Packer 2021 Team Discussion (Rodgers Out Vs. Chiefs)

[HiAndTight]

 

Josh Jones started 13 games for the Jags last year, and if I remember right from the few games I watched the Jags, he was OK.

 

I do wonder if Jones got a bit of a raw deal since he was drafted for Capers' scheme then ended up as a bad fit in Pettine's.

 

I suppose it's similarly possible to wonder if Jackson will get a better chance under Barry's scheme as well....

 

 

I don't think so. They said he didn't know his responsibilities...and wasn't in position to make plays and wasn't instinctual. Maybe that's due in part to Pettine and his scheme, but I'm skeptical.

 

I think Pettine really would have wanted to use someone like Jones. We tried with Raven Greene, he just couldn't stay on the field. And we tried with Burks, but...well, I don't know what happened there, but the safety/LB who was supposed to be our 3rd safety/nickel LB ended up moving to OLB'er he was so unreliable there(though apparently good on ST's, not that I saw anyone who was that impressive on that unit).

 

 

We'll have to wait and see with Jackson, but I don't think he was given a fair shot. Just yesterday when someone posted Wildgoose's 3 cone time, I went back and looked up Alexanders(6.7-6.8 incidentally which was exceptional while Wildgood was not very good at 7.0...which is crazy and puts in perspective how impossible it is to comprehend the speed of the game).

 

Anyway, I saw an old scouting report with the CB's from that draft class ranked.

#1-Denzel Ward

#2-Josh Jackson

#3-Jaire Alexander

 

And Jackson was pretty good in man in College. I think it's just as possible that Pettine was not a very good DC as it is that Jackson couldn't handle the role.

 

 

So even if Berry does play a lot of man, which based on what he said about implementing the Rams scheme, he will, I still think Jackson could be a guy who can contribute.

[SeaBass]

I'm kind of keeping an eye on the wire today, as today is the best day for the Packers to restructure Rodgers if they're going to, as his modestly large roster bonus is due on the 3rd day of the league year. If they don't restructure today, it's a good indicator that they want to keep their 2022 out in play...

I read earlier this morning on a Journal Sentinel article that the league year started Wednesday at 3 pm so there was some question if that meant the third day might extend into Saturday.

[HiAndTight]

I'm kind of keeping an eye on the wire today, as today is the best day for the Packers to restructure Rodgers if they're going to, as his modestly large roster bonus is due on the 3rd day of the league year. If they don't restructure today, it's a good indicator that they want to keep their 2022 out in play...

 

 

Or they're trying to work out an extension maybe? Give him 20 million to take on a couple of those voidable years. I have heard that he wasn't that receptive to the Packers initial overtures of a possible extension, but if he wants to win a SB...he's gonna have to help out in some way with regard to the cap. Him signing the type of extension that Brady and Romo did several times could mean they'd have the ability to add Fuller+ this off-season.

 

I ralso hate the idea of moving on from him after next year. Even if it's just the Packers retaining that choice. It gives a sense they're kinda hedging to me. That's probably not fair, but...it does feel like they're looking at this as a two-year window. Rodgers contract would save money being moved next year, but it's the year after when it becomes much more likely in my opinion. That would line up with a Jones deal and a lot of the other contracts also.

[SeaBass]

I remember back when TJ Lang came out and said that Rodgers was going to "get revenge" on the Packers for drafting Love and it didn't make much sense to me that Rodgers having a MVP season and "forcing" the Packers to give him an extension amounted to revenge. But if he's resisting an extension or making it difficult for the Packers maybe that's his revenge.

 

I'm not that concerned either way. Rodgers is under contract for 3 more seasons. If he's playing hard to get over an extension the Packers might be just fine with that because if things stay the way they are now the Packers are in the driver's seat. The only way Rodgers can get out of his current contract is to demand a trade but there's a level of fan blowback attached to that that I'm not sure Rodgers wants to endure. He becomes Favre the instant that happens and it's my impression he's fought very hard to separate himself as an individual and as a QB from Favre.

[PeaveyFury]

But if he's resisting an extension or making it difficult for the Packers maybe that's his revenge.

 

That would be very poor revenge since it would directly have a negative impact on both the team AND himself...

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I remember back when TJ Lang came out and said that Rodgers was going to "get revenge" on the Packers for drafting Love and it didn't make much sense to me that Rodgers having a MVP season and "forcing" the Packers to give him an extension amounted to revenge. But if he's resisting an extension or making it difficult for the Packers maybe that's his revenge.

 

I'm not that concerned either way. Rodgers is under contract for 3 more seasons. If he's playing hard to get over an extension the Packers might be just fine with that because if things stay the way they are now the Packers are in the driver's seat. The only way Rodgers can get out of his current contract is to demand a trade but there's a level of fan blowback attached to that that I'm not sure Rodgers wants to endure. He becomes Favre the instant that happens and it's my impression he's fought very hard to separate himself as an individual and as a QB from Favre.

 

The problem with that line of thinking is that Rodgers knows he is occupying a huge part of the cap, and that makes it difficult for the team to bring in the pieces that could theoretically get them over the hump. If he truly wants to make it back to the Super Bowl, you'd think he'd be willing to work with the team to give them the best chance of making that happen.

[SeaBass]

I remember back when TJ Lang came out and said that Rodgers was going to "get revenge" on the Packers for drafting Love and it didn't make much sense to me that Rodgers having a MVP season and "forcing" the Packers to give him an extension amounted to revenge. But if he's resisting an extension or making it difficult for the Packers maybe that's his revenge.

 

I'm not that concerned either way. Rodgers is under contract for 3 more seasons. If he's playing hard to get over an extension the Packers might be just fine with that because if things stay the way they are now the Packers are in the driver's seat. The only way Rodgers can get out of his current contract is to demand a trade but there's a level of fan blowback attached to that that I'm not sure Rodgers wants to endure. He becomes Favre the instant that happens and it's my impression he's fought very hard to separate himself as an individual and as a QB from Favre.

 

The problem with that line of thinking is that Rodgers knows he is occupying a huge part of the cap, and that makes it difficult for the team to bring in the pieces that could theoretically get them over the hump. If he truly wants to make it back to the Super Bowl, you'd think he'd be willing to work with the team to give them the best chance of making that happen.

Absolutely. I of course don't have any idea what is happening behind the scenes, that is just what my idea of an extreme end of "getting revenge" would look like. We don't know if there's really anything to that, we only have words from TJ Lang.

 

Pete Dougherty had an article today in the Journal Sentinel saying that he Packers can, I believe, get from $5 to $15 million of cap room this season out of Rodgers' contract without his permission. An extension or restructure would give Rodgers more control of how long the Packers would likely have to keep him, which is what most people feel like he wants.

[pacopete4]

Packers Fans Arguing

[adambr2]

The Packers have chosen to absorb the roster bonus for Rodgers immediately and take his $37.2M cap hit for 2022 rather than convert it to free up additional cap room.

 

No matter what the Packers might say otherwise, until when/if an extension/restructuring happens, it's a good indication that:

 

1) They do not plan on being active in free agency, and

2) They want to leave the door open to move on from Rodgers easily in the coming years if need be

[pacopete4]

Maybe Rodgers doesn’t want to?

[adambr2]

Maybe Rodgers doesn’t want to?

 

They didn't need his permission.

[pacopete4]

Maybe Rodgers doesn’t want to?

 

They didn't need his permission.

 

Could be one of those things they have a discussion with him about. Rodgers may want to move on after this season.

[Fear The Chorizo]

The Packers have chosen to absorb the roster bonus for Rodgers immediately and take his $37.2M cap hit for 2022 rather than convert it to free up additional cap room.

 

No matter what the Packers might say otherwise, until when/if an extension/restructuring happens, it's a good indication that:

 

1) They do not plan on being active in free agency, and

2) They want to leave the door open to move on from Rodgers easily in the coming years if need be

 

Or they feel like they've set themselves up to deal with the 2021 cap reduction without having to restructure Rodgers this offseason, which gives them alot more flexibility to explore that next offseason when they'd probably need that extra cap availability to extend Adams, Jenkins, Alexander, Tonyan, etc.

[adambr2]

The Packers have chosen to absorb the roster bonus for Rodgers immediately and take his $37.2M cap hit for 2022 rather than convert it to free up additional cap room.

 

No matter what the Packers might say otherwise, until when/if an extension/restructuring happens, it's a good indication that:

 

1) They do not plan on being active in free agency, and

2) They want to leave the door open to move on from Rodgers easily in the coming years if need be

 

Or they feel like they've set themselves up to deal with the 2021 cap reduction without having to restructure Rodgers this offseason, which gives them alot more flexibility to explore that next offseason when they'd probably need that extra cap availability to extend Adams, Jenkins, Alexander, Tonyan, etc.

 

It really doesn't benefit them at all in the future to wait versus not doing it now. Even if they restructure now and don't spend, they can still carry over the unused cap space to next season, so this isn't really a logical explanation.

 

The roster bonus is paid and now can't be spread out to future years either now or whenever.

 

It's possible they restructure him next offseason but it doesn't benefit them more in the future to wait so they clearly wanted to leave themselves some flexibility on their future decisions with Rodgers.

[SeaBass]

Manipulating the roster bonus wasn't their only option. My understanding is they can still convert up to $13.6 million of his $14.7 million base salary to create cap room.

[HiAndTight]

Manipulating the roster bonus wasn't their only option. My understanding is they can still convert up to $13.6 million of his $14.7 million base salary to create cap room.

 

 

Yeah, but the roster bonus would have helped just that much more.

 

 

The Packers have been aggressive this off-season. I like it. More than we may have expected by keeping Jones. But what teams like the Saints and others would do to really push the proverbial chips to the center would be to extend Rodgers and add a consequential FA. To shore up one more spot.

 

Even someone like Dalvin Tomlinson would have been a pretty big upgrade. BOTH KC Tackles are still available and both should have quite a bit of football left.

 

CB's coming off the board. All areas restructuring Rodgers could help. I don't really get the logic of keeping the option of moving on from him. If you're going to even think about moving on from him, then you know you're probably going to be in a rebuilding year or at least a re-loading year, so you can take that cap hit anyway.

[HiAndTight]

Maybe Rodgers doesn’t want to?

 

They didn't need his permission.

 

Could be one of those things they have a discussion with him about. Rodgers may want to move on after this season.

 

 

There is not much to suggest it's Rodgers who wants to move on.

 

He called retiring in Green Bay "the Dream" just after the season ended and pointed out that his statement about his future being uncertain simply meant HE doesn't have control over his future(or complete control may have been his exact words).

[pacopete4]

I think those are things you say as it probably is what he would like. But he also might be seeing this two-year situation as the last window for success in GB and maybe wants to keep options open to get elsewhere late in his career. It's not like he's been a huge fan of some the front office decisions as of late so it wouldn't surprise me to see him want a shakeup.

[HiAndTight]

I think those are things you say as it probably is what he would like. But he also might be seeing this two-year situation as the last window for success in GB and maybe wants to keep options open to get elsewhere late in his career. It's not like he's been a huge fan of some the front office decisions as of late so it wouldn't surprise me to see him want a shakeup.

 

 

Why though? The window SHOULD be open as long as he is playing at a high level. The contracts of some of the Packers like Jones, Rodgers himself...and I can't think any others at the moment, but those seem like the team is viewing this as a two-year window, not him.

 

He's been pretty steadfast in his desire to stay in GB.

 

 

What he might not be willing to do is add on those bogus years at the end for some guaranteed money now. Maybe he wants to force the Packers hand so he's not in limbo. Force them to give him a 3/100 million dollar extension or something of the like and then guarantee his base salary down the road in 2023, 2024, and that is what he's not willing to do.

 

Or maybe he's willing and they're working on it. I guess who knows. It just doesn't seem great for this team for that to be hanging out there. The possibility that Rodgers could be gone after next season or the following.

[pacopete4]

The Packers might want to see what Love looks like too before making financial commitments. Maybe Love looks like the real deal after this season and they start preparing for that transition. In all reality, that would be the hope of the franchise I'm sure. Finding the "next" QB is always the hardest.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

The Packers might want to see what Love looks like too before making financial commitments. Maybe Love looks like the real deal after this season and they start preparing for that transition. In all reality, that would be the hope of the franchise I'm sure. Finding the "next" QB is always the hardest.

 

Exactly. A great number of Packer fans are going to have to eventually accept that the team is probably going to decide to move on from Rodgers before they are comfortable with it. He played at a legit MVP level last year, but is also going to be playing this season at 38, and 99.9% of QBs are either done, or close to it, by that age. If I had to guess right now, I'd say Rodgers is the QB in 2021 and 2022, with 2023 as the transition year. Of course, that could go in either direction, as there are a lot of variables in play. For instance, if Rodgers shows decline this season, I could see them moving on for 2022. Also, if he is great, I could foresee Love being traded with the idea that Rodgers is the Packers' QB in 2023 and perhaps 2024.

 

In any case, having Jordan Love – a young, extremely talented QB on a rookie contract – around for the next several seasons is far from a bad thing, whether its as the backup or perhaps more.

[PeaveyFury]

Peyton Manning threw for 4800 yards and 39TDs in his age 38 season, and he had won an MVP just the year before at 37. The very next year at age 39 he was decimated by injuries, largely ineffective when on the field, and retired following the season.

 

Drop-offs, even from an MVP-caliber season, can and DO happen quickly in the NFL, even to the other greats. I'm not shocked that the Packers want to keep their options open after 2021.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Peyton Manning threw for 4800 yards and 39TDs in his age 38 season, and he had won an MVP just the year before at 37. The very next year at age 39 he was decimated by injuries, largely ineffective when on the field, and retired following the season.

 

Drop-offs, even from an MVP-caliber season, can and DO happen quickly in the NFL, even to the other greats. I'm not shocked that the Packers want to keep their options open after 2021.

 

This was part of the point I wanted to make a few posts earlier about the Packers trying to maintain flexibility with Rodgers down the road by avoiding a restructure this year to improve their short term cap position if they could...but I neglected to include.

 

Particularly with how Rodgers' current deal is structured, if there's a catastrophic injury or unexpected cliffdive in terms of his level of play in 2021, the Packers have a reasonable way out of his contract with a manageable dead cap hit for 2022. Had they chosen to extend Rodgers a week or so ago to reduce his 2021 cap number, that reasonable way out of future cap hell likely vanishes or gets pushed another couple of seasons down the road past the point where Love likely should start playing (in GB or somewhere else if he is traded). I think the decision on what to do with Rodgers as a Packer gets made after this year - if he's still putting up elite-level production, you extend him next offseason and look into potential trade candidates for Love following 2022.

[adambr2]

There's obviously sound business reasons not to restructure Rodgers. But it's also fully clear that are actively choosing as they have done before to prioritize flexibility on the future of Rodgers over putting the best possible team around Rodgers right now. That much is clear, and it's not lost on Rodgers.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

There's obviously sound business reasons not to restructure Rodgers. But it's also fully clear that are actively choosing as they have done before to prioritize flexibility on the future of Rodgers over putting the best possible team around Rodgers right now. That much is clear, and it's not lost on Rodgers.

 

To play devil's advocate, it is sort of a two-way street, though, especially when we've seen plenty of other QBs around the NFL accept substantial pay cuts over the last few years to allow their teams to fit weapons in around them. Not saying Rodgers would or should do that, just that it is another way of looking at the situation.