Packer 2021 Team Discussion (Rodgers Out Vs. Chiefs)

[nodakfan17]

For the sake of message board sanity, I pledge not to come back and say ‘see I told you so’ if they lose.

 

The NBA/NFL comparison has its limitations, but I’d imagine the average NFL game is more of a physical punishment than an NBA game. Plus, we’re not looking at a 6-7 day recovery window this week (it’s 3-4 days).

 

And I’m not suggesting they just lay down because Adams and Lazard may not be available - it’s also MVS, Bakhtiari, Meyers, King, Alexander, Preston Smith, and Za’Darius. That’s at least 8 starters (including 4 All Pros).

 

On top of that, they’ve got a 2.5 game lead in the division and are likely to still have at least 2.5 game lead regardless what happens on TNF.

 

There has never been a better time to take a strategic loss. I don’t think it will happen and I’m not sure I’m even advocating for it. I’m just pointing out the circumstances may never be more appropriate.

[CheezWizHed]

Teams that generate the perception that it is ok to lose games because of injuries, bad calls, the fans don't cheer loud enough, our home stadium is moved to Jacksonville because of a hurricane, or whatever reason product an environment that leads to perennial losing franchises.

 

Yes, the injuries/covid situations stinks, but you put your next guys on the field and play the game. Knowing you are behind the 8-ball is much different than just rolling over on a game. Teams hardened and focused on winning - despite the circumstances - are the ones that win tight games on last minute drives despite all odds. The others look like the Lions.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I guess I don't see the point in a "strategic loss." Those guys are already out of the game, right? So what is the point of trying to lose? Avoiding another player getting hurt? Half of them are out because of a virus and a few of them may not play another down this year. I'm just not following the logic.

 

It's football. More players are getting hurt this season yet. They'd very likely still get hurt if we strategically lost. This all just sounds extremely fantasy footballish to me, I just can't get behind it any other time than Week 17 (18). Benching Rodgers and Aaron Jones or something to just willfully go 3 games behind AZ in a league where random outcomes happen weekly sounds like getting WAY too cute to me. We have Aaron freakin' Rodgers. We're not the Jets.

[nodakfan17]

I admit there’s probably an intangible benefit to taking the field on TNF with as many healthy bodies as possible. Looking back on the 2010 season, I think the team was galvanized by McCarthy’s ‘We’re nobody’s underdog’ comment and Matt Flynn’s strong play against the Patriots.

[adambr2]

For the sake of message board sanity, I pledge not to come back and say ‘see I told you so’ if they lose.

 

The NBA/NFL comparison has its limitations, but I’d imagine the average NFL game is more of a physical punishment than an NBA game. Plus, we’re not looking at a 6-7 day recovery window this week (it’s 3-4 days).

 

And I’m not suggesting they just lay down because Adams and Lazard may not be available - it’s also MVS, Bakhtiari, Meyers, King, Alexander, Preston Smith, and Za’Darius. That’s at least 8 starters (including 4 All Pros).

 

On top of that, they’ve got a 2.5 game lead in the division and are likely to still have at least 2.5 game lead regardless what happens on TNF.

 

There has never been a better time to take a strategic loss. I don’t think it will happen and I’m not sure I’m even advocating for it. I’m just pointing out the circumstances may never be more appropriate.

 

Well, they're playing a direct competitor in the NFC that they may be competing with for a first round playoff bye. That alone tells me that there would indeed be better times for a "strategic loss". They're not playing the Bills.

 

I don't know what Z, MVS, Bahk, King, etc have to do with anything. Three of those haven't been available all year and King is chronically injured and frankly his replacements aren't a downgrade. It's the NFL, yes there are guys out with injury.

[nodakfan17]

I guess I don't see the point in a "strategic loss." Those guys are already out of the game, right? So what is the point of trying to lose? Avoiding another player getting hurt?.

I’m not suggesting they throw the game. They should try and win with the players who suit up. Some guys are on the fence and probably could play if the game were a must win (P. Smith, King, Bakhtiari, and MVS), but should they? Plus, Jenkins has been hurt all year even if he played Sunday. It’d be nice to get him back to 100%. Then there’s the issue of letting Rodgers take unnecessary hits …

 

They’ll do the right thing and give a full effort with the players available, but this is such an odd confluence of events (COVID, injuries, short week, long flight, etc.). I don’t think I’m wrong in raising the question.

[Point Beer Is Best]

No word yet on Adams (who is vaccinated) in terms of if he had a negative test yesterday (Tuesday), so it doesn't look good for his availability on Thursday. He needs to have 2 negative test to play.

 

Lazard (unvaccinated) is in a different situation. I haven't seen it reported that he actually had a positive test. Rather, he's been deemed a "close contact" (presumably of Adams) and by rule has to be placed on the COVID list for a minimum of 5 days which definitely rules him out for Thursday. Given the other WR's haven't been placed on the list as of now, I would assume they are vaccinated and have so far received negative test results.

 

Hopefully MVS will be activated - his ability to stretch the defense has been a missing element.

[Fear The Chorizo]

You may not be wrong in raising the question, but the answer to the question of whether key healthy players play in this game or sit out for load management is most certainly "play".

 

At this point in the season, everyone on the roster has some sort of knick or minor injury issue they're dealing with, and will continue to do so the rest of the year. Sitting out week 8 of the regular season games isn't going to make a difference in them suddenly being 100% healthy for week 9. As for other guys who've been out that may be close to being healthy, I doubt Bakh is an option just because he's only been practicing a week - him sitting tomorrow night isn't a reactive load management decision, it's part of their initial plan for getting him back on the field less than a year from tearing his ACL. P Smith could see action back on the field if he's healthy enough to go, but I doubt the sign Mercilous if they thought his oblique issue was a 1 game issue. King being out makes little difference to me - if he does suite up we all know who's getting picked on in the secondary. My hope with MVS is he was held out this past Sunday to give him a few extra days to get his conditioning back, and he's going to be on the field tomorrow - it would be valuable getting a deep threat on the field to keep the Cards defense sort of honest.

 

Even if the Packers had their full compliment of wideouts for Thursday, their gameplan should be more run-heavy against this defense to help control time of possession and open up the middle of the field for passing to tight ends.

[CheezWizHed]

No word yet on Adams (who is vaccinated) in terms of if he had a negative test yesterday (Tuesday), so it doesn't look good for his availability on Thursday. He needs to have 2 negative test to play.

 

I don't believe they are required to announce it positive or not, right? Honestly, I'd keep it a secret as long as possible (play or not) so that the other team is forced to guess on their plans. Small advantage, but why not take it.

 

Kind of sounds like the same on MVS and perhaps even Bahk (though less likely). They could activate them last minute and go.

[patrickgpe]

kind of off topic but the packers are leaving WTMJ for 97.3 FM the game starting next season. Something I never thought I'd see. Starting broadcasting the packers on tmj in 1929 according to the story i read this afternoon. another case where money talks.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The more things on FM radio, the better.

[adambr2]

Adams isn't playing. Didn't travel to Arizona.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Adams isn't playing. Didn't travel to Arizona.

 

Guy on NFL Network said if he got a negative test today and tomorrow, he could still fly to Arizona tomorrow and technically play. Longshot, though.

[nodakfan17]

The Packers are considering another stock sale:

 

https://www.wbay.com/2021/10/27/nfl-approves-potential-green-bay-packers-stock-sale/

[adambr2]

I wish I could just print out a bunch of worthless pieces of paper, charge people a few hundred dollars for them, and wink and say "you're an owner now" every time I need some cash. What an absolutely genius business model.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I think the vast majority of people are fully aware of this gimmick. But for $200 or whatever you get voting rights, shareholders meeting and access to special merch. For someone that loves the Packers I don't think it's all that horrific.

 

I know you weren't saying this, but I get more tired of sleuths thinking they've uncovered the next Bernie Madoff by alerting everyone that the stock is worthless. Like, yeah, we know. We all know. It's not much of a scam if the "victims" are willing participants.

[nodakfan17]

Prior to the 1997 stock sale, the existing 1,940 shareholders voted to give themselves a 1,000:1 split. The club then issued ~120,000 new shares. This barely diluted the voting power of the existing shareholders and, to this day, a small number of Green Bay families still control the Board of Directors. Sadly, the Nodakfan family is not one of those families and I have about as much control of the team as I do as I do Apple or Disney.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I still like the frozen tundra dirt sale they did back in the late 1990s the best.

 

As a fan I'd rather pay $200 for a piece of paper that I know cost the team I want to support maybe $0.01 to produce knowing they get the rest of the $199.99 instead of paying about that amount for a jersey that has a whole bunch of other companies/entities getting their cut before the Packers themselves profit. It's more like an annual Amazon Prime or Costco membership than anything, and frankly everyone paying that amount realizes it.

[brewcrewdue80]

[quote name="brewcrewdue80

 

The angst is just the fact that as of now' date=' every 1st round DT/DE or LB drafted behind Gary, according to profootballreference has provided more value than Gary has. He was the Uber project but legit 4 others at essentially the exact same role were on the board. Making matters worse was how high they must have thought on Savage. The fact you didn't find a trade partner to move down is why Gary was a bad pick. He's at least starting to live up to that value drafted but as mentioned above, the immediate impact should have been there at 12 not a project who becomes expensive around the time he lives up to #12. Montez Sweat is a better player drafted last of those 4 clone types after Gary. Hundreds in trade value opportunity missed.[/quote]

 

The profootballreference value stuff might have some value 10 years out, but after three years, outside of a few elite guys it seems to be mostly just playing time, whether the player was any good or not. Basically if I remember correctly, you had three defenders on the board with top 10 talent each with a different red flag that led to them being available: health (Sweat), rawness (Gary) and injury (Simmons). It actually looks like all three are going to turn out, which is pretty remarkable given draft percentages, and the Packers took the one they were likely most comfortable with. Also, outside of Sweat and Burns (who didn't fit the defense at the time as a pure speed rusher), who are the other two you're talking about? I can't remember any other pass rushers on the board who were talked about going anywhere near 12.

 

Also, there are precious few cases where you you can trade down and be sure you're still going to get your guy, and Gary (or Savage if that was the pick you were talking about) wasn't among those.

 

Christian Wilkins and Dexter Lawrence for defensive front type players. There certainly was a good group of Offensive Linemen they could have gone towards had they missed on the defensive front players similar to Gary. They didn't have to move down to where Sweat was drafted. Since he'd have been there in hindsight at earlier draft spots. It was just a spot where if you graded players on a 0-100 scale there likely was 10players or more that were say 86-88.

Sure Gary is succeeding now to the value of the draft pick just that makes him an expensive player if you extend him. That or you've got just 3 of 5 seasons of that picks value out of him before losing him. Another problem with the Love selection if he has a decent season post Rodgers.

Still see holes in Gary's game. I still don't know what his pressure the QB move that's successful is. It's just speed and bullrush with effort on chasing. He's getting better with his leverage and lean and runs in to a non mobile QB. I think his weaknesses will get exposed by a running QB like Murray potentially this week to show where I still wonder how great he really is.

 

As to the Cardinal game, I'm optimistic. Missing players aside, I don't see why we would feel like this isn't a win on paper.

[homer]

The more things on FM radio, the better.

 

Unless you live outside of WI.

 

I drove home from MI last weekend and listened to the game the whole ride.

[LouisEly]

JJ Watt officially out tomorrow. Game just got more winnable.

[OldHeidelberg]

The Packers are considering another stock sale:

 

https://www.wbay.com/2021/10/27/nfl-approves-potential-green-bay-packers-stock-sale/

 

I think they are just laying the groundwork in case they win the SB this year. The last sale fell short of expectations and I would be shocked if there is really much of an appetite for this among fans without the SB afterglow. With Rodgers maybe leaving Murphy probably realizes there may not be another good opportunity to hold another sale for a few years and it looks better if you mention it now than announcing it after another SB win.

 

Edit: on Wikipedia it says demand exceeded expectations in 2011. Not sure what I am remembering, maybe something midway through the sale but they had a late surge

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

JJ Watt officially out tomorrow. Game just got more winnable.

 

Looks like he needs shoulder surgery and is likely out for the season.

 

Consider that a bullet dodged.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The more things on FM radio, the better.

 

Unless you live outside of WI.

 

I drove home from MI last weekend and listened to the game the whole ride.

 

Yeah...I didn't really think of that. These days I find myself doing a lot of Packers/Brewers/Bucks radio at home as I can do other things more easily while it's on. And my nicer bluetooth things don't connect to AM.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

JJ Watt officially out tomorrow. Game just got more winnable.

 

Looks like he needs shoulder surgery and is likely out for the season.

 

Consider that a bullet dodged.

 

That stinks. Guy just can't catch a break health-wise.