NFC Championship: Buccaneers @ Packers - Sunday, Jan 24th, 2:05 PM

[OldSchoolSnapper]

We can't know what's in Rodgers' head one way or another good or bad. And we certainly can't base anything based on what he's said in front of a camera--he's smart enough and has been around long enough to know what he's supposed to say in public.

 

So Rodgers is 1-4 in NFC CGs. Would he be 4-1 if not for coaching/coordinators? SF was clearly the better team last year, though Seattle I blame MM for more than Bostic.

 

His worst performance was arguably the game he won, too. QB rating in the 50s.

 

Atlanta game was whatever. They were totally overmatched. Last year too. You throw 350 yards and 3 TDs like he did today, against a very good defense, it's hard to ask much more.

 

I dunno what to tell someone though if they don't find it all suspicious that Rodgers called his future a "beautiful mystery" BEFORE this game and then tossed himself in the ring as having an uncertain future in the post game presser when he could have easily not done that. Rodgers may have loved his teammates this year. But he does not strike me as a guy too pleased with his club doing enough to win.

 

Personally I'm on his side of this. They didn't need Jordan Love, and you don't draft a QB in round one if you are in "win now" mode. The guy's been completely wasted by this franchise, and I'm amazed he managed to bite his tongue over the years to the level he has.

 

To be blunt, that 1-4 mark is more indicative of Rodgers taking several teams to that game that had little business being there outside of his skills. The nature of the playoffs is obviously that you get a loss on your record if you don't win it all. It's biased against very good players on pretty decent, but not great teams.

[PeaveyFury]

They are currently $28 million over the cap. They used any wiggle room they had to sign a soon-to-be 30-year old tackle with a torn ACL. The term ‘hell’ may be a bit of hyperbole, but this won’t be a walk in the park.

 

 

Dude....I JUST went over this.

 

A-They're not "over" any cap because they don't have a cap yet. All they have is a floor. The absolutely LOWEST the cap could possibly be.

 

It's a little unfair to say 'we don't know what the cap is, it's just speculation' regarding the 2021 cap while then stating 'the cap is going to go up a bunch in 2022 so there's nothing to worry about.' If the 2021 cap number is speculation at this point, then the 2022 number is as well, with the disadvantage of one additional year of time to pass before it's set.

[DHonks]

Some thoughts:

-King was brutal. Nearly every big play was his fault and guys were catching it as he fell down.

-We had no balance in the red zone. Nearly every play was an attempt into the end zone. Why not a screen, dump off, slant, or any other play for a few yards and then let the skill player try to get in?

-Great run defense. I think they had 1 run longer than 5 yards--the TD. And we even had that bottled up for no gain if someone had held containment.

-Our DB's need to work on catching. Redmond likely saw Amos coming and expected to get hit, but needs to catch that. King has averaged about 6-7 gimme INT's dropped each season.

-Watching Brees and Brady toss touch throws is a thing of beauty. Yes, Lazard needs to catch that 2-pointer, and yes it was tipped at the line...but it he fires that 90 mph instead of 101, that's a catch.

-MVS with a huge game. Yet on that 2nd down towards the end of the game, if Rodgers puts any air under it, MVS goes all the way for a TD. Instead it was incomplete.

-Packers receivers looked for DPI at least 7 times in the game.

-Jones' 1st fumble should have been a personal foul for leading with the helmet and h2h contact.

 

We're really blaming Rodgers for that 2? It was St. Brown, not Lazard, and it could not have hit him in a better spot. It was a tight window and if it's 90 instead of 101 as you describe it he never has a chance because it gets tipped more flush and never gets to him.

 

 

ESB needs to catch that.

 

Never did I blame Rodgers. It's a critique of Rodgers that I get every time I watch Brees and Brady play...they often manage to put the perfect air underneath the ball...sometimes rifled, sometimes lofted. Rodgers is one of the greatest of all time, but it's one area where I rate others better than him. I was stating that it should have been caught

[yourout]

We can't know what's in Rodgers' head one way or another good or bad. And we certainly can't base anything based on what he's said in front of a camera--he's smart enough and has been around long enough to know what he's supposed to say in public.

 

So Rodgers is 1-4 in NFC CGs. Would he be 4-1 if not for coaching/coordinators? SF was clearly the better team last year, though Seattle I blame MM for more than Bostic.

 

His worst performance was arguably the game he won, too. QB rating in the 50s.

 

Atlanta game was whatever. They were totally overmatched. Last year too. You throw 350 yards and 3 TDs like he did today, against a very good defense, it's hard to ask much more.

 

I dunno what to tell someone though if they don't find it all suspicious that Rodgers called his future a "beautiful mystery" BEFORE this game and then tossed himself in the ring as having an uncertain future in the post game presser when he could have easily not done that. Rodgers may have loved his teammates this year. But he does not strike me as a guy too pleased with his club doing enough to win.

 

Personally I'm on his side of this. They didn't need Jordan Love, and you don't draft a QB in round one if you are in "win now" mode. The guy's been completely wasted by this franchise, and I'm amazed he managed to bite his tongue over the years to the level he has.

 

So if your the saints what would you offer for ARod? What would it take for the Packers to do the deal?

[PeaveyFury]

They didn't need Jordan Love

 

Who did they need?

[adambr2]

Some thoughts:

-King was brutal. Nearly every big play was his fault and guys were catching it as he fell down.

-We had no balance in the red zone. Nearly every play was an attempt into the end zone. Why not a screen, dump off, slant, or any other play for a few yards and then let the skill player try to get in?

-Great run defense. I think they had 1 run longer than 5 yards--the TD. And we even had that bottled up for no gain if someone had held containment.

-Our DB's need to work on catching. Redmond likely saw Amos coming and expected to get hit, but needs to catch that. King has averaged about 6-7 gimme INT's dropped each season.

-Watching Brees and Brady toss touch throws is a thing of beauty. Yes, Lazard needs to catch that 2-pointer, and yes it was tipped at the line...but it he fires that 90 mph instead of 101, that's a catch.

-MVS with a huge game. Yet on that 2nd down towards the end of the game, if Rodgers puts any air under it, MVS goes all the way for a TD. Instead it was incomplete.

-Packers receivers looked for DPI at least 7 times in the game.

-Jones' 1st fumble should have been a personal foul for leading with the helmet and h2h contact.

 

We're really blaming Rodgers for that 2? It was St. Brown, not Lazard, and it could not have hit him in a better spot. It was a tight window and if it's 90 instead of 101 as you describe it he never has a chance because it gets tipped more flush and never gets to him.

 

 

ESB needs to catch that.

 

Never did I blame Rodgers. It's a critique of Rodgers that I get every time I watch Brees and Brady play...they often manage to put the perfect air underneath the ball...sometimes rifled, sometimes lofted. Rodgers is one of the greatest of all time, but it's one area where I rate others better than him. I was stating that it should have been caught

 

Just seems like an odd play to bring up when mentioning the touch throws of Brees and Brady. There was no opportunity there for a touch throw.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

They didn't need Jordan Love

 

Who did they need?

 

Who cares, literally anyone besides a backup QB who will either prematurely force someone playing fine out of GB, or never take a snap for them. Would rather have seen a bust DT at that spot. At least that's an attempt.

[PeaveyFury]

They didn't need Jordan Love

 

Who did they need?

 

Who cares, literally anyone besides a backup QB who will either prematurely force someone playing fine out of GB, or never take a snap for them.

 

Not an answer.

[PeaveyFury]

So if your the saints what would you offer for ARod? What would it take for the Packers to do the deal?

 

There's really no benefit to the Packers moving Rodgers this offseason, as they'd pay nearly as much to let him go as they would to have him on the roster. Their cap 'out' is after 2021, which is when it'll get interesting. After 2022, they basically can walk away with little consequence if they don't want him on the last year of his deal.

 

Considering the decrease in the cap, the limited cap space they'd get from moving Rodgers this offseason might not even be enough to sign the draft picks you'd get for him.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I don't need to give you an answer and am frankly not qualified to do so as I don't watch college football at all and can barely name 5 guys.

 

But I don't think it's illogical to suggest that a team coming off a 13-3 season probably could have a more "let's get over the hump" move than drafting a backup QB when they literally have one of the best in the league under contract for 4 years.

 

I'm sure many people could give you guys they could have picked other than a backup QB. It was dumb and will always be dumb.

[DHonks]

I think what's nice is that we're entering the off-season with a lot of progress being made:

-TE-- seems solid with Tonyan's breakout year, Deguara, Dafney, Sternberger, etc.

-WR-- was what we were hoping we'd see with ESB and MVS making huge jumps in year 3, just like Adams did. Lazard is solid again. Would be nice to get another piece in the draft. We always seem to draft a receiver. But we also can't count on them making much of a contribution next year. I'd love a fast depth-piece WR that has vision for returns

-OL--always need more depth.

-RB---depends on Jones and Williams, if either or both return

-DL--need more depth

-LB--would be nice to continue to add more depth, especially speed that can cover and not need to come off when in Nickel

-DB--definitely need more depth. Not sure how the Packers can feel good about King after he was responsible for so much that went wrong in this game.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

And no, Favre to Rodgers isn't an equivalency. Those were teams headed in completely different directions.

[PeaveyFury]

I don't need to give you an answer and am frankly not qualified to do so as I don't watch college football at all and can barely name 5 guys.

 

Correct, you don't have to give an answer. But, it's worth noting that when you state 'they should have drafted someone else' while not having any actual idea who they could/should have drafted instead, it makes it hard to take the argument seriously.

 

For the record, the guy that many people (including a LOT here) wanted to take instead was Patrick Queen, who was literally the worst MLB in football this year. So yes, drafting a guy that didn't play a down was actually a more successful move for the Packers, as Queen would have negatively effected the results more than Love had a chance to.

 

Sometimes, the front office IS actually better than the fans at their jobs.

[adambr2]

They could have traded up for Jefferson when he started falling, they did it with Jaire. There were numerous guys who could have positively impacted this year's team in the first couple rounds. Chase Claypool. Tee Higgins. Antoine Winfield.

 

Heck, if they wanted to go QB they could have kept their 3rd rounder and taken Jalen Hurts.

[HarveysWBs]

They didn't need Jordan Love

 

Who did they need?

 

Who cares, literally anyone besides a backup QB who will either prematurely force someone playing fine out of GB, or never take a snap for them. Would rather have seen a bust DT at that spot. At least that's an attempt.

I think if you were to give Gutekunst a crystal ball that told him the Packers team records and player stats from this season, I doubt he drafts Love. And that’s coming from a guy who thinks Gute has to be enamored with Love. The pick does not make sense otherwise.

 

However, no such crystal ball was forthcoming. Rodgers had a relatively pedestrian season in 2019 and the team, for all its strengths, did not seem like it was one 1st round pick away from being a SB team after twice being roadkill in San Francisco and winning a whole heap of one-score games against mediocre competition. So I don’t get the sense of re-litigating the Love pick now. You go to war with the information you have. It’s Rodgers job to believe he’s the man and is ready to win a championship, so I don’t fault him for being upset they drafted his replacement. But I’m not going to rake Gute over the coals for taking the guy he thought was the future at the one position that matters most. There will be plenty of time to do that if and when Love fails.

[adambr2]

I think what's nice is that we're entering the off-season with a lot of progress being made:

-TE-- seems solid with Tonyan's breakout year, Deguara, Dafney, Sternberger, etc.

-WR-- was what we were hoping we'd see with ESB and MVS making huge jumps in year 3, just like Adams did. Lazard is solid again. Would be nice to get another piece in the draft. We always seem to draft a receiver. But we also can't count on them making much of a contribution next year. I'd love a fast depth-piece WR that has vision for returns

-OL--always need more depth.

-RB---depends on Jones and Williams, if either or both return

-DL--need more depth

-LB--would be nice to continue to add more depth, especially speed that can cover and not need to come off when in Nickel

-DB--definitely need more depth. Not sure how the Packers can feel good about King after he was responsible for so much that went wrong in this game.

 

 

It's hard to buy into any "the future is bright" shtick at this point for the franchise. They had a good enough team to get it done this year. They didn't get it done. No guarantee of being back in a conference championship next year, no guarantee of getting HFA at Lambeau, no guarantee of a weak wide open NFC. It's another massive opportunity blown.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I don't need to give you an answer and am frankly not qualified to do so as I don't watch college football at all and can barely name 5 guys.

 

Correct, you don't have to give an answer. But, it's worth noting that when you state 'they should have drafted someone else' while not having any actual idea who they could/should have drafted instead, it makes it hard to take the argument seriously.

 

For the record, the guy that many people (including a LOT here) wanted to take instead was Patrick Queen, who was literally the worst MLB in football this year. So yes, drafting a guy that didn't play a down was actually a more successful move for the Packers, as Queen would have negatively effected the results more than Love had a chance to.

 

Sometimes, the front office IS actually better than the fans at their jobs.

 

A backup QB did nothing to help this team in 2020. I'm not offering a name because it isn't my point. Most first round picks aren't super productive right off the bat anyway. Jordan Love doesn't help Rodgers win. Literally any other player, from a slot WR to a kicker, can do that better.

 

If they had taken Queen, it would have at least been an attempt at addressing a weakness on the team. Not a replacement for the guy who's responsible for any success for the last 13 years.

[PeaveyFury]

A backup QB did nothing to help this team in 2020. I'm not offering a name because it isn't my point. Most first round picks aren't super productive right off the bat anyway. Jordan Love doesn't help Rodgers win. Literally any other player, from a slot WR to a kicker, can do that better.

 

If they had taken Queen, it would have at least been an attempt at addressing a weakness on the team. Not a replacement for the guy who's responsible for any success for the last 13 years.

 

You seem to have missed the point. The goal of the draft is to make the team better, not just to 'try'. Queen would literally have made them worse. You just can't say 'take anybody', because the NFL doesn't work that way. You have to take the right player.

 

As you said, you don't have to give an answer, but not giving one means you're just venting, IMO. Which I guess is fair for tonight....

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I have no problem with drafting Love while Rodgers is on the team. Just do it in 2022. It wasn't necessary.

[PeaveyFury]

I have no problem with drafting Love while Rodgers is on the team. Just do it in 2022.

 

Love wouldn't have been available in 2022. They clearly like Love and 2-3 year of development more than a QB they'd draft and need to start immediately.

[adambr2]

A backup QB did nothing to help this team in 2020. I'm not offering a name because it isn't my point. Most first round picks aren't super productive right off the bat anyway. Jordan Love doesn't help Rodgers win. Literally any other player, from a slot WR to a kicker, can do that better.

 

If they had taken Queen, it would have at least been an attempt at addressing a weakness on the team. Not a replacement for the guy who's responsible for any success for the last 13 years.

 

You seem to have missed the point. The goal of the draft is to make the team better, not just to 'try'. Queen would literally have made them worse. You just can't say 'take anybody', because the NFL doesn't work that way. You have to take the right player.

 

They took a player who they do not currently even trust enough to play in a game over Tim Boyle, and they gave up both a 1st and 3rd round pick to do so. I'm not sure that was the right player either.

[SomewhereInTime]

I think what's nice is that we're entering the off-season with a lot of progress being made:

-TE-- seems solid with Tonyan's breakout year, Deguara, Dafney, Sternberger, etc.

-WR-- was what we were hoping we'd see with ESB and MVS making huge jumps in year 3, just like Adams did. Lazard is solid again. Would be nice to get another piece in the draft. We always seem to draft a receiver. But we also can't count on them making much of a contribution next year. I'd love a fast depth-piece WR that has vision for returns

-OL--always need more depth.

-RB---depends on Jones and Williams, if either or both return

-DL--need more depth

-LB--would be nice to continue to add more depth, especially speed that can cover and not need to come off when in Nickel

-DB--definitely need more depth. Not sure how the Packers can feel good about King after he was responsible for so much that went wrong in this game.

 

 

It's hard to buy into any "the future is bright" shtick at this point for the franchise. They had a good enough team to get it done this year. They didn't get it done. No guarantee of being back in a conference championship next year, no guarantee of getting HFA at Lambeau, no guarantee of a weak wide open NFC. It's another massive opportunity blown.

 

Agreed. The "future is bright" talk was more relevant six or seven years ago after playoff losses. We have an aging QB nearing the end of his time in GB, a cap situation that will lead to multiple high level players walking in the off season, and a GM who likes to throw draft picks away on longterm projects and positions of no value.

[PinaMadness]

I think what's nice is that we're entering the off-season with a lot of progress being made:

-TE-- seems solid with Tonyan's breakout year, Deguara, Dafney, Sternberger, etc.

-WR-- was what we were hoping we'd see with ESB and MVS making huge jumps in year 3, just like Adams did. Lazard is solid again. Would be nice to get another piece in the draft. We always seem to draft a receiver. But we also can't count on them making much of a contribution next year. I'd love a fast depth-piece WR that has vision for returns

-OL--always need more depth.

-RB---depends on Jones and Williams, if either or both return

-DL--need more depth

-LB--would be nice to continue to add more depth, especially speed that can cover and not need to come off when in Nickel

-DB--definitely need more depth. Not sure how the Packers can feel good about King after he was responsible for so much that went wrong in this game.

 

 

It's hard to buy into any "the future is bright" shtick at this point for the franchise. They had a good enough team to get it done this year. They didn't get it done. No guarantee of being back in a conference championship next year, no guarantee of getting HFA at Lambeau, no guarantee of a weak wide open NFC. It's another massive opportunity blown.

The Niners will be back to full strength next year and will most likely have a better quarterback. Tampa isn't disappearing as long as Brady is there. Of course we have to let the off season play out, but I don't see this team being any better than third in the NFC next year. If Dallas can play up to their talent level, maybe even fourth.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

A backup QB did nothing to help this team in 2020. I'm not offering a name because it isn't my point. Most first round picks aren't super productive right off the bat anyway. Jordan Love doesn't help Rodgers win. Literally any other player, from a slot WR to a kicker, can do that better.

 

If they had taken Queen, it would have at least been an attempt at addressing a weakness on the team. Not a replacement for the guy who's responsible for any success for the last 13 years.

 

You seem to have missed the point. The goal of the draft is to make the team better, not just to 'try'. Queen would literally have made them worse. You just can't say 'take anybody', because the NFL doesn't work that way. You have to take the right player.

 

As you said, you don't have to give an answer, but not giving one means you're just venting, IMO. Which I guess is fair for tonight....

 

No, I think you're missing the point. I literally said Rodgers doesn't strike me as a guy who thinks his team has done enough to win.

 

Drafting a QB in the first round is just the latest example of this. If they had drafted a bust WR, I doubt Rodgers would confide to Brett Favre a month later that he "feels like the odd man out."

 

I think this hill you're on is a bit odd as what I'm saying isn't complicated. Love wasn't a position of need, it was not even an attempt at improving Rodgers's chances. It ticked him off.

 

The player they could have picked "working out" is totally irrelevant to what I'm saying. Any pick is a crapshoot. I was never arguing they should have picked Player X instead of Love.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I have no problem with drafting Love while Rodgers is on the team. Just do it in 2022.

 

Love wouldn't have been available in 2022. They clearly like Love and 2-3 year of development more than a QB they'd draft and need to start immediately.

 

Lol, gee, thanks, I wasn't aware. Are there no QBs in the other drafts?