NFC Championship: Buccaneers @ Packers - Sunday, Jan 24th, 2:05 PM

[PeaveyFury]

That’s all that is similar, the rest of the details are vastly different.

 

Please feel free to elaborate on the differences, possibly without insults like "lazy" and "crazy" this time?

[OldSchoolSnapper]

 

Maybe cuz that caller was you?

 

What??

 

I dont understand how he rates the worst LB

 

Sorry, SECOND worst. He must have had a decent game in week 17, and my apologies to Elandon Roberts of the Dolphins for not giving him the honor of calling him the worst. His pass rush rating was slightly above average. Run defense and pass coverage were horrid. Really, really bad.

 

I don't know anything about this guy, but I don't feel like any of this automatically makes him a worse pick than Jordan Love. I also doubt you'd be as critical had the Packers taken him and would instead be urging patience as he develops. A quick Googling shows that he really wasn't all that bad, just wildly inconsistent and there are a number of folks that think there's something there. But really, none of this had anything to do with the central thesis, which is that basically any pick other than QB, K and P would have told Rodgers we were trying to acquire an immediate impact player, and that drafting Rodgers during Favre's career isn't a parallel for several reasons I already stated.

[adambr2]

Saying that 1 bad call in the 1st half cost GBP the game is like Browns fans screaming about the helmet to helmet hit (& non-call) at the goal line near the end of the 1st half last week vs the Chiefs.

 

Both items hurt but the GBP (& the Browns last week) had chances to comeback & tie/ take the lead in the 2nd half of the game. Both teams did not execute & now both teams are at home watching the round of the playoffs in 2 weeks.

 

Are there other plays that still could have gone their way to still pull the game out? Uh yeah, I never said otherwise. But it was absolutely an enormous play that really opened up the game for Tampa at the time and put us in a hole we never got out of.

 

Tony Dungy called it the worst defensive playcall he's ever seen. Ed Reed was flabbergasted. Our own HC was blunt in his assessment of the call. I cannot believe anyone is downplaying that call.

[PeaveyFury]

I don't feel like any of this automatically makes him a worse pick than Jordan Love.

 

Simply stating facts. In 2020, the Packers would have been a worse team if Queen was their MLB. That's undeniably true based on the play on the field. Jordon Love did not help the team, but he also didn't hurt it with poor play on the field.

 

 

I don't know anything about this guy

 

Then why comment regarding his play or value as a player?

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Then why comment regarding his play or value as a player?

 

Because for the 15th time, it has nothing to do with the assessment of Love being a stupid selection.

 

Had they taken a WR, the odds of that player making a big difference this season are slim. As I already said, most 1st round picks don't move the needle in Year 1. They could possibly already have their slot WR, a 1st round talent with a year in their system going into 2021. Instead they are right where they were, I guess hoping MVS learns to catch this offseason and that one of their middling scrubs emerges as a viable option.

 

Or a linebacker. Or someone who could have pushed King out of the starting lineup. Or any guy that absolutely sucked. Who knows. Point is that any of them presented a chance to improve the team for Rodgers and Jordan Love does not. Nothing says "We're knocking on the door, now let's beat it down," quite like drafting a backup for the MVP of the league who won't take a snap for 3 years if at all.

 

And now I'll vent: I hope Rodgers does leave and win somewhere else, I really do. Gute can have fun with Jordan Love and show the world what a genius he is.

[PeaveyFury]

Then why comment regarding his play or value as a player?

 

Because for the 15th time, it has nothing to do with the assessment of Love being a stupid selection.

 

Why do you assume that my response to a completely different poster who specifically questioned the evaluation of Queen as a player has anything to do with your argument? My post said absolutely nothing about Love, or even Queen relative to love.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I hope Rodgers does leave and win somewhere else, I really do. Gute can have fun with Jordan Love and show the world what a genius he is.

 

I don't want Rodgers to leave. He's playing at a better clip now than he has his entire career, which is saying something.

 

But if it happens, I agree that I'd like to see him go somewhere else and shine, because I really like the guy. I also want Jordan Love to succeed because it would be good for the team, and I'm a Packer fan first and foremost. I'm not going to get any sort of fulfillment out an "I told ya so" moment if Love isn't good. I would imagine most true Packer fans would agree.

[PeaveyFury]

I hope Rodgers does leave and win somewhere else, I really do. Gute can have fun with Jordan Love and show the world what a genius he is.

 

I don't want Rodgers to leave. He's playing at a better clip now than he has his entire career, which is saying something.

 

I think the reassuring thing is that he's simply not going anywhere this year unless he retires. The Packers gain virtually nothing if he goes this year. He's a Packer for at least one more season, possibly two more.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Saying that 1 bad call in the 1st half cost GBP the game is like Browns fans screaming about the helmet to helmet hit (& non-call) at the goal line near the end of the 1st half last week vs the Chiefs.

 

Both items hurt but the GBP (& the Browns last week) had chances to comeback & tie/ take the lead in the 2nd half of the game. Both teams did not execute & now both teams are at home watching the round of the playoffs in 2 weeks.

 

Are there other plays that still could have gone their way to still pull the game out? Uh yeah, I never said otherwise. But it was absolutely an enormous play that really opened up the game for Tampa at the time and put us in a hole we never got out of.

 

Tony Dungy called it the worst defensive playcall he's ever seen. Ed Reed was flabbergasted. Our own HC was blunt in his assessment of the call. I cannot believe anyone is downplaying that call.

 

For me it's combination of the last 5 minutes of half #1 and the first drive of half #2 that turned a very winnable game into a desperation attempt to win. That's even with factoring in TB's quick start. For most of the 2nd half, Tampa was playing without their top 2 safeties - and their defense was on the field the whole damn game...hurts seeing those 2 empty possessions in the 4th quarter where a TD or even FG probably wins them the ballgame.

 

That sequence went:

 

Adams drops that 1st and goal pass that would have tied the game up at 14, instead they settle for a FG on a 15 play drive that takes up half the quarter.

 

Driving under 2 minutes for a FG chance or potentially a TD, Rodgers throws a pick - not a bad throw, but the Bucs DB basically rode Lazard with a hand on his jersey enough to pull himself into position to make that play. Apparently the back judge 30 yards downfield must not have had as good a look on that play as he did on King's PI at the end of the game on a throw from Brady that I still contend wasn't catchable.

 

On 3rd down from outside FG range, Brady throws a wounded quail down the sideline that should have been picked, but it got alligator armed. After TWO timeouts (1TB, 1 GB), Packers decide to play coverage with only 1 safety back on a play that either has to wind up in the end zone or 6 yards out of bounds - TB has multiple receivers streaking to the endzone to force the safety to make a decision and Arians/Brady picks their patsy(King) to have their speediest receiver run by for a TD.

 

End of half #1 - what could have easily been a 21-14 GB lead with them getting the 2nd half kick turns into a 21-10 TB lead.

 

Then 3 plays to Jones to open the 2nd half that result in a fumble and return inside the 10....1 play later another TB TD and it's 28-10.

 

There were many other individual plays that GB didn't make through the course of the game that could have swung the balance or helped their cause - but this sequence is essentially a 25-point swing in the game with Tampa Bay basically having that 1 possession at the end of the 1st half.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I hope Rodgers does leave and win somewhere else, I really do. Gute can have fun with Jordan Love and show the world what a genius he is.

 

I don't want Rodgers to leave. He's playing at a better clip now than he has his entire career, which is saying something.

 

But if it happens, I agree that I'd like to see him go somewhere else and shine, because I really like the guy. I also want Jordan Love to succeed because it would be good for the team, and I'm a Packer fan first and foremost. I'm not going to get any sort of fulfillment out an "I told ya so" moment if Love isn't good. I would imagine most true Packer fans would agree.

 

I'd want him to stay if I had one shred of faith in this team not tripping over itself in January but this is what we are. I think he's all but gone after 2021. I just get the sense through his cryptic words that he wants to complement a team with lots of pieces in place, like twilight Manning or Brady. I think he knows inside being Atlas for the practice squad heroes and the 17th ranked defense is never going to do it. Maybe they can deal for some first round picks and snag Love's backup 15 years early.

[MrTPlush]

That’s all that is similar, the rest of the details are vastly different.

 

Please feel free to elaborate on the differences, possibly without insults like "lazy" and "crazy" this time?

 

For reasons already mentioned by other posters, I don’t think I need to regurgitate things you’ve already been told.

 

The direction of the team wasn’t the same, Farve’s decline was a bit more obvious and Rodgers hasn’t been threatening to retire constantly. Of course Rodgers was also a much more touted prospect versus Love who I don’t think was even a projected 1st round pick (could be wrong on that).

 

I really don’t buy the concern with Rodgers declining either. It was one year where is was really good instead of great, in a new system to boot. His stats were still really good. Favre on the other hand really hadn’t been all that great for years. Heck, you could go back to 1998 and see where Favre was starting to not be that special of a player anymore.

 

There are arguments for taking a QB, but I just don’t like the Favre situation as a comparison. That was much more obvious.

[homer]

I haven't looked up exactly where GB got the ball, but Brady's TO's ended up giving GB not great field position. Two of them were on 3rd down so they were kind of like punts. GBs two turnovers gave TB incredible field position one time and great field position another time.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Yeah. Brady's last int was more of a heads up play on his part. That either ends the game right there or serves as a punt.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I haven't looked up exactly where GB got the ball, but Brady's TO's ended up giving GB not great field position. Two of them were on 3rd down so they were kind of like punts. GBs two turnovers gave TB incredible field position one time and great field position another time.

 

Yeah Brady's picks were all on the edge of the red zone to inside the 10 - Rodgers' pick set them up at midfield, and Jones' fumble with the return set them up at 1st and goal. GB still had to go 80+ yards on those 4th quarter drives if they wanted another TD after those turnovers, but instead they were 3 and out.

 

I guess if they wanted better field position on those TOs, their offense and special teams could have done a better job of flipping the field a time or two...then again Brady probably doesn't make those same throws from his own 25 yard line, too. Even on kickoffs after GB scored, their special teams consistently had Tampa Bay starting drives from their 35 or better because of poor coverage.

[homer]

I feel bad for Rodgers. It must be heart-wrenching to see a very winnable game (Brady played like absolute junk in the 2nd half) end up as an L. I think he knows that even if he stays with GB that they won't have the same team next year.

 

Since we're talking draft, this is why I hate trading up late in the 1st round. You need all those 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round picks to fill in the gaps when guys are cut loose. If they had stood pat and taken Love at #30 I'd have had no problem with it. But there were 3 corners taken right after pick 136 all of whom could have been potential replacements for King.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

When the Packers got the ball at 14-10, I made a post here that Rodgers had to be really careful and that 14-10 at half was fine. Boy did that go awry. I know there was a hold on that throw, but you can't start squeezing rocket balls in because you think there might be a flag, which I've seen people comment. They just could not turn the ball over there.

 

Brady is just such an aware player. Even his picks weren't very consequential, and the play where he saw within half a second there was nothing there and chucked the ball at the ground to preserve a FG. Those kinds of meh decisions can make a huge difference.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I feel bad for Rodgers.

 

Same. Apparently he's now "lost the most championship games." I had these kinds of gymnastics stats that do nothing but cut a guy down. How many did Favre lose with the Packers? Two, because from 1998-2006 he couldn't get there, more than once directly because of his play.

 

These legacy arguments place more success on guys that win two Super Bowls but go 6-10 seven times, as opposed to Rodgers who is literally always right there, but just cannot seem to get a break in the clinching game. Your "playoff record" essentially benefits from not making the playoffs at all. If you win two titles and end your postseason career something like 8-2, that's "better" than Rodgers going 11-9. It's dumb.

[MrTPlush]

Unfortunately none of the turnovers ended up in decent spots. A bit of bad luck there as they weren’t entirely “well either I make this crazy completion or it works as a punt”. The closest one to that was actually the dropped one before the half...of course we all know how that worked out on 4th down. The defense really wasn’t doing Rodgers and the offense any favors with them, more so just saving their own butts.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I know there was a hold on that throw, but you can't start squeezing rocket balls in because you think there might be a flag, which I've seen people comment.

 

The timing of that route is such that Rodgers makes the read and throw right as the hold is occurring - There's not time for Rodgers to see the penalty and then make the throw. If there's no hold (which was sustained) Lazard has separation from the DB and an accurate pass (which it was) gives him a chance to split safety help and take it to the house or at minimum set them up on the edge of FG range with plenty of time and timeouts to score a TD.

 

Rodgers got after the officials after that play because he knew the only way that's a pick is if there's a blatant penalty that didn't get called. And even with the hold, the DB had to make an incredible play on the ball to make that pick.

[homer]

When the Packers got the ball at 14-10, I made a post here that Rodgers had to be really careful and that 14-10 at half was fine. Boy did that go awry. I know there was a hold on that throw, but you can't start squeezing rocket balls in because you think there might be a flag, which I've seen people comment. They just could not turn the ball over there.

 

Brady is just such an aware player. Even his picks weren't very consequential, and the play where he saw within half a second there was nothing there and chucked the ball at the ground to preserve a FG. Those kinds of meh decisions can make a huge difference.

 

You can't play scared. That D-back made a really nice play on the ball.

[homer]

I was glad they let more contact go between receivers and defensive backs. It just would have been nice had they done it for all 60 minutes.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

That and the speed of the one they decided to call was absurd. It's a flag or it isn't. Don't look at Brady's facial expression and then decide throw it. That was a joke.

[Fear The Chorizo]

That and the speed of the one they decided to call was absurd. It's a flag or it isn't. Don't look at Brady's facial expression and then decide throw it. That was a joke.

 

That throw was very, very high too....even if King didn't touch Johnson and he's running wide open I don't think he catches that ball.

[adambr2]

I think what's nice is that we're entering the off-season with a lot of progress being made:

-TE-- seems solid with Tonyan's breakout year, Deguara, Dafney, Sternberger, etc.

-WR-- was what we were hoping we'd see with ESB and MVS making huge jumps in year 3, just like Adams did. Lazard is solid again. Would be nice to get another piece in the draft. We always seem to draft a receiver. But we also can't count on them making much of a contribution next year. I'd love a fast depth-piece WR that has vision for returns

-OL--always need more depth.

-RB---depends on Jones and Williams, if either or both return

-DL--need more depth

-LB--would be nice to continue to add more depth, especially speed that can cover and not need to come off when in Nickel

-DB--definitely need more depth. Not sure how the Packers can feel good about King after he was responsible for so much that went wrong in this game.

 

We're going to be down one of the best Centers and one of the best Running Backs in football just to get under the cap next year. We'll be down Preston Smith, too. Remember, this is just to get under the cap so forget about being active in free agency. It's tough to squint hard enough to see how we are going to have a better roster next year.

 

The NFC will likely be a tougher conference. It was a big down year for the NFC. I expect the 49ers to be relevant again recovering from some big injuries. We had the conference championship at home. We had all the stars align perfectly to win a championship this year and couldn't get it done. We won't have an easy road to get back.

[MrTPlush]

I appreciate letting players...play. However, not when it turns into street ball. Which favored the Bucs because they were actually close to our receivers versus our DBs always 5 yards behind them. The way that game was getting called Pettine should have just gotten into their faces until the flags started flying. If they didn’t, good for us.