NFC Championship: Buccaneers @ Packers - Sunday, Jan 24th, 2:05 PM

[CheezWizHed]

Sorry guys, but Tampa was better than the Packers this year. There is no evidence to the contrary.

 

I think too man people are thinking about the early version of Tampa that looked very inconsistent. Once the team came together and gelled, they were clearly the better team. We did play them better the second time around and better than the Chiefs looked in the SB.

 

Whining about refs (that were bad, but consistently bad) doesn't help. Ironically, TB showed they can play well when Refs call nothing (NFC championship) or everything (SB).

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Sorry guys, but Tampa was better than the Packers this year. There is no evidence to the contrary.

 

I think too man people are thinking about the early version of Tampa that looked very inconsistent. Once the team came together and gelled, they were clearly the better team. We did play them better the second time around and better than the Chiefs looked in the SB.

 

Whining about refs (that were bad, but consistently bad) doesn't help. Ironically, TB showed they can play well when Refs call nothing (NFC championship) or everything (SB).

 

Meh. The Packers don't surrender that embarrassing touchdown to end the first half, you are looking at a 14-10 game with the Packers getting the ball. It wasn't some minor event, it was the moment the entire game went off the rails. It's a miracle to me still that GB even made it a game. That looked headed right for 45-17.

 

I will say that the defensive rankings are a joke. The Rams were the best defense? Lol. The Bucs were ranked 8th. That is not just the best defense in the league, it's probably the best defense of at least the past several years until you hit the Denver team that won the SB.

 

And the refs didn't call 'nothing.' They threw a flag when the Packers had one last gasp on a play they hadn't called all game, like 5 seconds after the play. It was nonsense. Conversely, they didn't call the same penalty that would have directly taken the deep TD off the board in the 1st half.

 

In 8 quarters of GB-TB, the Bucs were penalized 8 yards.

 

I can accept that Tampa is a better team than GB. Stating it in absolutes like it's so obvious though? It's not. And I'll go to my grave thinking they really blew this. '14 was a worse loss, but the SB with the Pats was a toss-up.

 

They got everything they needed this year and really blew it. There's no way around SF being in another class last season, or Atlanta running GB off the field the last time, but something about this just felt...different. No doubt Tampa took GB out of their game both games this year. But it always just felt like multiple self-inflicted things. Adams dropping a TD he's caught all year, Jones coughing up a TD - nearly twice if not for Tonyan falling on the first. They just got sloppy at the most inopportune time. Unfortunately, that's sort of what their identity has become.

 

I know personally I'll never believe the Packers are winning an NFCCG until they do. Don't care if they're favored by 14. I just have no confidence in this team to close anymore.

[LouisEly]

Sorry guys, but Tampa was better than the Packers this year. There is no evidence to the contrary.

IMO, the evidence to the contrary is a healthy Bakhtiari in the NFCCG. If he plays and keeps JPP at bay and gives Rodgers more time to throw, I think GB has a good chance to win that game.

[CheezWizHed]

Yep, if we don't turn it over, if we didn't have injuries, if, if, if... We lost. Twice. First step to recovery is to admit it.

 

I'm not saying we never had a chance to win. I think talent-wise, we were pretty close, but TB just matches up really well with us - just one of those teams that takes advantage of our weak spots. But to insist we were still better is a bit foolish...

 

Rankings are silly too. TB clearly was not playing well early in the season and obviously was playing huge at the end of the season. Trends are important too; teams that are hot at the end tend to play well in the playoffs.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I think the point is that "admitting they were better" is just semantics when it's clear the teams were close to even and the game swung on a play or two.

 

The same could not be said for the Packers vs. 49ers last year or the Packers vs. Falcons a few years prior. In both cases it was fairly obvious before the game and crystal clear during it that the Packers were completely outmatched.

 

That was not the case this year. The Packers had a real chance to seal the deal this year. The QB is another year older and the team is almost a sure bet to be worse on paper in September. It makes it much harder to swallow when you really had a shot vs last year's loss, which was very easy to get over (for me).

 

I'll probably never get over this one, just like I'm not over 2014. Oddly, the Super Bowl 32 loss hurt, but not as much as either of these two, because in that one I felt they just lined up and got beat. The 15-1 team going down was pretty meh to me too, because I had my doubts about them going in. This year was just a real gut punch. It just felt like it was gonna happen.

[HiAndTight]

I just don't understand how you can say the Packers are better than the Bucs. they destroyed us the first game and were the better team two weeks ago. They easily have more talent, especially in the front seven and receiver. OL and secondary are the only positions we have a decided advantage.

Speaking only for myself, I don’t at all think Tampa was the better team two weeks ago. Their pass rush played better than our offensive line, and that plus two unforced errors (one strongly aided by referee malpractice) was the difference in the game. But our QB played decisively better, and we won the turnover battle and dominated time of possession. Those are all marks of superior teams. But results did not match process, thanks largely to Mike Pettine’s brain fart. So here we are. But I am not disputing Tampa’s front 7, they’re great. But Green Bay was better and should have won that game, and anyone is going to have a hard time convincing me otherwise.

 

 

It was a strange game and one only the Packers could lose. They went from a likely 1st down at the Tampa ~45 with about a minute left down 14-10 to 24-10 in about 2 minutes of the game.

 

So even ignoring the fact that the best LT in the NFL wasn't playing in that game, the sequence with the no-call on the Murphy Bunting INT(which I didn't have a problem with until that flag game in about 15 seconds late from the ref 20 yards away from the play while the ref about 5 yards away didn't throw a flag) then the Scotty Miller TD and the Aaron Jones fumble. It's a fluke sequence of events.

 

I think the Packers should have won that game.

I think if they had Bahktiari...they probably would have just found another way to lose it.

I don't think Tampa was better.

[HiAndTight]

I’ve never been sure if the 2014 team would have beat the Patriots in the Super Bowl, I think that’s a toss-up. But I will now go to my grave believing beyond a shadow of a doubt that the 2020 Packers win this game against Kansas City. This really was Rodgers’ last best chance.

 

Umm lol no. Green Bay's defense isn't even half as good as Tampa Bay's is. The Packers wouldn't have been able to take away Hill like Tampa has. Tampa has actually taken out all of the Chiefs WR's Green Bay couldn't have done that. Also Tampa's pass rush is far better than Green Bay's.

 

It is a completely different game if it is Packers vs Chiefs.

 

 

Wait...what? How exactly is it that GB wouldn't have been able to take Hill away?

 

I forget, which team had the #1 CB in the NFL and the #2 Safety? And which team gave up 200 yards to him in the 1st quarter of a game?

 

I really don't know how to measure if someone is "half as good" or three times as good as another team, but I do know that going up against KC's backup Tackles like Mike Remmer, our defense would have abused KC's as well.

 

 

It probably isn't that different of a game if it's GB and KC. Playing with Mike Remmers in the Super Bowl as a Starting Tackle is like playing with 10 guys.

[HiAndTight]

I’ve never been sure if the 2014 team would have beat the Patriots in the Super Bowl, I think that’s a toss-up. But I will now go to my grave believing beyond a shadow of a doubt that the 2020 Packers win this game against Kansas City. This really was Rodgers’ last best chance.

 

Umm lol no. Green Bay's defense isn't even half as good as Tampa Bay's is. The Packers wouldn't have been able to take away Hill like Tampa has. Tampa has actually taken out all of the Chiefs WR's Green Bay couldn't have done that. Also Tampa's pass rush is far better than Green Bay's.

 

It is a completely different game if it is Packers vs Chiefs.

 

Tampa is Probably the best NFL defense since the Baltimore squads.

 

 

 

This Tampa defense was pretty good...it wasn't in the same world as those Baltimore squads(or even it's other SB team). I don't think this Tampa D was better than those Seattle Defenses, the Broncos with Ware and Von Miller(who also got to play against Mike Remmers in the SB).

 

KC was playing with two tackles out. The Packers without the best.

 

Tampa has a nice D, but either this post should be in blue, or you're getting a little too caught up in the moment.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Agree. It was probably the best defense going back to the one that Denver won it with. The Packers moved the ball quite well against it. But the 2000 Ravens, or, you know, the other Tampa championship team? Not even close to it.

 

The prowess of Tampa's offense has strangely been a bit underrated probably due to the QB. The skill position group is pretty damn good.

[HiAndTight]

Agree. It was probably the best defense going back to the one that Denver won it with. The Packers moved the ball quite well against it. But the 2000 Ravens, or, you know, the other Tampa championship team? Not even close to it.

 

The prowess of Tampa's offense has strangely been a bit underrated probably due to the QB. The skill position group is pretty damn good.

 

They've literally got 3 #1 WR'ers, 3 really good TE's, Fournette.

 

 

That was the worst part of Brady going to Tampa. You knew how much talent was there and how people would act like he just carried them to the SB.

 

 

By the way, a nod to JPP. Few players have tried as hard as he has to end his career as often as he has and failed.

 

You'd think a guy that blew half his hand off and fractured his neck in a car accident would be slowing down, but he was a beast this year. Though accentuated again by the fact he was playing against our backup and then Mike Remmers.

[SeaBass]

I think Tampa's strength isn't just their defense, it's when the team is able to get out to a lead, not just a one score lead but a 2 score type advantage it enables them to just go off on defense and play attack football. That's what I admire about them. That's coaching and philosophy as much as having the talent.

 

Tampa Bay was better than the Packers on game day both times. I didn't really get the sense they were so much better than the Packers though. I was pretty unimpressed with their offense in the NFCCG. Brady threw several Hail Marys that connected. Then the Packers had that horrible stretch where Rodgers throws an INT with :30 seconds left in the 2nd quarter and TB is able to get the killer TD before the half, then GB gets the ball to start the 3rd and Jones fumbles and TB gets another quick TD. Super Bowl suicide. Choke job extraordinary. Gift wrap that present for a decent team but I won't call them better.

 

All I can do is shake my head over all the credit Tom Brady is getting for Tampa's championship. I didn't watch the game Sunday because I couldn't stomach it, but him getting the SB MVP makes me laugh.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The Super Bowl MVP is basically a lock for the QB if he throws 2 TDs and they win the game. A WR/RB has to get 200 yards or a defensive player has to be an absolute monster to get a vote.

[HiAndTight]

I think Tampa's strength isn't just their defense, it's when the team is able to get out to a lead, not just a one score lead but a 2 score type advantage it enables them to just go off on defense and play attack football. That's what I admire about them. That's coaching and philosophy as much as having the talent.

 

Tampa Bay was better than the Packers on game day both times. I didn't really get the sense they were so much better than the Packers though. I was pretty unimpressed with their offense in the NFCCG. Brady threw several Hail Marys that connected. Then the Packers had that horrible stretch where Rodgers throws an INT with :30 seconds left in the 2nd quarter and TB is able to get the killer TD before the half, then GB gets the ball to start the 3rd and Jones fumbles and TB gets another quick TD. Super Bowl suicide. Choke job extraordinary. Gift wrap that present for a decent team but I won't call them better.

 

All I can do is shake my head over all the credit Tom Brady is getting for Tampa's championship. I didn't watch the game Sunday because I couldn't stomach it, but him getting the SB MVP makes me laugh.

 

 

There were so many just fluke plays in that game. That pass to Goodwin on 3rd and long that set them up for another TD. 3 of the Buccs TD's came on strange of fluky plays.

 

 

Maybe if the Packers are leading, TB comes back. I don't know how the game would have played out. TB was just a really bad match up and it was made worse that Bahk missed the majority of both games.

 

You do have to give Brady credit though. He's smart. He picked a team that was on the cusp going into this year, during his time in New England, he never signed that monster extension, and they just always find ways to win. But it is really sickening to see him win another SB MVP when everyone knows the game was MUCH more about KC's Tackles vs JPP and Shaq Barrett.

[PinaMadness]

The Super Bowl MVP is basically a lock for the QB if he throws 2 TDs and they win the game. A WR/RB has to get 200 yards or a defensive player has to be an absolute monster to get a vote.

The Super Bowl MVP award has basically been rendered meaningless because of this. I bet I could find at least 10 instances where the winning quarterback that won the award didn't deserve to win it if I cared to do the research. Just off the top of my head Peyton didn't deserve his and Eli didn't deserve his first one.

[CheezWizHed]

Basically, if there is no big splashy, game-turning play, (i.e. Howard's punt return TD) nor any dominant performance by one player, the award is going to go to the player with the ball in his hands the most by default (i.e. the QB).

[yourout]

I think Tampa's strength isn't just their defense, it's when the team is able to get out to a lead, not just a one score lead but a 2 score type advantage it enables them to just go off on defense and play attack football. That's what I admire about them. That's coaching and philosophy as much as having the talent.

 

Tampa Bay was better than the Packers on game day both times. I didn't really get the sense they were so much better than the Packers though. I was pretty unimpressed with their offense in the NFCCG. Brady threw several Hail Marys that connected. Then the Packers had that horrible stretch where Rodgers throws an INT with :30 seconds left in the 2nd quarter and TB is able to get the killer TD before the half, then GB gets the ball to start the 3rd and Jones fumbles and TB gets another quick TD. Super Bowl suicide. Choke job extraordinary. Gift wrap that present for a decent team but I won't call them better.

 

All I can do is shake my head over all the credit Tom Brady is getting for Tampa's championship. I didn't watch the game Sunday because I couldn't stomach it, but him getting the SB MVP makes me laugh.

 

 

There were so many just fluke plays in that game. That pass to Goodwin on 3rd and long that set them up for another TD. 3 of the Buccs TD's came on strange of fluky plays.

 

 

Maybe if the Packers are leading, TB comes back. I don't know how the game would have played out. TB was just a really bad match up and it was made worse that Bahk missed the majority of both games.

 

You do have to give Brady credit though. He's smart. He picked a team that was on the cusp going into this year, during his time in New England, he never signed that monster extension, and they just always find ways to win. But it is really sickening to see him win another SB MVP when everyone knows the game was MUCH more about KC's Tackles vs JPP and Shaq Barrett.

 

Quick question for everyone.

If you had to lose would you rather it be losing a lead late or not finishing a comeback? I suspect most of us would rather lose the way they did versus Tampa then the way they did versus Seattle.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The Seattle loss was an inexcusable comedy of events that a 12-year-old playing Madden could have coached them out of. It was so bad that if one of the 7 or 8 things that led to the collapse hadn't happened, they probably still win the game. They probably STILL win the game if just the 2-pt conversion is missed.

 

The Tampa loss was just a bunch of missed opportunities and not executing the way they had most of the year, compounded by a very good defense and missing the best OL in the league. It stung, but nowhere near Seattle game.

[adambr2]

The Seattle NFC Championship is the only time I've ever seen a defender scream at an intercepting player to just fall to the ground with over 5 minutes left in a 9 point game. Bizarre.

[PeaveyFury]

The Seattle NFC Championship is the only time I've ever seen a defender scream at an intercepting player to just fall to the ground with over 5 minutes left in a 9 point game. Bizarre.

 

It was 12 at that point, I believe.

[adambr2]

The Seattle NFC Championship is the only time I've ever seen a defender scream at an intercepting player to just fall to the ground with over 5 minutes left in a 9 point game. Bizarre.

 

It was 12 at that point, I believe.

 

Whoops, you're right. 19-7, not 16. Still, 2 score game.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Seattle's only score to that point was I think a fake punt or FG. Their offense did literally nothing the entire game.

[adambr2]

Seattle's only score to that point was I think a fake punt or FG. Their offense did literally nothing the entire game.

 

That means nothing. Momentum can change on a dime and scores can happen quickly regardless of the pace up until that point. If you're up against a punchless offense I can understand this argument but Seattle always had the capability of turning it around. Once they got the ball in OT I knew there was no way we were keeping them out of the endzone despite how the first 55 minutes of the game went.

 

There was zero reason to go down on that play in that situation. Burnett had a pretty decent chance to score but at the very least he would have gotten in FG range.

[AKCheesehead]

A few years back, I was in a one on one meeting with my new boss on a Friday afternoon. At the end we were casually discussing weekend plans and I said I planned on relaxing and watching football. She then began regaling me with her tale of her favorite football watching experience, how the 'hawks were behind and rallied and got the onside kick, etc etc. By the time she was done I looked down and realized I had ahold of the front of her desk in both hands in almost a death grip. I said as pleasantly as I could, with clenched teeth, "Yeah I remember that game."

 

I really hated the loss to Tampa, but the Seattle and Philly ones were the worst ones for me personally.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Seattle's only score to that point was I think a fake punt or FG. Their offense did literally nothing the entire game.

 

That means nothing. Momentum can change on a dime and scores can happen quickly regardless of the pace up until that point. If you're up against a punchless offense I can understand this argument but Seattle always had the capability of turning it around. Once they got the ball in OT I knew there was no way we were keeping them out of the endzone despite how the first 55 minutes of the game went.

 

There was zero reason to go down on that play in that situation. Burnett had a pretty decent chance to score but at the very least he would have gotten in FG range.

 

What argument? I wasn't saying anything about the slide. I didn't even quote you. I was just pointing out they'd been hapless and it was ridiculous the Packers lost that game.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

A few years back, I was in a one on one meeting with my new boss on a Friday afternoon. At the end we were casually discussing weekend plans and I said I planned on relaxing and watching football. She then began regaling me with her tale of her favorite football watching experience, how the 'hawks were behind and rallied and got the onside kick, etc etc. By the time she was done I looked down and realized I had ahold of the front of her desk in both hands in almost a death grip. I said as pleasantly as I could, with clenched teeth, "Yeah I remember that game."

 

I really hated the loss to Tampa, but the Seattle and Philly ones were the worst ones for me personally.

 

Seattle will never be surpassed. It was the worst game, but also the best Packers team that went down. 4th and 26 was bad, but the Packers are still a long shot even if they win. The game a few weeks ago is just another blah loss, but not even on the level of the Seattle game.

 

The Super Bowl loss hurt, but they just got beat. Another one that was rough for me was the 98 Wild Card in SF because it was such a blatantly missed call that cost the game. The list of these is really quite depressing. Rodgers kicking the ball into a DL's hands in '09 was awful too. He had played such a great game.