Wong, break the curse.

[PeaveyFury]

 

Plus, the recent history of the Brewers signing guys the Cards didn't re-up includes guys like Jeff Suppan, Kyle Lohse, and Braden Looper.

 

Extra slap to the face I didn't know of: When Suppan went back to the Cards for 15 games in 2010, after posting a miserable 52 ERA+ for Milwaukee, he posted a 101 ERA+ for the Cards. That's better than he did in any season in Milwaukee, where his best was 96 ERA+ in his first season (2007). At least Lohse had two decent seasons in Milwaukee before falling off a cliff.

 

C'mon Wong, break the curse.

 

People do seem to forget that Lohse was a pretty good pickup for the first two years of that deal. The problem is that we all mostly remember the HORRENDOUS final season....

[MrTPlush]

Kyle Lohse was great for 2/3 years. I will take that any day for a FA signing...especially the guys we are often signing. Most of the time that is what people are hoping for. Justin Turner good for 2/3 years and then an albatross for the final year? Yah, I am betting nearly everyone on the forum would be running to make that deal.

 

Of course you could point out the negatives...but we essentially picked up Gyrko after he was with the Cards. That one worked out well last year.

[monty57]

I'm positive on the Wong signing, and am excited to watch him play. It'll be nice to have better defense and higher OBP. I was being light-hearted in my last post because the three players I mentioned have had a lot of hate thrown their way, but I do get a bit wary when the Cardinals have a player who has been good for them and they decide not to make an effort to re-sign him.

[Dead Simmons]

Some of you guy don't get just how good Wong is. Not re-signing him seems insane to me. Best middle infielder I EVER SAW, RIGHT UP THERE WITH OZZIE SMITH

 

Take a look at these plays that you will see every game, not once a week

 

[JosephC]

The wheels on the Arenado trade have probably been moving for quite awhile. Obtaining him and keeping Wong probably pushes Tommy Edman to the bench and maybe St. Louis just wants to give him a spot. Edman was really good with the bat in 2019 (349 plate appearances) and wasn't very good with the bat in 2020 (204 plate appearances). Total it all up and Edman has been a .283/.337/.449/.786 MLB hitter. Over the last two seasons Wong has been a .279/.358/.396/.754 hitter. Wong gives an OBP advantage, Edman figures to have much more pop in the bat moving forward. So far Edman has only played 256 1/3 MLB innings at second base but has posted a +7 DRS (great, great number for the limited amount of innings) and a +8.7 UZR/150. Wong has been an average 3.7 bWAR/fWAR player over the last three years. Edman has been good for 5.0 bWAR and 5.4 fWAR over his first 576 plate appearances. If, and it's the big if, Edman can maintain a .335+ OBP, I'd feel pretty good about saying that he'll be a perfectly fine replacement for Wong.

[Dead Simmons]

The wheels on the Arenado trade have probably been moving for quite awhile. Obtaining him and keeping Wong probably pushes Tommy Edman to the bench and maybe St. Louis just wants to give him a spot. Edman was really good with the bat in 2019 (349 plate appearances) and wasn't very good with the bat in 2020 (204 plate appearances). Total it all up and Edman has been a .283/.337/.449/.786 MLB hitter. Over the last two seasons Wong has been a .279/.358/.396/.754 hitter. Wong gives an OBP advantage, Edman figures to have much more pop in the bat moving forward. So far Edman has only played 256 1/3 MLB innings at second base but has posted a +7 DRS (great, great number for the limited amount of innings) and a +8.7 UZR/150. Wong has been an average 3.7 bWAR/fWAR player over the last three years. Edman has been good for 5.0 bWAR and 5.4 fWAR over his first 576 plate appearances. If, and it's the big if, Edman can maintain a .335+ OBP, I'd feel pretty good about saying that he'll be a perfectly fine replacement for Wong.

At the plate he sure will be, and the kid is just as fast as Wong. But the kid was twice the baller that Carp was last year in every faze but the FO could not stomach the idea of sitting that HUGE salary for a league minimum player because of the optics. Now optics be damned. As noted Jerko

is as good a hitter as the new 3rd baseman ESPECIALLY out of Coors Field and he has a sound shoulder!

 

You don't trade the best glove in the NL just to lower salary

[djoctagone]

10-day injured list for kolten wong. if he is to serve the minimum of 10 days and participate in a minor league rehab assignment, it would not be during the official minor league season.

 

he could rehab at the alternate training site in grand chute, or be assigned to minor league spring training in arizona.