Packer 2021 Team Discussion (Rodgers Out Vs. Chiefs)

[PeaveyFury]

LTBE incentives count against the cap so hopefully these are not them but he still hits them.

 

Depends on LTBE or NLTBE, so the incentives matter. The chatter on Twitter suggests NLTBE for King. If, for example, he has a $500k Pro-Bowl incentive, it's NLTBE since he hasn't been a pro bowler, and that doesn't count on the 21 cap.

[adambr2]

I think some fans are going to be much less forgiving of our lack of a pursuit of an upgrade for Kevin King in the fall when Jaire is falling asleep on the field from the lack of balls thrown his way with King getting constantly picked on over on the other side. You don't think that's going to happen again in January against Brady, or Dak, or Stafford? That's absolutely going to happen again if we stick with the status quo at CB.

 

King was a major, major reason we didn't go to the Super Bowl. I don't put the play before halftime all on him, more like 75% coaching/25% King, but he sucked the whole game, not just on that play. He's not even that good even at his best. It's not like we're talking about a guy who is usually a Pro Bowl caliber corner who just had an off game. His best ain't even that good.

 

If the plan is just to bring back King as a nickel, make another signing or draft a starting CB early to play over King, then I can agree with that move. But I don't think that's what this is.

[nate82]

I don't believe Fuller was ever an option for the Packers. I think he had his heart set on returning to play with Fangio and I know the Bears tried to trade him before he was released. I don't think any team even had a possibility in signing him.

[adambr2]

Hey, it's possible. For all I know we offered Fuller 1 year/11M from the minute he was released and Fuller looked at the long game and thought, "If I take a 1 year prove it deal, where can I go to set myself up the best for my last big multi-year deal at this time next year?"

[adambr2]

Maybe tomorrow Rodgers will have a restructured contract and Richard Sherman will sign here on a 1 year deal.

[nate82]

From reading all of the stories on Fuller's release it sounded like he wanted to be with Fangio. It was where he felt comfortable in going and wouldn't have to learn a new system and new coaches.

[pacopete4]

Andy Herman Tweet

[adambr2]

Steven Nelson was cut by the Steelers and would make a nice addition as well.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Andy Herman Tweet

 

Herman is right. King is a decent starting CB when healthy. But is currently drenched in the stink of the worst game of his career on the biggest stage. Hopefully he'll use it as motivation to come out and have a good yeaer.

[pacopete4]

Andy Herman Tweet

 

Herman is right. King is a decent starting CB when healthy. But is currently drenched in the stink of the worst game of his career on the biggest stage. Hopefully he'll use it as motivation to come out and have a good yeaer.

 

Yep. It is impossible not to have a clouded judgment on the guy considering what his last game looked like. Hopefully, we will get his best for a year because he will be looking to cash in after this I would think. If we get that, this is a very good move for the Packers.

[adambr2]

King isn't a good corner, whether you throw out the NFCCG or not. There isn't a huge upside here to unlock. He's injured a lot and contrary to popular belief is not even a good starting corner when healthy.

 

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2021/3/23/22346534/grading-analytics-say-packers-re-signing-of-kevin-king-is-a-poor-investment

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I think some fans are going to be much less forgiving of our lack of a pursuit of an upgrade for Kevin King in the fall when Jaire is falling asleep on the field from the lack of balls thrown his way with King getting constantly picked on over on the other side. You don't think that's going to happen again in January against Brady, or Dak, or Stafford? That's absolutely going to happen again if we stick with the status quo at CB.

 

King was a major, major reason we didn't go to the Super Bowl. I don't put the play before halftime all on him, more like 75% coaching/25% King, but he sucked the whole game, not just on that play. He's not even that good even at his best. It's not like we're talking about a guy who is usually a Pro Bowl caliber corner who just had an off game. His best ain't even that good.

 

If the plan is just to bring back King as a nickel, make another signing or draft a starting CB early to play over King, then I can agree with that move. But I don't think that's what this is.

 

One of the biggest problems with King is that he can't play anywhere else. He can't play the slot. He can be a "nickel" in certain scenarios if he stays outside but you couldn't match him up like you could with Jaire. But they were still really close to the Super Bowl with him playing all year. You just have to hope they get back there again and have the same kind of chance.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

King isn't a good corner, whether you throw out the NFCCG or not. There isn't a huge upside here to unlock. He's injured a lot and contrary to popular belief is not even a good starting corner when healthy.

 

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2021/3/23/22346534/grading-analytics-say-packers-re-signing-of-kevin-king-is-a-poor-investment

 

You can be mediocre but durable, or an injury risk and good, but King is the worst of both categories. There's no huge upside to unlock, but he was a passable CB2 the year before, on a worse defense. If he can slap together a meh season he might work for a year. He's definitely had stretches of a few games where he looks decent enough. But he's never going to live up to his draft status.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

King isn't a good corner, whether you throw out the NFCCG or not. There isn't a huge upside here to unlock. He's injured a lot and contrary to popular belief is not even a good starting corner when healthy.

 

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2021/3/23/22346534/grading-analytics-say-packers-re-signing-of-kevin-king-is-a-poor-investment

 

No team can afford to put "good" at every position, though. King has the ability to be a league-average, serviceable CB, and a cheap deal like this makes sense for a team that has little depth at that position. I fully expect them to draft a corner early next month, and this move allows them to not have to throw that rookie immediately into the fire.

[PeaveyFury]

There's no huge upside to unlock

 

I'm not certain that this is accurate. I'm at least willing to hope that a new scheme may possibly play to his strengths better. Hence, a one-year trial seems reasonable.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

King isn't a good corner, whether you throw out the NFCCG or not. There isn't a huge upside here to unlock. He's injured a lot and contrary to popular belief is not even a good starting corner when healthy.

 

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2021/3/23/22346534/grading-analytics-say-packers-re-signing-of-kevin-king-is-a-poor-investment

 

No team can afford to put "good" at every position, though. King has the ability to be a league-average, serviceable CB, and a cheap deal like this makes sense for a team that has little depth at that position. I fully expect them to draft a corner early next month, and this move allows them to not have to throw that rookie immediately into the fire.

 

That's true but corner is an awfully important one to not have a good starter. Would you rather splurge there and let Aaron Jones walk, knowing you have AJ Dillon? I don't know if that was even a real option, but I think that is what irks people. The investment in what are deemed less important positions or positions of depth, while an area of weakness doesn't get better. It's a bit too fantasy football for me, but that seems to be where people are coming from.

[adambr2]

King isn't a good corner, whether you throw out the NFCCG or not. There isn't a huge upside here to unlock. He's injured a lot and contrary to popular belief is not even a good starting corner when healthy.

 

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2021/3/23/22346534/grading-analytics-say-packers-re-signing-of-kevin-king-is-a-poor-investment

 

You can be mediocre but durable, or an injury risk and good, but King is the worst of both categories. There's no huge upside to unlock, but he was a passable CB2 the year before, on a worse defense. If he can slap together a meh season he might work for a year. He's definitely had stretches of a few games where he looks decent enough. But he's never going to live up to his draft status.

 

Betting on him to be the best version of himself which he has only been 1 in 4 seasons and is still only "average" seems like a really bad plan to me. I can accept that all teams have weaknesses and you can't fix everything, but this seems really unnecessary when guys like Hayward, Nelson, and Sherman are still out there and in this market likely available for 1 year contracts.

 

Maybe they still plan on signing one of these guys. Maybe they think there's something there with Josh Jackson that we haven't seen yet. I don't know. Or maybe they plan on hitting corner early in the draft and landing a starter. But going into 21-22 with the same plan and potentially leaving King out to roast against Brady in the playoffs again seems crazy to me.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Would you rather splurge there and let Aaron Jones walk, knowing you have AJ Dillon? I don't know if that was even a real option, but I think that is what irks people. The investment in what are deemed less important positions or positions of depth, while an area of weakness doesn't get better. It's a bit too fantasy football for me, but that seems to be where people are coming from.

 

The funny thing is if you do that, you still have people complaining that "there they go again, investing big money in an underachieving defense, while letting the offensive talent around Rodgers walk." The Packers' front office is truly in a no-win scenario with some fans.

[adambr2]

Would you rather splurge there and let Aaron Jones walk, knowing you have AJ Dillon? I don't know if that was even a real option, but I think that is what irks people. The investment in what are deemed less important positions or positions of depth, while an area of weakness doesn't get better. It's a bit too fantasy football for me, but that seems to be where people are coming from.

 

The funny thing is if you do that, you still have people complaining that "there they go again, investing big money in an underachieving defense, while letting the offensive talent around Rodgers walk." The Packers' front office is truly in a no-win scenario with some fans.

 

I don't care about who they appease or don't appease. I care about putting a team out there that can reach the Super Bowl one of these years. Not sure that counting on a guy who has a floor of "really bad" and a ceiling of "roughly average" at a really important position is the way to do that..

 

And truth be told, I think if we had chosen to turn the reins over to Dillon and invested big at corner, anyone beyond a casual fan would have understood exactly why we did that.

[PeaveyFury]

I don't care about who they appease or don't appease.

 

A large portion of the fan base/media does....

[pacopete4]

I like the idea of giving this group another shot at accomplishing the goal of a Super Bowl. I'm excited about it. They've won 13 games in back-to-back seasons and made the NFC Championship game. We all know that but that is a great accomplishment in itself and I like the idea of seeing this through and hoping that they figure out a way for this group to get over the top. It'll make it that much sweeter if King and co figure it out.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

The first wave of NFL free agency is pretty much done, and while many fans are bemoaning the fact that the Packers have sat out the "sign other team's players to big money deals" portion of the process, there are still a mess of players out there who make sense as Packer targets should they be able to free up enough salary cap money to make a splash or two. These are the guys I like:

 

WR/RB/KR Cordarrelle Patterson - Wouldn't be a huge money guy, but he'd be the perfect fit for this offense as the designated "jet motion" guy. He's also a very dangerous kick and punt returner, and would likely be more durable that Tyler Ervin.

 

T Eric Fisher - Coming off a torn achilles, but should be ready to go for the start of the regular season. Could fill the LT role until Bahktiari is ready, then either go to RT or play the swing tackle role.

 

T Dennis Kelly - Another solid NFL tackle who would be a nice depth signing.

 

DT Jurrell Casey - He was a house of fire for a long time with the Titans, but was injured most of last year with the Broncos. He's 32, so might be too old for anything more than a 1-year deal.

 

DT Christian Covington - Nothing real special about him, but he's only 27, and has played some decent football. Strikes me as the type of guy Gute would pursue.

 

ILB K.J. Wright - Another older free agent, but if they are looking for a leader and tone-setter, he would be a good pickup.

 

CB Steven Nelson - Solid boundary CB who would allow Jaire to shadow other team's top receivers a bit more, or even play the slot CB role that is a huge part of Barry's defensive philosophy.

[SeaBass]

King is fine. Could he be upgraded, sure. He plays opposite Alexander, stands to reason teams will challenge King more. He hasn't been a sieve where teams score huge plays at will against time after time after time.

 

R-E-L-A-X

 

(this is not to suggest that discussion about him should not take place but it feels a little dramatic at times)

[OldSchoolSnapper]

King is fine. Could he be upgraded, sure. He plays opposite Alexander, stands to reason teams will challenge King more. He hasn't been a sieve where teams score huge plays at will against time after time after time.

 

R-E-L-A-X

 

(this is not to suggest that discussion about him should not take place but it feels a little dramatic at times)

 

I'm actually glad the Packers have gotten to a place where replacing a mediocre corner is embraced as something that should happen. There was a long period of time where people defended average players like that as cornerstones of the franchise. He is basically AJ Hawk, maybe a bit worse. I got real sick of people pretending Morgan Burnett was anything more than average. You could pick basically any player on the defense and fan consensus was that he was "a good player" yet they were ranked 25th in the league. I don't want to turn this into a Morgan Burnett debate. I'm just glad we're not accepting mediocre players as acceptable anymore.

[CheezWizHed]

I'd be upset with King's signing if that is all they do with the CB position, but I'd put money that we will see a CB drafted and probably a top 3 round pick. Still wouldn't shock me to see a double CB draft too. I mentioned before, King patches a gaping hole at starting CB, but doesn't mean they can't still improve it.