Packer 2021 Team Discussion (Rodgers Out Vs. Chiefs)

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Will be a very interesting comparison to see if Patrick Peterson at $10 million has that much better of a season with the Vikings than what King will do at whatever minor cap hit he'll have.

[pacopete4]

I am okay with the reunion. I hope he can find some health for a season, give us his best, and then send him on his way to make bank elsewhere.

[homer]

I think King is average. His signing should in no way mean they avoid a CB in the draft.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

We probably would have won the NFC if 2020 Kevin King was 2019 Kevin King. At his best he's a borderline NFL starter. On some level I'm glad the Packers didn't let that one game dictate their decisions, which teams are sometimes prone to do. I would have liked an upgrade, but I am not sure one was really possible.

[PeaveyFury]

I think King is average. His signing should in no way mean they avoid a CB in the draft.

 

He has graded out pretty poorly for most of his career, though he was closer to average in 2019. At some point, his lack of ability to stay on the field plus POSSIBLY average play makes him a lost cause at CB. But, he coupled with a 1st/2nd round pick could be better overall than their other options.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Like most of these kinds of players the problem isn't that he's so absolutely terrible. It's that you pick him 33rd overall and he's the 54th best corner in the NFL. That follows you throughout your career. If he's a 5th round pick, fewer people hate him. And I believe injury problems were one of the reasons people didn't like his selection in the first place. He's one of those guys that probably lasts 10 years by being mediocre.

[PeaveyFury]

If he's a 5th round pick, fewer people hate him.

 

To you point, if he's a 5th round pick, he's cut by now and you've moved on. To Thompson's credit, he didn't compound mistakes by clinging to them with hope regardless of their draft position. He moved on quickly when guys like Harrell, Jones, etc. flamed out.

 

Feels like the Packers are chasing a bit with King. There's obviously some potential there, but he hasn't shown much of it recently.

[adambr2]

King isn't good. An upgrade WAS possible. If you were willing to go 1/6 for King why in the world wouldn't you just have spent an extra 3.5M for Fuller who actually IS good?

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

We probably would have won the NFC if 2020 Kevin King was 2019 Kevin King. At his best he's a borderline NFL starter. On some level I'm glad the Packers didn't let that one game dictate their decisions, which teams are sometimes prone to do. I would have liked an upgrade, but I am not sure one was really possible.

 

Yeah, at this point, unless you are going to sign a CB who is over 30 (which really isn't in the current GM's wheelhouse at all), the best of what's left are Brain Poole, who is more of a slot guy; Mackenzie Alexander, the former Vikings washout; Quentin Dunbar or Gareon Conley. All are pretty comparable to King as extremely inconsistent guys with some upside.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

King isn't good. An upgrade WAS possible. If you were willing to go 1/6 for King why in the world wouldn't you just have spent an extra 3.5M for Fuller who actually IS good?

 

Who's to say they didn't try? Just because there was no scuttlebutt out there that they were interested in Fuller, doesn't mean they didn't make a play for him. He had the chance to go play for a coach who made him a star as the D-coordinator with the Bears. I personally think it is a little more than a coincidence that the King deal was announced less than 24 hours after Fuller signed with the Broncos and Adoree Jackson signed with the Giants. I would be willing to bet that the Packers made calls to both.

[pacopete4]

Fuller hopped back to Vic as quickly as he was released. Let's not make this more than it is here.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

King isn't good. An upgrade WAS possible. If you were willing to go 1/6 for King why in the world wouldn't you just have spent an extra 3.5M for Fuller who actually IS good?

 

Because you can't pick him off the shelf like a box of cereal? He has to choose GB too.

[PeaveyFury]

King isn't good. An upgrade WAS possible. If you were willing to go 1/6 for King why in the world wouldn't you just have spent an extra 3.5M for Fuller who actually IS good?

 

Because Fuller's $9.5 million will be $9.5 million, while King's $6 million will be more like $2 million.

[PeaveyFury]

Also, reports this morning that they restructured their restructure of Amos, opening up another $3 something million. Voidable years were used for Amos and Crosby's new cap numbers. Silverstein is speculating that they're now about $8m below the cap.

[adambr2]

King isn't good. An upgrade WAS possible. If you were willing to go 1/6 for King why in the world wouldn't you just have spent an extra 3.5M for Fuller who actually IS good?

 

Because you can't pick him off the shelf like a box of cereal? He has to choose GB too.

 

He literally signed an offer sheet here in the past. It's not hard to surmise that he would have had interest in Green Bay if we made a strong play for him.

[adambr2]

King isn't good. An upgrade WAS possible. If you were willing to go 1/6 for King why in the world wouldn't you just have spent an extra 3.5M for Fuller who actually IS good?

 

Because Fuller's $9.5 million will be $9.5 million, while King's $6 million will be more like $2 million.

 

Do you have a link for this? I concede that it's a lot different if the contract is really for 2M instead of 6M.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

King isn't good. An upgrade WAS possible. If you were willing to go 1/6 for King why in the world wouldn't you just have spent an extra 3.5M for Fuller who actually IS good?

 

Because Fuller's $9.5 million will be $9.5 million, while King's $6 million will be more like $2 million.

 

Do you have a link for this? I concede that it's a lot different if the contract is really for 2M instead of 6M.

 

The terms haven't been released yet. I think most are simply assuming that the cap hit will be substantially less than $6 million, simply because investing a $6 million hit in Kevin King would seem like a pretty massive overpay in this environment.

[adambr2]

Well, it's great news for Tom Brady and Scottie Miller, in any event.

 

There's no way you can convince me that Kevin King being our #2 in 2021, at any dollar amount, is a good thing. And make no mistake, he is our #2. I don't see us finding his replacement at #29 and judging by recent history we're unlikely to draft for instant impact.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

King isn't good. An upgrade WAS possible. If you were willing to go 1/6 for King why in the world wouldn't you just have spent an extra 3.5M for Fuller who actually IS good?

 

Because you can't pick him off the shelf like a box of cereal? He has to choose GB too.

 

He literally signed an offer sheet here in the past. It's not hard to surmise that he would have had interest in Green Bay if we made a strong play for him.

 

Means next to nothing. He went to play for Fangio.

 

I know that you've made this "Packers don't care about taking the next step up" the hill you're dying on, but like, we get it at this point. You don't think they're doing enough. Last offseason, you were adamant they'd done nothing to close the gap between themselves and the NFC's best. Just let some things play out.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Well, it's great news for Tom Brady and Scottie Miller, in any event.

 

There's no way you can convince me that Kevin King being our #2 in 2021, at any dollar amount, is a good thing. And make no mistake, he is our #2. I don't see us finding his replacement at #29 and judging by recent history we're unlikely to draft for instant impact.

 

Nobody is trying to convince you it's a good thing. It's just not the end of the world because some of the weaknesses from last season will inevitably be weaknesses again. In the end it's all cumulative. What is AJ Dillon in year two? What kind of step forward or backwards does MVS take? Is Keke or someone else on the defense the next nice piece? All these things make a difference, we are not just playing fantasy football and locked in on solving the Kevin King problem, because there is a we chance don't have to. And the reasonable alternatives available make a difference in which problems you can solve.

 

If you move on from King and bring in the same subpar veteran corner you didn't solve a problem, you just put lipstick on a pig.

[adambr2]

I know that you've made this "Packers don't care about taking the next step up" the hill you're dying on, but like, we get it at this point. You don't think they're doing enough. Last offseason, you were adamant they'd done nothing to close the gap between themselves and the NFC's best. Just let some things play out.

 

Right, and they lost in the exact game they did the prior year. That's how it played out already.

 

No one's forcing you to respond to my opinion on their direction if you think I'm beating a dead horse.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I know that you've made this "Packers don't care about taking the next step up" the hill you're dying on, but like, we get it at this point. You don't think they're doing enough. Last offseason, you were adamant they'd done nothing to close the gap between themselves and the NFC's best. Just let some things play out.

 

Right, and they lost in the exact game they did the prior year. That's how it played out already.

 

No one's forcing you to respond to my opinion on their direction if you think I'm beating a dead horse.

 

Somehow I knew you'd say that, and I'm sorry but it's a bunch of baloney. Lack of roster talent didn't keep the Packers out of the Super Bowl last year, it clearly did in 2019. But the point was that they clearly were a better team in '20 than '19 and if you're going to tell me they weren't you're just being disingenuous. I know you're a bit of a fixed-pie absolutist type, but the team improved significantly last offseason and it was mostly because the younger guys on the team kept getting better. The result wasn't the same, I'm sorry, having a shot at the Super Bowl in the 4th quarter isn't the same as being laughed out of the building in the 1st (and given no chance to win by almost everyone before the game). They were a good team that benefited from nice scheduling and some close wins in '19, last year they were a dominant team. Didn't bounce in their way in the end but it doesn't change how good they were, and how much better they were.

[adambr2]

I never said they weren't better. They were better, and they exceeded my expectations. Don't sit there and make me sound like some kind of simpleton who is saying they were the same just because they won 13 again and lost in the same game again. I'm well aware they were improved, my point was more about the team they lost to than the Packers themselves.

 

Improvement isn't always linear; however, and simply staying the course again in a year doesn't guarantee similar results.

 

They still lost to a team that did a lot more to close the gap. Fuller would have helped close the gap. Yes, I can't guarantee he would have picked us over Denver but there's a lot of evidence to suggest there would have been mutual interest if we had made the moves necessary to accommodate his salary.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The problem I have with the argument you make is that it's simply not an honest one. You wouldn't be making it if Aaron Rodgers converts one of those drives at the end, the Packers win by 2 or 3 and go on to the Super Bowl even though such a win wouldn't have been any kind of commentary on their biggest weaknesses. When that's the margin you're working with, it just starts to feel silly to say the Packers aren't active enough in improving the team when it was literally a drive away from sealing the deal. I mean, they may have even won without DBhak getting hurt.

 

It's easier to make the argument you're making after a loss like 2019's, where the Packers, at full strength, just got thrashed by somebody clearly out of their league. I was annoyed with them last offseason too, but the strides they took in year two under MLF and Aaron playing really well makes me more inclined to just trust what they're doing. Of course I'm sure they would have liked to move on from King, but there are constraints they're dealing with that make it impossible to fix every problem they see.

 

Last season's team was about as good as one as I could have hoped for. At a certain point you just need things to break your way and instead they lost their LT, then get some bad officiating breaks in the NFCCG. It's just how it goes sometimes. It's not always that the FO is failing.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

 

Right, and they lost in the exact game they did the prior year. That's how it played out already.

 

I never said they weren't better. They were better, and they exceeded my expectations. Don't sit there and make me sound like some kind of simpleton who is saying they were the same just because they won 13 again and lost in the same game again.

 

I didn't call you a "simpleton" nor do I even know what that would mean in this context, but these were your words.