NFC Championship: Buccaneers @ Packers - Sunday, Jan 24th, 2:05 PM

[yourout]

If you could roll back the clock right knowing exactly how the first rounders

Would perform who could they have picked that would have won today's game?

[PeaveyFury]

They took a player who they do not currently even trust enough to play in a game over Tim Boyle, and they gave up both a 1st and 3rd round pick to do so. I'm not sure that was the right player either.

 

Did Tim Boyle play any meaningful snaps this year?

 

I sure am sure that the 2020 draft haters finally got the loss they were waiting for to dissect that over and over for the next few months, but that stuff was MIGHTY quiet over the past several weeks.

 

I'll simply reiterate my point from earlier- sometimes, front offices are better at their jobs than fans are. This isn't an unqualified Mike Sherman running the whole organization. This FO has done nothing but show that they know what they're doing, in both the draft and everything else, basically.

[PeaveyFury]

I have no problem with drafting Love while Rodgers is on the team. Just do it in 2022.

 

Love wouldn't have been available in 2022. They clearly like Love and 2-3 year of development more than a QB they'd draft and need to start immediately.

 

Lol, gee, thanks, I wasn't aware. Are there no QBs in the other drafts?

 

Did you actually read beyond my first sentence? We have zero idea what the lifespan of Rodgers' career is. It looked much shorter after 2019 than it does after 2020. A QB with 2 years of development time makes a lot more sense than a QB with 1 year or less. Or, at least it offers a higher chance of setting the QB up for success.

[Eye Black]

I’ll just say if I was an NFL GM I would draft a quarterback every single year. Not necessarily in the first round, but definitely every year.

 

From 1992-99 the Packers drafted 7 quarterbacks. Among the “hits” during that stretch were Mark Brunell, Matt Hasselbeck, and to a lesser extent Aaron Brooks.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Love's had no preseason at all and a weird camp, so I think any evaluation of him right now is pretty useless. But asking me who I would have picked instead is also pretty useless. I could go look at the first round and pick basically any player that was a positive contributor and just say "yeah, take him instead!"

 

The point I was making was never who else they should have picked. It was the message it sent to Rodgers, one he verbalized, and just more evidence that I don't think he feels the Packers have done all they can do to help him win championships.

 

Whether that's true or not is a different subject than how he FEELS about it. Which I think at this point is pretty difficult to argue.

[HarveysWBs]

If you could roll back the clock right knowing exactly how the first rounders

Would perform who could they have picked that would have won today's game?

I think that’s a different question than the one currently being discussed (as Snapper indicated above), but I like the thought experiment and I’ll bite.

 

I admit I was wrong about how much Lazard and MVS would grow this year, but I still think a Tee Higgins makes a couple more plays in this game when it matters. For instance, if you imagine him taking the place of EQ this year, I can imagine him catching that 2 pt conversion, to name one play.

[adambr2]

Did Tim Boyle play any meaningful snaps this year?

 

My point was that Boyle is the backup QB of this team while Love is a healthy scratch, but I'm sure you know that's what I was saying.

I'll simply reiterate my point from earlier- sometimes, front offices are better at their jobs than fans are. This isn't an unqualified Mike Sherman running the whole organization. This FO has done nothing but show that they know what they're doing, in both the draft and everything else, basically.

 

And yet this FO will watch their frustrated first ballot HOF quarterback not play in the Super Bowl for the 10th consecutive time while the FO that did everything in their power to surround their first ballot HOF quarterback with the best possible players and coaches will be playing for a Lombardi in 2 weeks in their first season with him.

[pacopete4]

I learned my lesson throwing a hissy fit over drafting Rodgers when I thought the world of Favre. I like the fact that they are thinking future. I hope Love can keep us competing for championships like both Favre and Rodgers have. Even with the loss today (it does stinks), the last 25-30 years has just been too much fun.

[PeaveyFury]

Did Tim Boyle play any meaningful snaps this year?

 

My point was that Boyle is the backup QB of this team while Love is a healthy scratch, but I'm sure you know that's what I was saying.

 

And I think you know that what I was saying is that it literally means nothing. Which I also think you know.

[yourout]

If you could roll back the clock right knowing exactly how the first rounders

Would perform who could they have picked that would have won today's game?

I think that’s a different question than the one currently being discussed (as Snapper indicated above), but I like the thought experiment and I’ll bite.

 

I admit I was wrong about how much Lazard and MVS would grow this year, but I still think a Tee Higgins makes a couple more plays in this game when it matters. For instance, if you imagine him taking the place of EQ this year, I can imagine him catching that 2 pt conversion, for instance.

 

That's fair. Any other rookies that had big years?

Any corners that had big years?

Would Chase young have made a difference?

[RollieTime]

I mentioned in a pre draft thread to trade up and take Justin Jefferson. That certainly would have been a huge addition to the offense. Pair him with Adams, Jones, and Tonyan and we would be looking at an even more elite offense. I still wish they would have taken a different wide receiver most notably Higgins (at the time), but Pittman or Claypool would have been nice too.

[PeaveyFury]

I learned my lesson throwing a hissy fit over drafting Rodgers when I thought the world of Favre.

 

Yep. It was literally the same argument 16 years ago about not giving Favre enough weapons and wasting a pick on a first round QB. Literally the same stuff.

 

Those same people are likely now also some of the ones lamenting this stuff with Rodgers, while completely forgetting the move that got the Packers this extended run of success with another HOF QB. It's surreal, in a way.

[PeaveyFury]

I mentioned in a pre draft thread to trade up and take Justin Jefferson.

 

It's hard to do hypothetical trades up like that, though. There wasn't any movement in the draft after the mid-first round through Jefferson's pick, so who knows who would have actually been willing to trade down, or what you'd have had to give up to do it.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I learned my lesson throwing a hissy fit over drafting Rodgers when I thought the world of Favre. I like the fact that they are thinking future. I hope Love can keep us competing for championships like both Favre and Rodgers have. Even with the loss today (it does stinks), the last 30 25-30 years has just been too much fun.

 

Favre was waffling over retirement every offseason and the team was in decline, he was turning the ball over a ton. It wasn't an ascending one with a young core. I was a big fan of the Rodgers pick, but mostly because I really didn't like the player Favre had become.

 

As I said earlier in this thread, Brady's contracts have made it easy for his teams "to do what it takes." Rodgers was already rumored to be frustrated with the team's stubbornness. He's not the boss and I respect Gute's cajones, but if you can't make splash moves in FA, I can see how he'd be peeved with a 1st round QB.

[pacopete4]

I learned my lesson throwing a hissy fit over drafting Rodgers when I thought the world of Favre. I like the fact that they are thinking future. I hope Love can keep us competing for championships like both Favre and Rodgers have. Even with the loss today (it does stinks), the last 30 25-30 years has just been too much fun.

 

Favre was waffling over retirement every offseason and the team was in decline, he was turning the ball over a ton. It wasn't an ascending one with a young core. I was a big fan of the Rodgers pick, but mostly because I really didn't like the player Favre had become.

 

As I said earlier in this thread, Brady's contracts have made it easy for his teams "to do what it takes." Rodgers was already rumored to be frustrated with the team's stubbornness. He's not the boss and I respect Gute's cajones, but if you can't make splash moves in FA, I can see how he'd be peeved with a 1st round QB.

 

Is that where Rodgers says he will restructure to fit in “player X” if they promise to sign someone he wants?

[HarveysWBs]

If you could roll back the clock right knowing exactly how the first rounders

Would perform who could they have picked that would have won today's game?

I think that’s a different question than the one currently being discussed (as Snapper indicated above), but I like the thought experiment and I’ll bite.

 

I admit I was wrong about how much Lazard and MVS would grow this year, but I still think a Tee Higgins makes a couple more plays in this game when it matters. For instance, if you imagine him taking the place of EQ this year, I can imagine him catching that 2 pt conversion, for instance.

 

That's fair. Any other rookies that had big years?

Any corners that had big years?

Would Chase young have made a difference?

Certainly, but to clarify, I limited my choice to players who would have been available to GB at the 26th spot. I guess it’s possible they could have moved up higher, but the price would have been really steep, obviously, and I wouldn’t have put together a package for a top-3 pick for fear of the entire draft class hinging on hitting on that one guy.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I learned my lesson throwing a hissy fit over drafting Rodgers when I thought the world of Favre.

 

Yep. It was literally the same argument 16 years ago about not giving Favre enough weapons and wasting a pick on a first round QB. Literally the same stuff.

 

Those same people are likely now also some of the ones lamenting this stuff with Rodgers, while completely forgetting the move that got the Packers this extended run of success with another HOF QB. It's surreal, in a way.

 

Again, this is a false equivalency. And it's not the same people, because I wasn't against picking Rodgers at all. Before Favre's geezer resurgence, his level of play had decreased substantially. He threw 38 interceptions in 2003 and 2004 while Ahman Green's legs kept the Packers in the playoffs. He threw 29 in Rodgers's rookie season.

 

I know that those arguments exist, but I've never made the argument that Favre wasn't helped enough. After Holmgren left the Packers, I really soured on Brett Favre and thought he was too sloppy with the ball. I was happy to move on from him.

 

I think Rodgers is an another strata than Favre personally. I think he is a much better player, even though statistics between their eras are skewed. I DO believe the Packers failed Rodgers in the back 9, but not Favre.

[PeaveyFury]

 

Again, this is a false equivalency. And it's not the same people, because I wasn't against picking Rodgers at all. Before Favre's geezer resurgence, his level of play had decreased substantially.

 

Rodgers slipped substantially in 2019 as well, and he looked to be on the downward trajectory that you see from most aging QBs. Stating otherwise is revisionist. His 2020 completely changes the conversation, obviously.

 

It was very logical for the team to draft a QB to replace a HOF QB who appeared to be on the decline. Very logical.

 

And, as I noted in my post, it's "some of the same people". Perhaps not you for the reasons you indicated. But a lot of the fan base. A lot.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Rodgers slipped substantially in 2019 as well, and he looked to be on the downward trajectory that you see from most aging QBs.

 

Rodgers's decline was a 26-4 td/int ratio in Year 1 of a new scheme and losing the NFCCG because a nobody ran for 400 yards on his defense. Favre was turning the ball over between 25-35 times a year.

 

It was very logical for the team to draft a QB to replace a HOF QB who appeared to be on the decline. Very logical.

 

If they hadn't signed the HOF QB through 2023 the year before, then sure. But at this point it's clear that you are OK with the pick, and I think it ticked Rodgers off and didn't help him succeed in GB in any way, shape or form. I will leave it there.

[yourout]

What happens with the cap if ARod retirees?

[PeaveyFury]

Rodgers slipped substantially in 2019 as well, and he looked to be on the downward trajectory that you see from most aging QBs.

 

Rodgers's decline was a 26-4 td/int ratio in Year 1 of a new scheme and losing the NFCCG because a nobody ran for 400 yards on his defense. Favre was turning the ball over between 25-35 times a year.

 

One of his lowest seasons in avg yards per game, continued decline in passer rating, lowest completion percentage ever, etc etc. Yes, he still didn't turn the ball over.

 

I think it ticked Rodgers off and didn't help him succeed in GB in any way, shape or form. I will leave it there.

 

I think the fact that it ticked Rodgers off resulted in a renewed focus and higher performance on the field. I directly think that it lit a fire under him that was a contributor to his/the teams success. So, in many ways we disagree.

[adambr2]

Even Ted Thompson wasn't willing to trade up to get Rodgers. He fell into his lap. I don't think he went into 2005 targeting Rodgers.

 

Sorry, but Rodgers was in the conversation for the first overall pick. He took an unprecedented fall and the value was just too much to pass up. Comparing it trading up 4 spots to #26 to get a guy who was widely seen as a late 1st or 2nd round project is just not even close to being the same thing.

 

The equivalency would have been Justin Herbert falling all the way to us at #30 and taking him there. I think that would have been a lot different conversation.

 

Rodgers also hasn't been threatening to retire every offseason like Favre did. Favre's future was a lot more uncertain. All indications from Rodgers have been that he'd be happy to play to 43 if we were actually competing in Super Bowls.

[PeaveyFury]

What happens with the cap if ARod retirees?

 

In his case, basically the same thing if they would cut or trade him. Full acceleration of his signing bonus, no roster or base paid, and a cap savings of ~$5.5 mil.

[adambr2]

LaFleur confirmed that Pettine called man coverage on the touchdown at the end of the first half that pushed the Buccaneers’ lead to 21-10. The 39-yard score from Tom Brady to Scott Miller beat Kevin King up the left sideline, and the Packers were in a single-high safety look with man coverage underneath. LaFleur was extremely unhappy about the call, saying “Yeah, that was man coverage; definitely not the right call for the situation. You can’t do stuff like that against a good football team like that and expect to win.”

 

I have to say it again for emphasis -- Mike Pettine had a timeout to figure out what playcall to go with and with only needing to cover the sidelines and endzone he called this albatross of a play.

[PeaveyFury]

Rodgers also hasn't been threatening to retire every offseason like Favre did. Favre's future was a lot more uncertain. All indications from Rodgers have been that he'd be happy to play to 43 if we were actually competing in Super Bowls.

 

Wanting to play and being able to are two different things. The way things looked after 2019 suggested that the latter may be an issue.

 

Regardless, if the point is that they 'should have used their first to get Aaron more help to win while he's still here', it was literally the same thing Packer fans were saying in 2005 and for the next several seasons. I literally remember someone calling into a radio show after the SUPER BOWL WIN, refusing to give Thompson credit for the XLV win and Rodgers pick, because 'if they had drafted more help for Favre we would have won 2-3 more super bowls with him....'

 

They went and got the guy they wanted to transition to from Rodgers. Fans can (and clearly, some of you do) hate that, but we won't know if it was the right move for 5 years or so. Just please don't be that guy calling into the show after the Super Bowl LX win claiming that if they had drafted a WR in 2020, we'd have won 3 more titles with Rodgers....