Kolten Wong to Brewers

[monty57]

It's likely that Hiura won't be a good defensive first baseman, but the alternative right now is Vogelbach, who is also a poor defender.

 

Going from Hiura to Wong at 2B is a huge upgrade, while going from Vogelbach to Hiura will probably be around even defensively, so overall our defense gets a big upgrade. At least Hiura's bat should net him out as a positive player at first base, whereas Vogelbach's poor defense pretty much negates anything positive he does with his bat.

 

I'm fine if the brain trust can find a good trade for Hiura that would bring back a good, young corner infielder with a lot of team control. If they can't, then I think we're still a better team with Wong at 2B and Hiura at 1B then we were before Wong signed.

 

Now we have Hiura as our everyday 1B with Vogelbach as his LH backup. Wong is our 2B against righties, with Urias probably playing 2B against LHP. Arcia/Urias play SS, and Urias/Robertson play 3B. There's room for improvement but it's not horrible, especially considering most of our money is spent in the outfield.

[MrTPlush]

Hiura was never going to be a 2B long term. He needs to hit if he wants to provide value and make the big bucks.

[Fear The Chorizo]

It's likely that Hiura won't be a good defensive first baseman, but the alternative right now is Vogelbach, who is also a poor defender.

 

Going from Hiura to Wong at 2B is a huge upgrade, while going from Vogelbach to Hiura will probably be around even defensively, so overall our defense gets a big upgrade. At least Hiura's bat should net him out as a positive player at first base, whereas Vogelbach's poor defense pretty much negates anything positive he does with his bat.

 

I'm fine if the brain trust can find a good trade for Hiura that would bring back a good, young corner infielder with a lot of team control. If they can't, then I think we're still a better team with Wong at 2B and Hiura at 1B then we were before Wong signed.

 

Now we have Hiura as our everyday 1B with Vogelbach as his LH backup. Wong is our 2B against righties, with Urias probably playing 2B against LHP. Arcia/Urias play SS, and Urias/Robertson play 3B. There's room for improvement but it's not horrible, especially considering most of our money is spent in the outfield.

 

I really do think the NL is going to have a DH, which solves the position dilemma for Hiura. May not happen in 2021, but it will be part of the next CBA agreement whenever that gets decided.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

The move to first base could cost Hiura a ton in future earnings. It's one thing being a great hitter for a 2nd baseman, it's quite another to be a premier offensive first baseman. In 2020, he was basically Chris Carter offensively.

 

If it does end up costing him future earnings, it's on him. While he isn't unplayable at 2B, it's closer than it should be for any contending team. It isn't like Hiura is just going to throw away his infield glove, either. He's only 24 years old, and if he isn't traded, stands to be a part of this team much longer than Kolten Wong will likely be. He'll still see time at 2B, but not on a regular basis, unless Wong is injured.

 

What this does, in essence, is give Hiura the chance to learn multiple other defensive positions, increasing his overall versatility, while giving him the opportunity to learn from the best defensive 2B in the game for at least the next two seasons. Wong is known as a great team guy, and I'm sure the Brewers see him as a mentor for Hiura.

[monty57]

The move to first base could cost Hiura a ton in future earnings. It's one thing being a great hitter for a 2nd baseman, it's quite another to be a premier offensive first baseman. In 2020, he was basically Chris Carter offensively.

 

Or, he could actually be a good defensive first baseman and it increases his future earnings. Some of the biggest contracts in MLB history have been to slugging first basemen, while I can't recall too many big contacts to second basemen who are butchers in the field. He's a really bad defensive second baseman who probably never should have stepped on a MLB field as a second baseman.

 

It always scares me a bit when a player switches his position, but it does happen all the time. Hiura is moving from a tougher defensive position to an easier one. He's played on the right side of the infield, so he should have some comfort there, he won't have to throw as much (his biggest problem with his bad elbow), nor will he have to turn double plays. His two biggest defensive flaws, range and his arm, are not as important at first base. Nothing in MLB is easy, so there will be growing pains, but it is very possible that Hiura becomes a decent fielding first baseman which would give him a lot of value.

[homer]

It's first base. It really isn't that hard. He will be fine there. Will he be a game-changing defensive 1B? No, probably not. But if he hits the way he can, it will all be fine and dandy.

 

Sorry, had to :

 

[Fear The Chorizo]

Ryan Braun wound up playing 4 different positions despite ranging from atrocious to bad defensively at all of them and found a way to make a nice little living for himself.

 

The bat will play - if Hiura is more the hitter he showed the potential to be in 2019 compared to his numbers in the wacky, abbreviated 2020 I doubt he'll have difficulties accruing generational wealth during his career.

[pacopete4]

It's first base. It really isn't that hard. He will be fine there. Will he be a game-changing defensive 1B? No, probably not. But if he hits the way he can, it will all be fine and dandy.

 

Sorry, had to :

 

 

Yeah, I love that movie and scene. I just don't buy it that more guys can't knock down a ground ball and flip it to a pitcher.

[MrTPlush]

Ryan Braun wound up playing 4 different positions despite ranging from atrocious to bad defensively at all of them and found a way to make a nice little living for himself.

 

The bat will play - if Hiura is more the hitter he showed the potential to be in 2019 compared to his numbers in the wacky, abbreviated 2020 I doubt he'll have difficulties accruing generational wealth during his career.

 

Ryan Braun played two positions to amass his wealth and honestly was decent in LF before he got old. The fact he played RF and 1B later on is kinda irrelevant as that happened after we were already doomed to his contract.

 

A better example would be Kyle Schwarber.

[jerichoholicninja]

The move to first base could cost Hiura a ton in future earnings. It's one thing being a great hitter for a 2nd baseman, it's quite another to be a premier offensive first baseman. In 2020, he was basically Chris Carter offensively.

 

This was one of the first things I thought of. I mean it sucks for the player but it's clearly what's best for the team.

[JohnBriggs12]

If Hiura's typical year is .260/.340/.500 with 32 HR (essentially his full year stats so far), he's a mid pack 1B. If he did that every year at 2b and improved his defense there to average, he'd be an All Star in his good years. He'd have a lot more competition to make it at 1B. Not that he's not capable of replicating his rookie numbers which would put him in the mix. The hope is the move to first will allow him to focus more on his hitting and not let a bad play in the field take away from his concentration at the plate.

[nate82]

I'm just wondering how Chris Carpenter is going to explain this to his son?

[PeaveyFury]

The hope is the move to first will allow him to focus more on his hitting and not let a bad play in the field take away from his concentration at the plate.

 

Though I hear your point and likely agree with it in the long run, doesn't it actually have the opposite effect for 2021? Rather than focusing on his hitting, he's now required to not just try to hone the intricacies of a new position, but also really to develop an understanding of the basics. I'd think that most of his focus in spring training and early in the season will be devoted to that, which probably doesn't have the positive offensive effect you note.

[SRB]

Honestly, for all this discussion about Hiura, I would not be at all surprised if he stays at 2B and Wong moves full-time to 3B.

 

You have literally one of the best if not the best defensive 2B in baseball and you're going to move him to a position he's never played in his career to keep an absolute defensive butcher at his position?

 

I don't think so.

 

And presumably Wong's plus defense would translate to 3B, a position we currently have a vacancy at. I'm not saying it's what I would do, but would you really be shocked if the organization who moved Moustakas to 2B would do this?

 

For the record, moving Wong to 3B would not even affect his "value" given that, unless I'm mistaken, WAR uses the same positional adjustment for 2B and 3B. His defensive value likely could even increase at 3B.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Honestly, for all this discussion about Hiura, I would not be at all surprised if he stays at 2B and Wong moves full-time to 3B.

 

You have literally one of the best if not the best defensive 2B in baseball and you're going to move him to a position he's never played in his career to keep an absolute defensive butcher at his position?

 

I don't think so.

 

And presumably Wong's plus defense would translate to 3B, a position we currently have a vacancy at. I'm not saying it's what I would do, but would you really be shocked if the organization who moved Moustakas to 2B would do this?

 

Yes. In 2019 the Brewers had two 3Bs who were defensive standouts with bats that they wanted to get in the lineup. Moose's offense was solid at 3B, but elite at 2B. This isn't the same situation. While Wong is a solid bat at 2B, his bat at 3B would be pretty sizably below average.

[brewerfan82]

Honestly, for all this discussion about Hiura, I would not be at all surprised if he stays at 2B and Wong moves full-time to 3B.

 

You have literally one of the best if not the best defensive 2B in baseball and you're going to move him to a position he's never played in his career to keep an absolute defensive butcher at his position?

 

I don't think so.

 

And presumably Wong's plus defense would translate to 3B, a position we currently have a vacancy at. I'm not saying it's what I would do, but would you really be shocked if the organization who moved Moustakas to 2B would do this?

 

For the record, moving Wong to 3B would not even affect his "value" given that, unless I'm mistaken, WAR uses the same positional adjustment for 2B and 3B. His defensive value likely could even increase at 3B.

I would think the only way that happens is if they obtain a sure fire first baseman (for instance a Matt Olson) that doesn't allow for the option of Hiura at first. At that point you *might* consider leaving Hiura at 2nd and seeing if Wong can play 3rd. But I would think you're more likely to just find a trade partner for Hiura at that point.

[SRB]

Yes. In 2019 the Brewers had two 3Bs who were defensive standouts with bats that they wanted to get in the lineup. Moose's offense was solid at 3B, but elite at 2B. This isn't the same situation. While Wong is a solid bat at 2B, his bat at 3B would be pretty sizably below average.

 

The difference would not be that large. He would still be a 3+ WAR player there.

 

This situation is different but arguably analogous, in that we now have two 2B and a hole at 3B and only one of those two 2B can move there.

 

Again, my preference would be to use Hiura at 1B/DH, but I'm just pointing out that it is not clear yet what Stearns actually is planning. That question might be answered by whether or not we bring in another 1B/3B free agent.

[monty57]

I'll add that Urias is a second baseman that is currently our de facto third baseman. I'd guess that Wong will be our second baseman, but if he were to move to third, could it be Urias that moves to second, with Hiura still our first baseman? I don't really like the thought of sitting Urias (who still has a lot of upside potential) and making Wong play out of position simply so that Vogelbach gets to play first base and Hiura potentially gets a more expensive contract down the road.

 

Or, we could sign another second baseman to really confuse things :-)

[TURBO]

I think with all the analyzing going on, we will see so many different line-ups next year (as always) that in the end, we still won't have a set line-up. Unless of course we actually come up with a real 3B or 1B.

 

We seem to have a lot of interchangeable guys (at least according to posters here).

 

It has not been confirmed that Hiura will play 1B, or that Wong will slide over to 3B. At this time, there has been nothing confirmed about the plans for Urias either. Will he be playing a lot of 3B? SS? Is Arcia still our primary SS?

 

Our infield is still a mess.

 

I think there are still moves on the horizon that could clear some of this up.

[PeaveyFury]

I think with all the analyzing going on, we will see so many different line-ups next year (as always) that in the end, we still won't have a set line-up. Unless of course we actually come up with a real 3B or 1B.

 

We seem to have a lot of interchangeable guys (at least according to posters here).

 

It has not been confirmed that Hiura will play 1B, or that Wong will slide over to 3B. At this time, there has been nothing confirmed about the plans for Urias either. Will he be playing a lot of 3B? SS? Is Arcia still our primary SS?

 

Our infield is still a mess.

 

I think there are still moves on the horizon that could clear some of this up.

 

I think this is all fair, and I tend to agree with your last sentence. It seems like this signing is a precursor to something else, and if it is, it's a pretty big something else, just IMO. But, the alternative is that they're fine with the flexibility/versatility that they have as indicated in your comments as well. It really seems like it has to be one or the other- they're focused on building a super flexible IF/lineup using lots of players who can play a bunch of places, or they're going to move a some of the current pieces to give us clarity. Probably nothing in the middle of those two options.

[umphrey]

How many roster spots do we have open for potential corner infielders?

[DR28]

All this nonsense on moving Wong, a back to back gold glover to 3B... Come on guys... I'm guessing Wong wouldn't have signed with us if we were moving him to 3B.

 

Wong at 2B

Hiura at 1B

Urias and Arcia battle it out for SS in ST

Sign Brad Miller and he platoons with Robertson at 3B

 

Or

 

Just sign Asdrubal Cabrera or Marwin Gonzalez to play 3B everyday since both are switch hitters.

[patrickgpe]

brad miller, ugh.

 

why can't we just let urias have a chance at 3rd?

or if you want to pick someone off the scrap heap get Jake Lamb.

[DR28]

brad miller, ugh.

 

why can't we just let urias have a chance at 3rd?

or if you want to pick someone off the scrap heap get Jake Lamb.

 

Fine, I'll take Jake Lamb as well.

 

Lamb and Robertson would still be a good platoon.

[MrTPlush]

Putting Kolton Wong at 3B would be a total waste. We could have spent $1mil if all you wanted was a .700 - .750 OPS third baseman.

 

It is hard to say from watching highlights, but his arm doesn’t look that strong...so not sure his elite defense would translate. I’m sure he would be a nice 3B, but without a rocket arm it’s hard to be elite over at 3B. Also seems like it would make sense for him to go cover the hole between 1st/2nd and help up the middle. Arcia doesn’t need help between 2nd/3rd. Why waste his range (which I believe is pretty good) at 3B?

 

I’m sorry, but the concept makes absolutely zero sense to me and as someone else mentioned I doubt he would have signed here to be a 3rd baseman.

 

Also, I can’t wait for Arcia/Wong to make some legendary play for Hiura to drop a ball thrown to his chest at the end.