Packer 2021 Team Discussion (Rodgers Out Vs. Chiefs)

[PeaveyFury]

I just don't think King is very good. I can live with him as depth but that's about it.

 

His best year, 2019, he was basically statistically average overall and that was with really high level red zone performance which is something that has been shown not to be a sustainable metric.

 

I think particularly with guys who are longer tenured Packers who get a 2nd or 3rd deal, we often try to talk ourselves into thinking that they are better players than they really are and in general they continue to perform at the same mediocre level. AJ Hawk, Brad Jones, BJ Raji, etc.

 

I really don't understand the continued negative commentary on the transaction. First, King is a longer-tentured Packer? He's been here four seasons.....

 

Second, it's a one year deal for a low amount of cash, an even lower cap hit, and no long-term commitment on a 'prove-it' deal. That's not the equivalent of signing an average guy to a 3/4 year extension for a moderate amount of money. Quite literally the opposite.

 

Honestly, if prior to the NFC Championship game you'd have been told that the Packers signed King to a 1 year, $4.5 million extension, would anyone have been upset? People keep acting as though this is their only move in the secondary. Yeah, it could be. But I'd bet a lot of money it's not. And the offseason is far from over.

[adambr2]

I just don't think King is very good. I can live with him as depth but that's about it.

 

His best year, 2019, he was basically statistically average overall and that was with really high level red zone performance which is something that has been shown not to be a sustainable metric.

 

I think particularly with guys who are longer tenured Packers who get a 2nd or 3rd deal, we often try to talk ourselves into thinking that they are better players than they really are and in general they continue to perform at the same mediocre level. AJ Hawk, Brad Jones, BJ Raji, etc.

 

I really don't understand the continued negative commentary on the transaction. First, King is a longer-tentured Packer? He's been here four seasons.....

 

Second, it's a one year deal for a low amount of cash, an even lower cap hit, and no long-term commitment on a 'prove-it' deal. That's not the equivalent of signing an average guy to a 3/4 year extension for a moderate amount of money. Quite literally the opposite.

 

Honestly, if prior to the NFC Championship game you'd have been told that the Packers signed King to a 1 year, $4.5 million extension, would anyone have been upset? People keep acting as though this is their only move in the secondary. Yeah, it could be. But I'd bet a lot of money it's not. And the offseason is far from over.

 

I never said it was our last move. And I said I can live with him as depth. I just said I don't think he's very good and we probably make him out to be better than he is. That is all. I don't think the contract is bad. He's just someone I probably would have moved on from at any amount. Quite frankly, I'm surprised as I figured he'd probably want a fresh start elsewhere.

 

And four seasons is a long tenured guy to me, especially in the NFL where careers are shorter compared to other professional sports. I defined that as someone on their 2nd or 3rd contract which King now is. I don't think the average entire NFL career is more than 4 seasons.

[PeaveyFury]

I never said it was our last move. And I said I can live with him as depth. I just said I don't think he's very good and we probably make him out to be better than he is.

 

Who does? No one in this thread is claiming anything beyond the fact that this is a one-year, cheap prove-it deal for a guy that has a lot to approve. Why continue to post the same thing?

[adambr2]

I never said it was our last move. And I said I can live with him as depth. I just said I don't think he's very good and we probably make him out to be better than he is.

 

Who does? No one in this thread is claiming anything beyond the fact that this is a one-year, cheap prove-it deal for a guy that has a lot to approve. Why continue to post the same thing?

 

I posted it at the time Brew posted about the Malcolm Butler signing in response to his comment on how he probably would have taken that over King. At the time it was the most recent post in the thread so I thought the context would be apparent, but I should have quoted him. Didn't think it would be this big of a deal.

[areacodes]

I think Peavey is referring to your repeated opinion on King and not a lack of quoting Brew4U for context.

[LouisEly]

The ability that King lacks is availability, which is probably the most important ability.

[adambr2]

I think Peavey is referring to your repeated opinion on King and not a lack of quoting Brew4U for context.

 

I thought the context would make it obvious why I was continuing that conversation and that it wasn't just randomly out of the blue. I was directly responding to someone. Half of the entire post wasn't even about King but rather about overrating our own veterans which wasn't something that had been repeated. Had no idea it would get under anyone's skin so much.

[adambr2]

I can change the subject. We could discuss the blockbuster signing of Joe Fortunato.

[adambr2]

Brett Favre's addiction was bad enough that it nearly killed him.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/03/25/brett-favre-opens-up-painkiller-addiction

[HiAndTight]

I agree, one more run with Rodgers, then the Jordan Love era begins.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/samson-packers-will-move-on-from-aaron-rodgers-after-2021-season/

 

 

Yeah, I remember all the reporters, a few of whom "guaranteed" Rodgers had played his last snap for the Packers after this seasons NFCCG when he said his future was uncertain.

 

This is just more nonsense to me. The Packers would have to be fools to move on from Rodgers just to hope that Love is ready to take over. I'd like to see them commit and extend Rodgers, but not doing so at this point just doesn't force them to do one thing or another. I don't believe there's any world in which the Packers have already made their mind up about trading Jordan Love next year before he's taken one snap in a pre-season game.

[HiAndTight]

I just don't think King is very good. I can live with him as depth but that's about it.

 

His best year, 2019, he was basically statistically average overall and that was with really high level red zone performance which is something that has been shown not to be a sustainable metric.

 

I think particularly with guys who are longer tenured Packers who get a 2nd or 3rd deal, we often try to talk ourselves into thinking that they are better players than they really are and in general they continue to perform at the same mediocre level. AJ Hawk, Brad Jones, BJ Raji, etc.

 

 

I'm not trying to talk myself into anything with King other than...he's a better option than guys like Sherman for this defense.

 

He's tall, he's an elite athlete and he's cheap. Nobody's is arguing he's good, just that he's not AS bad as people who are leaning too heavily on the NFCCG.

 

I don't recall any of the guys you listed signing for a one year deal as cheap as King's current deal pays.

 

So pretty much the worst case scenario is we go into next year with the same group of players that was a top 10 defense without Pettine. And most people believe that the Packers will address this position early in the draft.

[pacopete4]

Interesting. Did not know. Feel for him.

[adambr2]

Interesting. Did not know. Feel for him.

 

I feel for him and totally respect his decision not to play last year.

 

However, I agree with a lot of the comments as well. Some of us don't really have a choice. It is not "selling your soul for a check." I still had to provide for my family last year. I don't have the money or luxury of just walking away for a year.

 

Regardless, hope he has a great year.

[HiAndTight]

Interesting. Did not know. Feel for him.

 

I feel for him and totally respect his decision not to play last year.

 

However, I agree with a lot of the comments as well. Some of us don't really have a choice. It is not "selling your soul for a check." I still had to provide for my family last year. I don't have the money or luxury of just walking away for a year.

 

Regardless, hope he has a great year.

 

Yeah, my guess is he was just annoyed with some of the comments. They're so ridiculous.

 

I don't think he was saying it's selling your soul to earn a check to provide for your family. That was probably a poor choice of words on his part, but I think he was responding to those upset he didn't play for the Packers last year. Even in that thread I saw people running their mouths about him not being very good, pointing out that Doctors and Nurses had to work(not sure how that's relevant).

 

I feel for him that he lost people to Covid. But tens of millions of people did. So I feel for a lot of people...it is terrible. And you couldn't see them at the end, so it was tougher than normal. Beyond that, I'm indifferent. Play, don't play, I love the game and watching it, but I get why people opted out. Do what is best for you. I remember when Raji walked away for what was supposed to be one season because two family members, IIRC, his mother and his grandma were both extremely sick. That hurt the team, but people need to do what's best for them(which is obvious to most of us, but the Tweeter is another world).

 

I guess dealing with idiots is kinda baked into an NFL players salaries, but it's sad how many of them there are.

[GAME05]

Stupid that some people would act as if a player owes them anything just because they watch the games. Funchess didn't need to justify his decision in the first place.

[pacopete4]

Nearly 1,000 TD Passed Between 2 QB’s

 

It’s been a pretty incredible 30 years(ish) of quarterback play from the Packers. A whole generation of fans that don’t know what lousy feels like for much more than a season here or there. Hopefully, Love, or whoever is next, takes the baton and runs with it eventually.

[RobDeer 45]

Not sure this has been talked about in the thread but I've been thinking about this ever since Love was drafted. Did the Packers draft Love with the thought that if Rodgers keeps playing well, we can develop and trade Love? If Rodgers has another off year, we potentially have our next qb. A win win. People have made so much about this draft pick, and I always thought it might be a great trade chip. We lucked out when this happened with Matt Flynn. It seemed like we have tried to do it at other times as well. Other teams have had success with trading backups. Maybe this is all different because we moved up to get him. Also, the Packers would need him to play well in the preseason for the trade scenario to work out in our favor. So let's say Love has a really good preseason and Rodgers has another great season. What do you think the best move would be? What do you think Love would fetch? What do you think you could get for Rodgers?

[PeaveyFury]

Not sure this has been talked about in the thread but I've been thinking about this ever since Love was drafted. Did the Packers draft Love with the thought that if Rodgers keeps playing well, we can develop and trade Love?

 

I'm certain that was at least an option that they've considered over the past year, and one that will be heavily considered 10 months from now if Rodgers has another MVP-level season.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Not sure this has been talked about in the thread but I've been thinking about this ever since Love was drafted. Did the Packers draft Love with the thought that if Rodgers keeps playing well, we can develop and trade Love? If Rodgers has another off year, we potentially have our next qb. A win win. People have made so much about this draft pick, and I always thought it might be a great trade chip. We lucked out when this happened with Matt Flynn. It seemed like we have tried to do it at other times as well. Other teams have had success with trading backups. Maybe this is all different because we moved up to get him. Also, the Packers would need him to play well in the preseason for the trade scenario to work out in our favor. So let's say Love has a really good preseason and Rodgers has another great season. What do you think the best move would be? What do you think Love would fetch? What do you think you could get for Rodgers?

 

I think they drafted Love because Rodgers was coming off two down (for him) years in 2018 and 2019, and is in his late 30s. While we see QBs last longer than they used to, they are not immune to Father Time. You draft a uber-talented guy like Love to sit behind Rodgers for a few seasons, and then take the reigns. Yes, it is possible that plan could change if Rodgers continues to defy time and play at an other-worldly level, but the odds are that he will not. If Rodgers throws up another MVP-type season in 2021, it is certainly possible the Packers may decide to ride with him for a few more years into his early 40s. But if things go downhill, Love gives them a contingency.

 

Love wouldn't be worth anything more than a late 1st or 2nd right now, but it would make no sense to trade him, either. He provides a talented, cheap backup QB for a guy who is going into his age 38 season. If Love is going to get traded, I think it happens after the 2022 or 2023 season, which his contract gets more expensive. That would also mean Rodgers continues to perform at a high level for several more seasons.

 

I think the more likely scenario is Rodgers has an OK year in 2021, and the Packers decide to move on, dealing Rodgers. His value would depend on his health and production, but it would be propped up by his name and marketability.

[CheezWizHed]

Wolf was pretty infamous for this. Drafting and trading Brooks, Hasselback, Detmer (or did he leave in FA?), and Brunell.

 

They were all lower draft picks, however (4th, 6th, 7th, and 5th if memory serves) and not 1st round picks.

[nodakfan17]

I don’t see how Love’s value increased after a year. We know next to nothing about his development and the Packers ate up one of his ‘value’ contract years. If they are still extremely high on him, then he’s untouchable. If they have reservations about his ability to be a franchise quarterback, then I’d trade him for a 2nd or a 3rd ASAP while he still has value to people outside the organization. It’s a big mystery.

 

Trading Love would actually complicate the cap situation because he has about $7 million in amortized signing bonus that would accelerate to the current year if he were to be traded. Therefore, I think he’s only traded if 1) someone offers a 1st round pick or 2) they know they whiffed and want to recoup some value.

[PeaveyFury]

I don’t see how Love’s value increased after a year.

 

I think that's why you'd look to trade him AFTER the 2021 season, not now. If you're even interested in trading him at all.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I don’t see how Love’s value increased after a year. We know next to nothing about his development and the Packers ate up one of his ‘value’ contract years. If they are still extremely high on him, then he’s untouchable. If they have reservations about his ability to be a franchise quarterback, then I’d trade him for a 2nd or a 3rd ASAP while he still has value to people outside the organization. It’s a big mystery.

 

Trading Love would actually complicate the cap situation because he has about $7 million in amortized signing bonus that would accelerate to the current year if he were to be traded. Therefore, I think he’s only traded if 1) someone offers a 1st round pick or 2) they know they whiffed and want to recoup some value.

 

Who was claiming that Love's value has increased? I must have missed that if someone did.

[nodakfan17]

I don’t see how Love’s value increased after a year. We know next to nothing about his development and the Packers ate up one of his ‘value’ contract years. If they are still extremely high on him, then he’s untouchable. If they have reservations about his ability to be a franchise quarterback, then I’d trade him for a 2nd or a 3rd ASAP while he still has value to people outside the organization. It’s a big mystery.

 

Trading Love would actually complicate the cap situation because he has about $7 million in amortized signing bonus that would accelerate to the current year if he were to be traded. Therefore, I think he’s only traded if 1) someone offers a 1st round pick or 2) they know they whiffed and want to recoup some value.

 

Who was claiming that Love's value has increased? I must have missed that if someone did.

I wasn’t referencing a specific post. This group is pretty grounded. If I’m being objective, I think Love’s trade value ceiling is probably a 2nd and a 5th (assuming someone is still high on him). I’m not expecting a Ron Wolf scenario where a rival GM identifies Love as a franchise QB and does whatever it takes to acquire him. I doubt he’s traded anyway.

[RobDeer 45]

Yes I guess the big difference between QBs now and then is that the old way of doing it was to sit rookies for several years to get them ready. Therefore if a team was good at developing them, there was good trade value. Now QBs are ready early, and the way contracts work, they are cheap when they are young. Back then, if you took a QB early you had to pay big bucks, so the value was in the late round developed guys. I was guessing we couldn't get much more than the pick we used on him and my guess was it would be less. The only way I thought it could change was by showing some real talent in the preseason. But his value is less because he'd already be a couple years in to his rookie contract.

 

The more I talk through this, I think if Love does show real signs of being good, we will be moving on from Rodgers sooner than later. So what's the best scenario???? Rodgers plays pretty good, we win the super bowl, we trade him for a bunch of picks, and Love becomes the next long term winning QB in GB. Too much to ask?