Packer 2021 Team Discussion (Rodgers Out Vs. Chiefs)

[HiAndTight]

Just took the interview to make his future resume look better.

 

I really doubt that. He's already interviewed with the Rams, he's had the chance to leave for some of the top programs in the Country.

 

How does not taking a job make his resume look better when he's already passed on a very similar job at the NFL level and at much more high profile jobs at the D-1 level?

[adambr2]

While I admit I don't really know much about Barry, I do know that two prior organizations took a chance on him as DC and he was not successful for either. I have no doubt that talent was part of it, but that's not a great place to start. In the absence of getting the guy we really wanted I'd rather take a shot on an up and comer with some fresh ideas rather than a recycled product.

 

Barry might be the right guy with some talent, but he also might be one of many guys who is just a lot better suited as a position coach than a coordinator.

[balsamlaker]

Hoping the lack of news (from the Packers) today is because they would like to meet next week with one of the DL coaches in the Super Bowl. I would say both are potentially stronger candidates than the DL coaches they have already interviewed. Both defenses in the Super Bowl are also very "blitz heavy", which seems like a direction LaFleur may want to take?

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

According to Demovsky, the Packers have picked Joe Barry as their new D Coordinator.

 

I've been very excited about Lefleur's choices in the past. This is a huge swing and a miss, though. Hope Joe proves me wrong.

[adambr2]

According to Demovsky, the Packers have picked Joe Barry as their new D Coordinator.

 

I've been very excited about Lefleur's choices in the past. This is a huge swing and a miss, though. Hope Joe proves me wrong.

 

Yeah, I'm really disappointed.

 

I'll try to have some blind faith about it but LaFleur’s only other handpicked coordinator has been Shawn Mennenga so it's certainly not easy.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I'm pretty meh on it. If you're CB2 is Chandon Sullivan it doesn't matter if Buddy Ryan is calling the shots.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I'm guessing the Packers' defensive philosophy in 2021 is going to be more offense. I expect the Packers find a way to give Rodgers a few more weapons this year, and we'll likely see a bunch of 42-38 games.

[homer]

I'd have rather just stuck with Pettine.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I'd have rather just stuck with Pettine.

 

I would have been more excited about a complete unknown like Eviro. Barry just has nothing in his past that inspires confidence that he can help them improve.

 

But then, I was huge fan of Pettine's hire, so what do I know? Maybe Barry will be great?

[HiAndTight]

I'm guessing the Packers' defensive philosophy in 2021 is going to be more offense. I expect the Packers find a way to give Rodgers a few more weapons this year, and we'll likely see a bunch of 42-38 games.

 

 

I don't see why it'd change. They've got as much young talent on that side of the ball as they've had in a very long time.

 

I don't know much about Barry, but I know Pettine was bad and I expect the defense to be better next year. Most like they were in the 2nd half of the season and if Savage and Gary can take another step and we add a solid starter at DE, this unit should finish in the top 5-6 in the NFL.

[balsamlaker]

Joe Barry was not "my choice", but I will keep the hope and try not to judge despite the past with two years in Detroit with Shaun Rogers probably being the best player (for only one year) and two years in Washington with your two best players probably being Kerrigan and maybe Will Compton. The "cupboard" is definitely fuller than he has had as a coordinator...that is what my hope is in for him.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I think the Packers finished 9th in overall defense. Pettine lost his job largely due to one play.

 

My gut reaction is that the Packers defense wasn't actually 9th best, but I think all fans gloss over how bad most defensive play is now, or rather how hard it is to play defense.

 

If they win without that hail mary happening would he really not be back? I think it just gave MLF an excuse to move on from a guy he didn't really want to have to begin with.

[adambr2]

I think what is a little troubling about this hire is that Leonhard and Barry were literally offered the job on the same day. They're nothing alike. You went from offering the job to a 38 year old young up and comer from the college ranks without any NFL coaching experience, to a journeyman 50 something retread.

 

That doesn't suggest that MLF has any real vision for this defense. It looks like he didn't expect Leonhard to turn it down, panicked and just hired the next guy on his list. It's a bit baffling. If Barry was his first choice I could at least wrap my head around the idea that maybe he just wanted someone experienced for a quicker transition, but he was going to go a totally different route.

 

Everything about Barry's career just screams great position coach, and totally in over his head as defensive coordinator. I hope I'm wrong.

[HarveysWBs]

The ONLY thing that is keeping me off the ledge as a fan after this decision is the fact that both LaFleur and Hackett have achieved considerably better results in Green Bay than in their previous gigs. But Barry’s track record is another kind of bad compared to those two. To go from Leonhard to this is pretty cringey. But I try to remember I’m just a dude with a phone and a worthless piece of stock on my wall. What do I know?

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I'll hold judgement. There's no way this hire was made without thorough vetting. MLF is best friends with McVay.

 

I don't think he went in a totally different direction. He likely knew Leohnard was a pipe dream and had the other two in his sights. Probably would have hired Barry two years ago but there was no justification for firing Pettine at the time.

[HiAndTight]

I think what is a little troubling about this hire is that Leonhard and Barry were literally offered the job on the same day. They're nothing alike. You went from offering the job to a 38 year old young up and comer from the college ranks without any NFL coaching experience, to a journeyman 50 something retread.

 

That doesn't suggest that MLF has any real vision for this defense. It looks like he didn't expect Leonhard to turn it down, panicked and just hired the next guy on his list. It's a bit baffling. If Barry was his first choice I could at least wrap my head around the idea that maybe he just wanted someone experienced for a quicker transition, but he was going to go a totally different route.

 

Everything about Barry's career just screams great position coach, and totally in over his head as defensive coordinator. I hope I'm wrong.

 

 

They interviewed him twice. But you think that as soon as Leonard turned him down he "panicked" for some reason and just hired Barry?

 

C'mon...they've been talking about Candidates since the season ended and had...what, 15 interviews. Would you be claiming LaFleur "panicked" if he hired Evero?

 

They narrowed it down to two finalists. When their first choice turned them down, they moved on to their next one. I don't know what about that suggests they panicked in any way.

 

The two most common words I've heard in recent days from those around the league who know new Packers DC Joe Barry were: Energetic and aggressive.

 

Doesn't really sound like they're "nothing alike," other than one is younger and coaching in College.

 

Everything about Barry's career just screams great position coach, and totally in over his head as defensive coordinator.

 

No...it doesn't. I've already listed the lineup he had with the Lions. Those were the MATT MILLEN LIONS They had MAYBE one or two players who would start for an average team...and he still managed to get them to at least finish in the top 3 in takeaways..

And then again, the model franchise that is Washington. Bill Bellichick would have been giving up 35 a game.

 

Honestly though, what defensive coach do you think could have reasonably been expected to turned those awful Lions teams that had QB's running out of the back of the endzone...into a solid defense?

 

His teams WERE in the top 3 in FF's and Fumble recoveries in the four seasons he coached for that two laughingstocks. Does that mean he's going to be a good DC? Of course not. The only things you can say with ANY degree of certainty about him at this point is he's coached two teams with VERY little talent on them and his defenses seem to be pretty good at forcing fumbles. That's about it.

 

Again, kinda like saying LaFleur was "totally in over his head" as an offensive coordinator because his offense was terrible in Tennesee.

[adambr2]

Obviously being over his head as a DC and more suited to be a position coach is MY opinion. We'll see. It seems like it to me. I know I can't say it for sure. But it's a really uninspiring hire.

 

And I don't know how you can compare it to Lafleur. Lafleur was unproven in this gig. Barry has had shots. Yeah, the Lions stunk. But you'd like to have a little better accolades for your new DC than to say, "Well, his players stunk. What do you expect?"

 

Washington's defense was not THAT bad. He had Kerrigan. He had Preston Smith. He had Josh Norman. He had Breeland. To say there was very little talent on that D just isn't really accurate.

 

He still had the worst 3rd down defense in football and couldn't stop the run a lick.

 

I hope it works out. But I hate the hire.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

These unit ranking arguments are the exact same ones that were made against MLF. And Mike McCarthy.

 

McCarthy isn't the most popular guy but he was incredibly successful by any measure from 2006-2014 even with marginal teams. He played a major role in getting the Packers back to respectability and before he overstayed his welcome.

 

How many coaches were on those teams in Detroit and Washington? They all just suck? It just doesn't hold any weight to me. Maybe he does suck, but there's no way to know based on those gigs. He's obviously got a solid reputation. I'm happy to give him a chance in a much better situation.

[adambr2]

I'm just disappointed in the same way that I'm disappointed on draft day when the guy I wanted fell to us and we took some guy I never heard of instead. I realize I could end up being wrong.

[brewcrewdue80]

I think the Packers finished 9th in overall defense. Pettine lost his job largely due to one play.

 

My gut reaction is that the Packers defense wasn't actually 9th best, but I think all fans gloss over how bad most defensive play is now, or rather how hard it is to play defense.

 

If they win without that hail mary happening would he really not be back? I think it just gave MLF an excuse to move on from a guy he didn't really want to have to begin with.

 

A lot can be said on GBs ToP that helped the defense finish 9th and gut feel like it wasn't 9th best. Maybe they can come up with a yards and Points allowed per minute stat that could better place where GB's defense sat. I see a site called teamrankings. It's not by minute but by play- GB was 16th for points by. and 12th in yards by. Lead the league in ToP by 1:02 on 2nd place. Just over 5mins on last.

[Mr Southpaw]

Jim likes Madison and UW a whole heck of a lot. The Packers may be Wisconsin's team, but i think his heart is with UW foootball.

 

I guess you were right, but I was right too. Some people are just content where they are.

[HiAndTight]

Obviously being over his head as a DC and more suited to be a position coach is MY opinion. We'll see. It seems like it to me. I know I can't say it for sure. But it's a really uninspiring hire.

 

And I don't know how you can compare it to Lafleur. Lafleur was unproven in this gig. Barry has had shots. Yeah, the Lions stunk. But you'd like to have a little better accolades for your new DC than to say, "Well, his players stunk. What do you expect?"

 

Washington's defense was not THAT bad. He had Kerrigan. He had Preston Smith. He had Josh Norman. He had Breeland. To say there was very little talent on that D just isn't really accurate.

 

He still had the worst 3rd down defense in football and couldn't stop the run a lick.

 

I hope it works out. But I hate the hire.

 

 

I can compare it too LaFleur because people made the same complaint when he came in.

 

And yes, Washington had VERY little talent on defense. You're using Bashaud Breeland to help make your argument.....which I kinda think makes mine.

[HiAndTight]

These unit ranking arguments are the exact same ones that were made against MLF. And Mike McCarthy.

 

McCarthy isn't the most popular guy but he was incredibly successful by any measure from 2006-2014 even with marginal teams. He played a major role in getting the Packers back to respectability and before he overstayed his welcome.

 

How many coaches were on those teams in Detroit and Washington? They all just suck? It just doesn't hold any weight to me. Maybe he does suck, but there's no way to know based on those gigs. He's obviously got a solid reputation. I'm happy to give him a chance in a much better situation.

 

 

 

Exactly. He might suck, but don't tell me he sucks because he was bad in Detroit or Washington. Both places have had a lot of good coaches over the years and they've continued to challenge the Jets for the worst run franchises in professional sports.

 

 

We'll see this next year though. This defense should be pretty good based on their talent.

[adambr2]

Obviously being over his head as a DC and more suited to be a position coach is MY opinion. We'll see. It seems like it to me. I know I can't say it for sure. But it's a really uninspiring hire.

 

And I don't know how you can compare it to Lafleur. Lafleur was unproven in this gig. Barry has had shots. Yeah, the Lions stunk. But you'd like to have a little better accolades for your new DC than to say, "Well, his players stunk. What do you expect?"

 

Washington's defense was not THAT bad. He had Kerrigan. He had Preston Smith. He had Josh Norman. He had Breeland. To say there was very little talent on that D just isn't really accurate.

 

He still had the worst 3rd down defense in football and couldn't stop the run a lick.

 

I hope it works out. But I hate the hire.

 

 

I can compare it too LaFleur because people made the same complaint when he came in.

 

And yes, Washington had VERY little talent on defense. You're using Bashaud Breeland to help make your argument.....which I kinda think makes mine.

 

Good enough to start for a team that won the Super Bowl last year but not good enough to use as an example of the talent that Barry had to work with?

 

Breeland is solid. He's head and shoulders better than Kevin King as a #2 corner. If you'll downplay him as a good player that Barry had to work with than nothing I say will convince you otherwise.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

So what you guys are saying is that Barry was dealt a poor hand with both his DC opportunities, but failed to gain any ground in the poker game. I would say that, given the talent he inherits on the defensive side of the ball in GB, he's been dealt a very good hand now. Let's see if that improves his poker playing ability. I will say that when his former players are asked to give an assessment on him, the words "passionate" and "aggressive" continue to come up. That gives me at least some hope, although I'm still not a fan of the hire.