Packer 2021 Team Discussion (Rodgers Out Vs. Chiefs)

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Would Adams even want to come back if Rodgers is gone after next season? I wouldn't.

 

Who knows, but I'm glad Greg Jennings and James Jones didn't feel that way. There exists a team without Aaron Rodgers and retaining Adams should be a goal without him. I think Adams would take the payday no matter who the QB is because he could blow out his knee next season. He was still pretty effective with Brett Hundley too.

[LouisEly]

Wagner could be released, saving $4.25 million, although he proved his worth last season. Amos has a $6.5 million cap hit that could be restructured to reduce it. I would imagine Billy Turner and his $8.4 million cap hit could be either restructured, or perhaps he could be on the chopping block as well with Runyan playing well in limited action. None of these are huge chunks, but when combined it becomes significant. But, of course, depth suffers.

Wagner and Turner aren't depth - with Bakh likely out until late in the season, they're the starters at OT (unless they draft an experienced OT in the first or second round).

 

Much more likely that Wagner is extended with his 2021 salary converted to a signing bonus and/or Turner's salary converted to a signing bonus over his last two years than them being released.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I love how people assume that once Rodgers is gone, this team is suddenly going to revert to the 1980s Packers where players were sent as a punishment. As much as some fans like to rag on the team for not "getting Rodgers more Super Bowls", this team is still going to be a well run cash cow after Rodgers is gone. It will still be an extremely talented team after Rodgers decides to hang up his spikes, or is traded, or however else he leaves.

[thebruce44]

At this point in my life I have to admit that I am a causal fan at best, so take this for what its worth, but isn't it important to evaluate the Packer's cap position relative to the rest of the league? There is a general talent pool and they are mostly going to be playing somewhere next year. Everyone will be dealing with the same parameters to sign this talent. If it looks like the Packers are going to be way over the cap by x amount, but there are 25 other teams who are looking like they will be over by more than x, then what is everyone worried about?

[FVBrewerFan]

At this point in my life I have to admit that I am a causal fan at best, so take this for what its worth, but isn't it important to evaluate the Packer's cap position relative to the rest of the league? There is a general talent pool and they are mostly going to be playing somewhere next year. Everyone will be dealing with the same parameters to sign this talent. If it looks like the Packers are going to be way over the cap by x amount, but there are 25 other teams who are looking like they will be over by more than x, then what is everyone worried about?

 

 

Think Brewers. They want a FA, let's say a 3B. They offer a competitive deal, but all it takes is one team with a better offer. So the Packers would want Linsley, Jones, Watt, a LB, and CB in Free Agency. They will be lucky to get one of those.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I know this wasn't your point but I don't think the Packers care about Linsley. He wasn't even approached about a contract and at 30 the odds are on the Packers side of any deal he gets now working out. I think it's obvious they went into this season knowing he was gone. I think they set a firm price for Jones and when that was declined he was gone too. None of their departing FAs really cause a crisis for them. King is probably the most likely one back just because there may not be anything better that they can get.

[thebruce44]

At this point in my life I have to admit that I am a causal fan at best, so take this for what its worth, but isn't it important to evaluate the Packer's cap position relative to the rest of the league? There is a general talent pool and they are mostly going to be playing somewhere next year. Everyone will be dealing with the same parameters to sign this talent. If it looks like the Packers are going to be way over the cap by x amount, but there are 25 other teams who are looking like they will be over by more than x, then what is everyone worried about?

 

 

Think Brewers. They want a FA, let's say a 3B. They offer a competitive deal, but all it takes is one team with a better offer. So the Packers would want Linsley, Jones, Watt, a LB, and CB in Free Agency. They will be lucky to get one of those.

 

Sorry, but how is this addressing the point I made? I feel like you are just explaining what a budget is.

[LouisEly]

At this point in my life I have to admit that I am a causal fan at best, so take this for what its worth, but isn't it important to evaluate the Packer's cap position relative to the rest of the league? There is a general talent pool and they are mostly going to be playing somewhere next year. Everyone will be dealing with the same parameters to sign this talent. If it looks like the Packers are going to be way over the cap by x amount, but there are 25 other teams who are looking like they will be over by more than x, then what is everyone worried about?

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/

 

Right now the Packers are 26th out of 32 teams in available cap space, but most of the teams with the lowest committed payroll were bad teams last year. The Bucs are 12th, but only have 44 players under contract; they need to add seven roster players and ~10 practice squad players, and even though only the top 51 count they still have to count the signing bonuses.

 

The Saints are in a world of hurt.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

And this is why this whole thing is being overblown. The Colts are high on the space list but have no quarterback. The Packers can and will get below the cap by extending some guys who were due for it anyway, restructuring where they can and releasing some pretty meh players if it comes to that. It's way too much stressing for what amounts to being unable to pay their 30 year old center and a RB who will be replaced by a 2nd round draft pick. They'll be fine.

 

There is work to be done, but this cap freakout has really taken on a life of its own. It's kind of weird.

[PinaMadness]

I love how people assume that once Rodgers is gone, this team is suddenly going to revert to the 1980s Packers where players were sent as a punishment. As much as some fans like to rag on the team for not "getting Rodgers more Super Bowls", this team is still going to be a well run cash cow after Rodgers is gone. It will still be an extremely talented team after Rodgers decides to hang up his spikes, or is traded, or however else he leaves.

Considering the team's record when Rodgers doesn't play and Jordan Love is next in line, I think it's a fair assumption.

[adambr2]

I'm not saying they'll be 4-12 but there isn't enough talent on the roster to overcome mediocre quarterback play. If Love struggles, the Packers will certainly struggle. Very few rosters can overcome lousy QB play and the ones that do typically have very elite defense and special teams .

 

A lot hinges on what they have in Love.

[Mr Southpaw]

Love is very talented and will have a lot of time to sit and watch and digest everything he needs to be a top flight QB. the only thing he won't have is the game experience, which is crucial. He may not be Rodgers, he may not be Farve, but I don't think he will be like the Bears recent dumpster fires.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I love how people assume that once Rodgers is gone, this team is suddenly going to revert to the 1980s Packers where players were sent as a punishment. As much as some fans like to rag on the team for not "getting Rodgers more Super Bowls", this team is still going to be a well run cash cow after Rodgers is gone. It will still be an extremely talented team after Rodgers decides to hang up his spikes, or is traded, or however else he leaves.

Considering the team's record when Rodgers doesn't play and Jordan Love is next in line, I think it's a fair assumption.

 

Jordan Love is an absolute blank slate. No one knows what he's going to do. If you claim to know how good of an NFL QB he's going to be, you're lying.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I'm not saying they'll be 4-12 but there isn't enough talent on the roster to overcome mediocre quarterback play. If Love struggles, the Packers will certainly struggle. Very few rosters can overcome lousy QB play and the ones that do typically have very elite defense and special teams .

 

A lot hinges on what they have in Love.

 

Davante Adams is a #1 WR regardless of who his QB is, and he's shown that. That is the top struggle of inexperienced QBs – not having a go to reciever. This team has the pieces in place to have a solid defense. I think a lot of fans tend to view Rodgers as a one-man show, and feel that the rest of the talent on the team is not up to par. Yes, they can stand to improve in some areas, but otherwise that is simply not true.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Love is very talented and will have a lot of time to sit and watch and digest everything he needs to be a top flight QB. the only thing he won't have is the game experience, which is crucial. He may not be Rodgers, he may not be Farve, but I don't think he will be like the Bears recent dumpster fires.

 

Love will get game time. Aaron Rodgers is a 37-year-old QB. Let's not kid ourselves into thinking he is infallible to injury.

[PeaveyFury]

Every time I see any article about the Packers it's the same "they have serious cap issues" and I want to just start banging my head on the keyboard. That issue is being waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overblown. There are a handful of obvious moves to make cap space. Then there are the ones they clearly have a plan for that nobody else has thought of.

 

I think this is true, though I think it's important to push back on both extreme viewpoints on this as I've done in this thread/discussions on their cap. It's irresponsible for journalists to say that the Packers are in some sort of devastatingly insurmountable cap mess, as Herman did over the weekend. That's blatantly false. Things looked much bleaker when they were looking at $176, but now that the expectations are for mid-$180s or up to $196m, the Packers have a workable situation. I get that writers can only write so many 'should the Packers sign JJ Watt?' articles right now, so I'm not surprised that some are choosing to make this a story to fill space...

 

Still, the 'There are no problems, they can just kick the can down the road a few years' folks are equally wrong. The Packers' cap situation is probably the worst it's been in over 15 years (which is a testament to the skill of the Russ Balls of the world in and of itself). It's not Thompson having to move on from 3 All-Pro caliber players as he had to in 2005 level bad, but the Packers are almost certainly going to have to A)cut a couple of guys like Smith/Wagner that are productive players that are scheduled to start on week 1, and B)involuntarily let the bulk of their UFAs walk without much chance to retain them. That's something they really haven't had to do.

 

But, as it has been clearly noted, they've got plenty of ability to both get under the cap and free up the ability to do a few things with the roster, and that's something that teams like New Orleans don't have the ability/flexibility to do. Add in the teams that have room but need to add a QB, and you end up with a lot of teams with issues.

[SeaBass]

I seriously doubt Jordan Love will be the last QB drafted by the Packers in the next 3 seasons or however much longer Rodgers will be here. It would be incredibly silly to draft one guy and call it there, he hasn't even had a proper training camp with exhibition games yet.

 

Ideally Love moves into the backup position and they start evaluating other young QBs. We've just really gotten used to having a franchise QB that's going to be a future HoF'er where the team hasn't had to expend draft capital on QBs, that luxury has pretty much ended until they have their next proven guy and probably not even then.

[adambr2]

I'm not saying they'll be 4-12 but there isn't enough talent on the roster to overcome mediocre quarterback play. If Love struggles, the Packers will certainly struggle. Very few rosters can overcome lousy QB play and the ones that do typically have very elite defense and special teams .

 

A lot hinges on what they have in Love.

 

Davante Adams is a #1 WR regardless of who his QB is, and he's shown that. That is the top struggle of inexperienced QBs – not having a go to reciever. This team has the pieces in place to have a solid defense. I think a lot of fans tend to view Rodgers as a one-man show, and feel that the rest of the talent on the team is not up to par. Yes, they can stand to improve in some areas, but otherwise that is simply not true.

 

Sorry, I just don't think history has borne this out to be true. Any absence of Rodgers in his era has resulted in total disaster. Obviously the rosters are not exactly the same now as they have been in the past, but there's many of the same pieces still here from the brief Hundley era, and a true #1 receiver is something that has been present for over 10 years.

 

I do of course think there's talent on the roster outside of Rodgers but there's no way I can be convinced that if something happened to Rodgers next year and we had to turn to Love immediately that we wouldn't be in for a really bumpy ride.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Every time I see any article about the Packers it's the same "they have serious cap issues" and I want to just start banging my head on the keyboard. That issue is being waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overblown. There are a handful of obvious moves to make cap space. Then there are the ones they clearly have a plan for that nobody else has thought of.

 

I think this is true, though I think it's important to push back on both extreme viewpoints on this as I've done in this thread/discussions on their cap. It's irresponsible for journalists to say that the Packers are in some sort of devastatingly insurmountable cap mess, as Herman did over the weekend. That's blatantly false. Things looked much bleaker when they were looking at $176, but now that the expectations are for mid-$180s or up to $196m, the Packers have a workable situation. I get that writers can only write so many 'should the Packers sign JJ Watt?' articles right now, so I'm not surprised that some are choosing to make this a story to fill space...

 

Still, the 'There are no problems, they can just kick the can down the road a few years' folks are equally wrong. The Packers' cap situation is probably the worst it's been in over 15 years (which is a testament to the skill of the Russ Balls of the world in and of itself). It's not Thompson having to move on from 3 All-Pro caliber players as he had to in 2005 level bad, but the Packers are almost certainly going to have to A)cut a couple of guys like Smith/Wagner that are productive players that are scheduled to start on week 1, and B)involuntarily let the bulk of their UFAs walk without much chance to retain them. That's something they really haven't had to do.

 

But, as it has been clearly noted, they've got plenty of ability to both get under the cap and free up the ability to do a few things with the roster, and that's something that teams like New Orleans don't have the ability/flexibility to do. Add in the teams that have room but need to add a QB, and you end up with a lot of teams with issues.

 

 

That's what I'm saying. But I'm not overly concerned about it because there are at least decent replacements on the roster. Dillon doesn't really replace Jones because they're different players, but it's hard not to be excited about what he can do. And Linsley, I get that he was good, but there was talk years ago of the Packers opting to stick with JC Tretter after Linsley came back. He's 30. I'd like to have him, but I'm not really worried about the Packers finding a replacement at center.

 

Will they be unable to fix some of the holes on the team? Absolutely true. But every team has holes.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I'm not saying they'll be 4-12 but there isn't enough talent on the roster to overcome mediocre quarterback play. If Love struggles, the Packers will certainly struggle. Very few rosters can overcome lousy QB play and the ones that do typically have very elite defense and special teams .

 

A lot hinges on what they have in Love.

 

Davante Adams is a #1 WR regardless of who his QB is, and he's shown that. That is the top struggle of inexperienced QBs – not having a go to reciever. This team has the pieces in place to have a solid defense. I think a lot of fans tend to view Rodgers as a one-man show, and feel that the rest of the talent on the team is not up to par. Yes, they can stand to improve in some areas, but otherwise that is simply not true.

 

Sorry, I just don't think history has borne this out to be true. Any absence of Rodgers in his era has resulted in total disaster. Obviously the rosters are not exactly the same now as they have been in the past, but there's many of the same pieces still here from the brief Hundley era, and a true #1 receiver is something that has been present for over 10 years.

 

I do of course think there's talent on the roster outside of Rodgers but there's no way I can be convinced that if something happened to Rodgers next year and we had to turn to Love immediately that we wouldn't be in for a really bumpy ride.

 

Of course a team is going to struggle when the QB1 who you build your gameplan around is hurt. Its apples and oranges when you are building your whole gameplan and roster around a new QB, and have ample time to do it.

[pacopete4]

JJ Watt had an Instagram story that was of his weight room and in the corner of the photo it said "all gas, no breaks".

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

JJ Watt had an Instagram story that was of his weight room and in the corner of the photo it said "all gas, no breaks".

 

Means he's going to the Jets?

[OldSchoolSnapper]

 

Sorry, I just don't think history has borne this out to be true. Any absence of Rodgers in his era has resulted in total disaster. Obviously the rosters are not exactly the same now as they have been in the past, but there's many of the same pieces still here from the brief Hundley era, and a true #1 receiver is something that has been present for over 10 years.

 

I do of course think there's talent on the roster outside of Rodgers but there's no way I can be convinced that if something happened to Rodgers next year and we had to turn to Love immediately that we wouldn't be in for a really bumpy ride.

 

It's just not the same thing. Mike McCarthy QB wiz kids Brett Hundley and Scott Tolzien vs. a first-round pick talent with multiple years in a system. I'd expect them to lose a lot of games in Love's first year, and maybe he's not any good, but there's much more reason to have faith in that than Hundley. Turning to Love next season? Yeah, they probably get crushed.

[PeaveyFury]

Panthers are releasing Kawann Short. Short has basically missed the last two seasons with a torn rotator cuff, but he was considered one of the best d-linemen in the game prior to 2019. Seems like an interesting possible reclamation project, IMO....

[adambr2]

 

Sorry, I just don't think history has borne this out to be true. Any absence of Rodgers in his era has resulted in total disaster. Obviously the rosters are not exactly the same now as they have been in the past, but there's many of the same pieces still here from the brief Hundley era, and a true #1 receiver is something that has been present for over 10 years.

 

I do of course think there's talent on the roster outside of Rodgers but there's no way I can be convinced that if something happened to Rodgers next year and we had to turn to Love immediately that we wouldn't be in for a really bumpy ride.

 

It's just not the same thing. Mike McCarthy QB wiz kids Brett Hundley and Scott Tolzien vs. a first-round pick talent with multiple years in a system. I'd expect them to lose a lot of games in Love's first year, and maybe he's not any good, but there's much more reason to have faith in that than Hundley. Turning to Love next season? Yeah, they probably get crushed.

 

I haven't compared Love to Hundley. Love is a better prospect, although Hundley was seen as a possible 2nd rounder in that draft. My point was that this team, like most teams, would struggle in the absence of good QB play. I said myself that a lot hinges on what they have in Love. Maybe he can be good. But yeah, he isn't ready now.

 

The talent on this team isn't enough to overcome and still succeed if our QB doesn't play well, that's all I was saying.