Packer 2021 Team Discussion (Rodgers Out Vs. Chiefs)

[PeaveyFury]

Pina, I honestly can’t tell if you’re serious or just trying to draw reactions.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so. Although he certainly isn't the entire reason for the loss, Love ain't it, folks. He was a project quarterback that led the nation in interceptions and had no business being a first round draft pick. Yes, Rodgers may be an insufferable diva jerk that I certainly wouldn't want to be friends with, but the fact is when Rodgers doesn't play, the Packers lose. Memo to MM and Gute: What Aaron Rodgers wants, Aaron Rodgers gets. Otherwise it's back to the Dan Devine/ Bart Starr days.

 

I guess Mahommes ain't it either. Love outplayed him.

 

 

 

 

 

See, I can make terrible assumptions as well!

[Fear The Chorizo]

I really hope this KC game doesn't cost us the first round bye. That's the consequence of Rodgers being selfish. Rodgers talked last year about how important it was to get the HFA and bye in the playoffs. He'll have no excuse if we don't get there this year.

 

I'd say both GB losses this season are the consequence of Rodgers being selfish....but I'd also say at least half of their wins are also due to Rodgers being who he is - a great quarterback with an ego. He's definitely not the 1st of those.

[yourout]

I really hope this KC game doesn't cost us the first round bye. That's the consequence of Rodgers being selfish. Rodgers talked last year about how important it was to get the HFA and bye in the playoffs. He'll have no excuse if we don't get there this year.

 

I'd say both GB losses this season are the consequence of Rodgers being selfish....but I'd also say at least half of their wins are also due to Rodgers being who he is - a great quarterback with an ego. He's definitely not the 1st of those.

 

And I bet he wont be the last.

[PeaveyFury]

I really hope this KC game doesn't cost us the first round bye. That's the consequence of Rodgers being selfish. Rodgers talked last year about how important it was to get the HFA and bye in the playoffs. He'll have no excuse if we don't get there this year.

 

I'd say both GB losses this season are the consequence of Rodgers being selfish....but I'd also say at least half of their wins are also due to Rodgers being who he is - a great quarterback with an ego. He's definitely not the 1st of those.

 

And I bet he wont be the last.

 

[sarcasm]Man, look out for 2035 Jordan Love.[/sarcasm]

[Fear The Chorizo]

Honest question that i don't have an answer for.

Say they gave ARod everything he wanted and was able to keep him till he hangs them up how many more season does everyone thing he has?

3-4-5?

Even at 10 years he'd be better than any scrub they always seem to bring in. I get that the quarterback position is more important to the Packers than anyone else in the NFL and that you should start looking at drafting your next QB of the future at some point, but not only was drafting Love to be that guy a mistake, drafting any quarterback in 2020 was too early to be thinking that way.

 

Based on Rodgers' performance in 2018-2019 and what his contract looked like, it really wasn't too early to try and get a young QB into the building and developed enough to take the reins in 2022. Teams moving on from HOF quarterbacks rarely fare very well in that 1-2 season transition period, just ask Arod, who went 6-10 his first year starting in his 4th year in the league.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Fear The Chorizo

[OldSchoolSnapper]

It bugs me a little bit that everyone is acting like if Rodgers has been vaccinated there's no way he'd miss a game. Packers could have, arguably should have won yesterday without him.

 

As far as the bye goes, I file that under "nice to have." But the Packers can beat any of these teams and I've seen them blow "HFA" enough that I'm not too worked up about where the chips fall.

[PeaveyFury]

It bugs me a little bit that everyone is acting like if Rodgers has been vaccinated there's no way he'd miss a game.

 

Completely fair- he may have missed yesterday's game regardless. But, he would have had far greater chance to play than the 0% than he gave himself. And there'd be zero chance he'd miss the Seattle game, which is very much up in the air at this point.

[TURBO]

I put the odds at Rodgers playing the Seattle game at 99.999%

 

He is eligible to come off the COVID list Saturday, I doubt he needs a lot of extra time to be ready unless the virus has taken a toll on his health, which has not been reported.

[Fear The Chorizo]

It bugs me a little bit that everyone is acting like if Rodgers has been vaccinated there's no way he'd miss a game. Packers could have, arguably should have won yesterday without him.

 

As far as the bye goes, I file that under "nice to have." But the Packers can beat any of these teams and I've seen them blow "HFA" enough that I'm not too worked up about where the chips fall.

 

Not everyone...Rodgers' selfishness isn't what led to him testing positive for COVID - but to me it is what turned the entire practice week completely away from football. Keep in mind they probably had put together a full gameplan against the Chiefs assuming Rodgers was going to be playing. Then right before the team starts practice Wednesday they find out Rodgers is out and Love gets tossed in. Hopefully it amounts to a 1 week blip on the season-long radar, but there's still a chance he may miss next Sunday's Seahawk game and it's yet to be determined if the scrutiny surrounding Rodgers winds up being a rallying point in the locker room or if it fractures things. It's one thing for everyone in that locker room (coaches and players) to know Rodgers' stance and vaxx status privately, it's another thing now for them to have to deal with negative press and public perception of them going along with helping ARod conceal it publicly when none of them were afforded that option themselves.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Fear The Chorizo

[Fear The Chorizo]

I put the odds at Rodgers playing the Seattle game at 99.999%

 

Simply boils down to how soon he can start passing COVID tests - he should be cleared in plenty of time to come off the list this coming Saturday, but he only 1st tested positive 5 days ago. It's not just about how soon Rodgers isn't symptomatic anymore - he probably already feels great - he's got to pass 2 tests at least 24 hrs apart to be eligible to come off the COVID list.

 

Had he tested positive just after the Cardinals game over that weekend or early last week, then yes I'd say the odds of him having no issues getting activated for the Seahawks game would've been really good. But 1st testing positive 11 days out makes that window very tight.

[BillScottCanRake]

Unsurprisingly, Love's performance was a mixed bag. I don't remember him doing anything blooper worth, like running into a back or lining up under guard. The botched snap appeared to be on Patrick, not him.

He moved around better than I thought, even if he sometimes moved a bit prematurely. His accuracy was not great outside of a couple of throws, but I think he really only made two questionable throws (the scrambled throw to Cobb and the one to Dillion that almost got picked). The one which was actually picked was more a poor throw than a poor decision, I think. For the most part he did a decent job throwing the ball away rather than forcing things.

 

All that said, I don't think we learned a ton about what Jordan Love will become if/when he becomes a full time starter; I think he flashed enough both ways that whatever you thought he was going to be before the game you probably still think he will be after. If you compare his play to Rodgers in year 1 and 2, Love wasn't any worse or any better. In Aaron Rodgers first extended action as a Packer, as a rookie in 2005, he was 8-15 for 65 yards, 0 TDs and 1 INT and a sub-40 passer rating. As a second year player, Rodgers second game of extended action he was 4-12 for 35 yards, 0 TDs and 0 INTs. The game everyone remembers came in year 3 against Dallas, and it is clear Love isn't there yet.

[nodakfan17]

Isn’t it possible for someone who recently had COVID to continue to test positive for months despite not showing symptoms or being contagious? For that reason, I don’t understand how Rodgers could be required to pass a COVID test before next Sunday. I think he just needs to wait 10 days from when he began showing symptoms or first tested positive.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Isn’t it possible for someone who recently had COVID to continue to test positive for months despite not showing symptoms or being contagious? For that reason, I don’t understand how Rodgers could be required to pass a COVID test before next Sunday. I think he just needs to wait 10 days from when he began showing symptoms or first tested positive.

 

I think it might be quarantine for 10 days and also not be showing any more symptoms, and not pass a test - my mistake initially.

 

Assuming Rodgers is symptom-free, he'll be activated Saturday....

[ThisIsMyCrew]

With how much pressure Love was under, I was surprised they kept him under center as much as they did. Out of the shotgun would give him a better shot in theory. Color me crazy, but I was relatively impressed with Love. Lots or pressure, especially up the middle, and he limited mistakes. Led a few solid drives. Made some good throws. Arm strength was there. Eye test vs stat line for me.

[RobDeer 45]

Do you think us Packer fans might not be the best ones to judge a new young qb????? We only have two years of experience out of the last 30 or so.

[LouisEly]

I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so. Although he certainly isn't the entire reason for the loss, Love ain't it, folks. He was a project quarterback that led the nation in interceptions and had no business being a first round draft pick. Yes, Rodgers may be an insufferable diva jerk that I certainly wouldn't want to be friends with, but the fact is when Rodgers doesn't play, the Packers lose. Memo to MM and Gute: What Aaron Rodgers wants, Aaron Rodgers gets. Otherwise it's back to the Dan Devine/ Bart Starr days.

 

I guess Mahommes ain't it either. Love outplayed him.

 

See, I can make terrible assumptions as well!

And if you judge Rodgers based on the Saints game this year, he ain't it either.

 

Hell, Love outplayed Rodgers that game...

[LouisEly]

With how much pressure Love was under, I was surprised they kept him under center as much as they did. Out of the shotgun would give him a better shot in theory. Color me crazy, but I was relatively impressed with Love. Lots or pressure, especially up the middle, and he limited mistakes. Led a few solid drives. Made some good throws. Arm strength was there. Eye test vs stat line for me.

Agreed. They outgained the Chiefs 301 yards to 237 and Love had more passing yards than Mahomes, 179 to 160.

 

Average starting field position was GB 24, GB 25 (should have had FG), Chiefs 37 (blocked FG), then GB 2, GB 22, (end of half kickoff I'm not counting), GB 12, GB 15, GB 8, and GB 47 (TD). Hard to generate a lot of points when you start inside your 25 yard line on all but two possessions.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so. Although he certainly isn't the entire reason for the loss, Love ain't it, folks. He was a project quarterback that led the nation in interceptions and had no business being a first round draft pick. Yes, Rodgers may be an insufferable diva jerk that I certainly wouldn't want to be friends with, but the fact is when Rodgers doesn't play, the Packers lose. Memo to MM and Gute: What Aaron Rodgers wants, Aaron Rodgers gets. Otherwise it's back to the Dan Devine/ Bart Starr days.

 

I guess Mahommes ain't it either. Love outplayed him.

 

See, I can make terrible assumptions as well!

And if you judge Rodgers based on the Saints game this year, he ain't it either.

 

Hell, Love outplayed Rodgers that game...

 

Exactly. My post was simply to answer a poster who was using Love's mediocre performance to confirm a strong negative bias against Jordan Love and pat himself on the back in the process.

[MrTPlush]

I mean Jordan Love is pretty much doomed because Aaron Rodgers didn't decline. If Aaron Rodgers would have been declining the last few years and not looked that special the expectations would have been a lot lower....he could have simply been a draft bust and that would have been that. We could have been like, "Well Rodgers was declining and we weren't really a big Super Bowl contender anyway. We didn't miss out on much going this route." However, now it looks like we are set to dump a MVP level QB and years of Super Bowl contention for Jordan Love. Now Jordan Love needs to be good, really good. The dude needs to be good enough not to just get us to the playoffs, but be good enough to lead us to a championship. Anything less and we will forever look back and wonder how we royally screwed this situation up.

 

It is too soon to say what Love will end up being. That being said his first start was atrocious. People can try to sugar coat it with a few plays, but it was terrible. I guess what is concerning is the fact I just haven't seen a lot of promise when he has taken the field in the pre season or his first start. Yah, he does something here and there...but even the biggest busts in NFL history can do that. People can point out his career so far has had limitations due to COVID, but he still has been much better prepared than most incoming QBs tend to have these days. Many get thrown into the fire right away. Jordan Love has gotten to sit behind Rodgers and learn the entire team for a year+. He has still had multiple off seasons to learn and prepare.

 

Again, not saying he won't be successful, but it has been a bit concerning so far. Even if he does work out it looks like that could be years away. Hopefully he doesn't show some promise right before he hits FA and we get into one of those awkward situations where we pay him a massive contract in desperation just to watch him become a Kirk Cousins or Mitch Trubisky.

[brewcrewdue80]

 

Based on Rodgers' performance in 2018-2019 and what his contract looked like, it really wasn't too early to try and get a young QB into the building and developed enough to take the reins in 2022. Teams moving on from HOF quarterbacks rarely fare very well in that 1-2 season transition period, just ask Arod, who went 6-10 his first year starting in his 4th year in the league.

 

I debunked the bold statement as you make it sound like Rodgers was the reason the team going 6-10. The offense scored the 5th most points that year. But the defense allowed the 20th most points. 7 of the 10 losses were by a combined 21points with the defense allowing the opposing team to make the final score within last 3mins 24secs or less in 4th quarter. 3 of them were less than 1min 54secs in game. Now I suppose it can be said Rodgers wasn't running the 2min drill effectively like the hero QB he does now, but the following season we lost to the Cardinals in OT 51-45 to begin the Era of Defensive caused playoff losses. A team scoring the 5th most points in a season doesn't reflect a QB struggling his first year starting.

Scoring 7points(sure 13 had FGs been made) isn't a good start that Love has top 5 in NFL points potential. Granted he had long fields to work with, but not 1 throw did I think this could be taken to the house. Lazard made a play on what should have been a tackle out of bounds at the 2 or 3 yard line. It wasn't like on the throw you knew it was a TD.

I'll say it again, I do want Love starting the game this week. Get the full week to game plan knowing you are starting. GB could just reserve holding Rodgers out of the game as punishment.

[CheezWizHed]

Again, not saying he won't be successful, but it has been a bit concerning so far. Even if he does work out it looks like that could be years away. Hopefully he doesn't show some promise right before he hits FA and we get into one of those awkward situations where we pay him a massive contract in desperation just to watch him become a Kirk Cousins or Mitch Trubisky.

 

Not directly replying to you TPlush, but I'm using your comment here to make a point.

 

It really bugged me that people were all up in arms about Love being drafted because "a team drafts a first round QB to start him". Yet, all draft profiles said that he had the skills but wasn't ready yet. Plus Rodgers didn't start - for three years (nor looked great initially). Mahommes didn't start his first year (and he was ready).

 

Frankly, I was encouraged by the game, because I saw improvement right in the game. He still has work to do and things to learn. But he is already better than Hundley. And anyone remember Favre's early years when he was almost benched for Brunell? People keep talking about how the best way to win a SB is with a QB on his rookie contract, but the reason it doesn't happen often is that rookie QBs take time to develop.

[adambr2]

Again, not saying he won't be successful, but it has been a bit concerning so far. Even if he does work out it looks like that could be years away. Hopefully he doesn't show some promise right before he hits FA and we get into one of those awkward situations where we pay him a massive contract in desperation just to watch him become a Kirk Cousins or Mitch Trubisky.

 

Not directly replying to you TPlush, but I'm using your comment here to make a point.

 

It really bugged me that people were all up in arms about Love being drafted because "a team drafts a first round QB to start him". Yet, all draft profiles said that he had the skills but wasn't ready yet. Plus Rodgers didn't start - for three years (nor looked great initially). Mahommes didn't start his first year (and he was ready).

 

Frankly, I was encouraged by the game, because I saw improvement right in the game. He still has work to do and things to learn. But he is already better than Hundley. And anyone remember Favre's early years when he was almost benched for Brunell? People keep talking about how the best way to win a SB is with a QB on his rookie contract, but the reason it doesn't happen often is that rookie QBs take time to develop.

 

IMO drafting a "project" QB in the 1st round isn't really an efficient way of building a contender. Nothing wrong with sitting behind a guy for a year like Mahomes did but your biggest benefit of these young star QBs is getting them on a rookie contract. Maybe it worked a little better in the early Rodgers era but now you let a guy sit for 3 years and all of the sudden you've only got one year left of his rookie contract and its basically still an evaluation year.

 

You're comparing Favre to modern rookie QBs when you're looking at two different eras 30 years apart (and Favre was quite good in his early years). Yes this current rookie class has been a big letdown but it doesn't always work that day. Mahomes, Wilson, Herbert, Watson, Murray, these guys were very good, very quickly. Mahomes and Wilson both won SBs on their rookie deals.

 

As far as comparing Love to Hundley, well I should hope he's better than Hundley, a 5th round pick who was never expected to start in the NFL.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

You're comparing Favre to modern rookie QBs when you're looking at two different eras 30 years apart (and Favre was quite good in his early years).

 

I agree with the majority of what you said, with one minor quibble. Favre was electric at times in his first few years as a starter, but was not good by today's standards ... or even the standards back then. From 1992-1994, the Packers went 3 seasons with matching 9-7 records. They were on the perfory of contention, and there were arguments that Favre was actually holding them back. His carelessness with the ball actually got so bad that Holmgren at several points considered benching him for Ty Detmer and/or Mark Brunell. Favre didn't actually break out as an elite QB until part way through that 1994 season.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Love isn't doomed because Rodgers isn't declining. Rodgers is a mortal that ages and at some point somebody else is playing QB. I'd personally much prefer to move on to that guy with a plan, even if it fails. There's nothing worse than starting so retread vet when that time comes because there's literally nothing to cheer for.

 

I think it's fair to say they probably jumped the gun a couple years early but hindsight is 20/20. There was reason to think Rodgers might be slipping, and there's also the possibility they knew the relationship had soured a bit and a move was likely.

 

Either way I'm ok with either outcome. If they mend fences and trade Love, that's fine. If Rodgers is somewhere else next year I'm not ready to give up on Love yet. The "Love ain't it" post on the heels of one game is absurd.