Brewers sign UTL Jace Peterson to minor league deal

[sveumrules]

But still no world series...All the justification in the world doesn't change that fact.

 

I mean, you can throw those kind of stats and numbers in our faces all day long, but the bottom line is, we have nothing to really show for it.

 

In 2017, no one expected the Brewers to compete for anything & they had the lowest payroll in baseball & just missed the playoffs by one game. But they didn't win the World Series, so who cares? Might as well have spent the whole summer watching the Tigers win 64 games with 3rd highest payroll in MLB.

 

In 2018, the Brewers splurged. Yelich & Cain (& Wade Miley too!!). Payroll all the way up to 22nd. Fans were excited, but even then no one was predicting 5th most wins in MLB & Game 7 of the NLCS. But they didn't win tbe World Series, so what did they really accomplish? Probably would have been just as fun to spend half the year watching the Orioles win 47 games with the 10th highest payroll in MLB.

 

In 2019, the payroll went up again (17th!!), but despite spending considerably more than in 2018, the team did not win as many games. Even so, they still made the posteseason (where they were 6 outs from knocking out the eventual WS Champs) after going on an historic September run without the reigning league MVP. They didn't win the WS though, so...BORING. Could have just watched the Mariners win 68 games with the 10th highest payroll if I wanted to watch a team NOT win the World Series.

 

If winning the WS is the only successful outcome, 25 teams have nothing to show for the last five years. Out of those 25 teams, the Brewers have objectively been among the most interesting to follow on a day to day basis, which is all I can really ask for from an entertainment product.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I agree with the above but you can't fault the fans for wanting to see some action. That was one of the worst groups I've watched last year, despite that they were basically .500. They were incredibly boring to watch, and less fun than worse versions of the Brewers.

[monty57]

But still no world series...All the justification in the world doesn't change that fact.

 

I get it, winning is better than losing, but just one single time, I'd like to see the Brewers win it all!

 

I mean, you can throw those kind of stats and numbers in our faces all day long, but the bottom line is, we have nothing to really show for it.

 

Someday though...

 

Even with hindsight being 20/20, please tell me the realistic moves they could have made in the last few years that would have guaranteed them a World Series win.

 

Then, without the convenience of knowing how players with perform, please tell me the moves right now that they can make that will guarantee a World Series win now or in the next few years.

 

While we're at it, please let the team know exactly when Covid will be under control and stadiums will be filled with fans, so they can adjust their budget and know they aren't going to head into bankruptcy if they spend too much.

 

I'd bet that if there were moves that could guarantee a Brewers World Series, and were remotely realistic due to the Brewers' financial situation, Attanasio would be on board with making those moves. I want to see the Brewers make some moves as much as anyone, but I would not want to be in the position of many owners in baseball, where they have to make big money decisions without having answers to some really important questions. I can't really blame anyone for erring on the side of caution.

[sveumrules]

I agree with the above but you can't fault the fans for wanting to see some action. That was one of the worst groups I've watched last year, despite that they were basically .500. They were incredibly boring to watch, and less fun than worse versions of the Brewers.

 

If action guaranteed results, I could understand, but it doesn't so I guess don't see the point of making it the defining aspect of my fandom. People were ready to trade Cain in year two of five, Brewerfans spent the better part of a decade complaining about Braun's salary, some want to dump Yelich after 60 games because he makes money.

 

Sure, last year's offense was bad, the other half of the team was pretty exciting though. Either way, it was 60 games in a pandemic, people are giving it way too much weight in my eyes. Just like projection systems & MLB front offices will use multiple years of data (& weight 2020 less than usual given its abbreviated nature) to set median expectations for future outcomes, so do I.

 

Here's how I look at the results of 2020...we were lucky to have any at all. Guys were risking the lives & long term health of themselves & their family members/loved ones to play a game for my entertainment. I guess I just can't bring myself to say, "Thanks guys, but I was bored" after all that.

[jerichoholicninja]

But still no world series...All the justification in the world doesn't change that fact.

 

I mean, you can throw those kind of stats and numbers in our faces all day long, but the bottom line is, we have nothing to really show for it.

 

In 2017, no one expected the Brewers to compete for anything & they had the lowest payroll in baseball & just missed the playoffs by one game. But they didn't win the World Series, so who cares? Might as well have spent the whole summer watching the Tigers win 64 games with 3rd highest payroll in MLB.

 

In 2018, the Brewers splurged. Yelich & Cain (& Wade Miley too!!). Payroll all the way up to 22nd. Fans were excited, but even then no one was predicting 5th most wins in MLB & Game 7 of the NLCS. But they didn't win tbe World Series, so what did they really accomplish? Probably would have been just as fun to spend half the year watching the Orioles win 47 games with the 10th highest payroll in MLB.

 

In 2019, the payroll went up again (17th!!), but despite spending considerably more than in 2018, the team did not win as many games. Even so, they still made the posteseason (where they were 6 outs from knocking out the eventual WS Champs) after going on an historic September run without the reigning league MVP. They didn't win the WS though, so...BORING. Could have just watched the Mariners win 68 games with the 10th highest payroll if I wanted to watch a team NOT win the World Series.

 

If winning the WS is the only successful outcome, 25 teams have nothing to show for the last five years. Out of those 25 teams, the Brewers have objectively been among the most interesting to follow on a day to day basis, which is all I can really ask for from an entertainment product.

 

I highly approve of both the content and passive aggressive attitude of this post.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I agree with the above but you can't fault the fans for wanting to see some action. That was one of the worst groups I've watched last year, despite that they were basically .500. They were incredibly boring to watch, and less fun than worse versions of the Brewers.

 

If action guaranteed results, I could understand, but it doesn't so I guess don't see the point of making it the defining aspect of my fandom. People were ready to trade Cain in year two of five, Brewerfans spent the better part of a decade complaining about Braun's salary, some want to dump Yelich after 60 games because he makes money.

 

Sure, last year's offense was bad, the other half of the team was pretty exciting though. Either way, it was 60 games in a pandemic, people are giving it way too much weight in my eyes. Just like projection systems & MLB front offices will use multiple years of data (& weight 2020 less than usual given its abbreviated nature) to set median expectations for future outcomes, so do I.

 

Here's how I look at the results of 2020...we were lucky to have any at all. Guys were risking the lives & long term health of themselves & their family members/loved ones to play a game for my entertainment. I guess I just can't bring myself to say, "Thanks guys, but I was bored" after all that.

 

Action doesn't guarantee results, but a regression after two strong playoff type seasons guarantees the fans to call for action. That's all I was saying. Fans are fans. I don't begrudge any fan for wanting to see a new corner infielder.

[MNBrew]

Action doesn't guarantee results, but a regression after two strong playoff type seasons guarantees the fans to call for action. That's all I was saying. Fans are fans. I don't begrudge any fan for wanting to see a new good corner infielder.

Fixed.

[SomewhereInTime]

But still no world series...All the justification in the world doesn't change that fact.

 

I mean, you can throw those kind of stats and numbers in our faces all day long, but the bottom line is, we have nothing to really show for it.

 

In 2017, no one expected the Brewers to compete for anything & they had the lowest payroll in baseball & just missed the playoffs by one game. But they didn't win the World Series, so who cares? Might as well have spent the whole summer watching the Tigers win 64 games with 3rd highest payroll in MLB.

 

In 2018, the Brewers splurged. Yelich & Cain (& Wade Miley too!!). Payroll all the way up to 22nd. Fans were excited, but even then no one was predicting 5th most wins in MLB & Game 7 of the NLCS. But they didn't win tbe World Series, so what did they really accomplish? Probably would have been just as fun to spend half the year watching the Orioles win 47 games with the 10th highest payroll in MLB.

 

In 2019, the payroll went up again (17th!!), but despite spending considerably more than in 2018, the team did not win as many games. Even so, they still made the posteseason (where they were 6 outs from knocking out the eventual WS Champs) after going on an historic September run without the reigning league MVP. They didn't win the WS though, so...BORING. Could have just watched the Mariners win 68 games with the 10th highest payroll if I wanted to watch a team NOT win the World Series.

 

If winning the WS is the only successful outcome, 25 teams have nothing to show for the last five years. Out of those 25 teams, the Brewers have objectively been among the most interesting to follow on a day to day basis, which is all I can really ask for from an entertainment product.

 

This is a great post. I think sometimes people get a player's mentality when it comes to fandom. As a player your goal is always a championship, win at all costs, 2nd is nothing, etc. and it has to be that way as a player, you can't really be satisfied because when you are, you get passed by someone else. As a fan though, you can kind of view things in a broader picture, for me I enjoy watching a competitive team all summer and I hope the Brewers can advance as far as possible. That does not mean anything short of a championship is failure, if you have that mentality, basically every year will be failure. What would be the point of devoting any time to following something like that?

[markedman5]

Meaningful games in September.......that is my goal for every season.

[Soupbone]

In reference to SomewhereInTime's post. I think that there are two type's of fans. Those that feel "for me I enjoy watching a competitive team all summer and I hope the Brewers can advance as far as possible. That does not mean anything short of a championship is failure, if you have that mentality, basically every year will be failure. What would be the point of devoting any time to following something like that?" But there are those that want to win a championship. Neither is right or wrong. But to feel that those who want, at all cost, to win a WS don't tell them they should be satisfied with making the playoffs the last 3 years. Your opinion is just as important as the next person who posts here.

[sveumrules]

I don't think anyone is saying anyone else is right or wrong. All opinions are certainly valid, though generally the validity increases along with the amount of objective information one has to support their opinion.

 

If someone wants to set their satisfaction threshold at "win World Series" that's their prerogative, they can do what they want to do. I don't think its an opinion though that any Brewers fan who does so is likely setting themselves up for a lifetime of dissatisfaction.

[SomewhereInTime]

In reference to SomewhereInTime's post. I think that there are two type's of fans. Those that feel "for me I enjoy watching a competitive team all summer and I hope the Brewers can advance as far as possible. That does not mean anything short of a championship is failure, if you have that mentality, basically every year will be failure. What would be the point of devoting any time to following something like that?" But there are those that want to win a championship. Neither is right or wrong. But to feel that those who want, at all cost, to win a WS don't tell them they should be satisfied with making the playoffs the last 3 years. Your opinion is just as important as the next person who posts here.

 

I definitely want to see them win a championship but I'm not going to look at it as a failed or bad season if they come up just short this year. Everyone has a right to be as miserable as they want to be.

[monty57]

Everyone wants the team to win a World Series. The question is really, what is the best way to get that World Series victory given the Brewers' situation (aka baseball willfully gives an advantage to teams in big markets).

 

Simply put, there seem to be two categories of how to do this.

 

1) Go "all in." This group looks at the roster and sees windows of opportunity. When you have a star player or two, you should "sell the farm" and spend as much as possible on FAs to do whatever it takes to win in that short window. They understand that this could lead to periods of sub-.500 baseball when the window closes, but they're willing to accept that in order to do everything possible to win now. In fact, that might even be okay, because then they'll get top draft picks we can build the next "window" around. This group sees Yelich in his prime, along with a few others like Woodruff, Hiura, Hader, and Burns and says that we need to act now.

 

Goal: Build the strongest team in baseball for a 1-2 year window.

 

2) Create a "continually competitive" team. This group wants to bring in young, "controlled" talent and maintain a strong farm. The goal is to build a strong core that is capable of making the playoffs, because once there anything can happen. They want to maintain flexibility both in terms of "team control" and in terms of finances, so that strategic moves can be made if the right opportunity arises. They never want to go "all in," because that means trading away key pieces that will help keep the team competitive long term, and will lead to a long rebuilding period.

 

Goal: Build a core that can get you to the playoffs as often as possible. Eventually you'll be "hot at the right time" and win it all.

 

 

Neither fan is necessarily wrong, but moves made that will appeal to one group will irritate the other. Stearns is more of a "Group 2" guy, so that frustrates people in "Group 1." When people in "Group 1" voice their frustration, that irritates people in "Group 2." Welcome to Brewerfan.net.

 

There is a third group, which consists of the people who visit most fan sites and seemingly only go there to ridicule others and complain about everything. That group is the reason we're all here.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Everyone wants the team to win a World Series. The question is really, what is the best way to get that World Series victory given the Brewers' situation (aka baseball willfully gives an advantage to teams in big markets).

 

Simply put, there seem to be two categories of how to do this.

 

1) Go "all in." This group looks at the roster and sees windows of opportunity. When you have a star player or two, you should "sell the farm" and spend as much as possible on FAs to do whatever it takes to win in that short window. They understand that this could lead to periods of sub-.500 baseball when the window closes, but they're willing to accept that in order to do everything possible to win now. In fact, that might even be okay, because then they'll get top draft picks we can build the next "window" around. This group sees Yelich in his prime, along with a few others like Woodruff, Hiura, Hader, and Burns and says that we need to act now.

 

Goal: Build the strongest team in baseball for a 1-2 year window.

 

2) Create a "continually competitive" team. This group wants to bring in young, "controlled" talent and maintain a strong farm. The goal is to build a strong core that is capable of making the playoffs, because once there anything can happen. They want to maintain flexibility both in terms of "team control" and in terms of finances, so that strategic moves can be made if the right opportunity arises. They never want to go "all in," because that means trading away key pieces that will help keep the team competitive long term, and will lead to a long rebuilding period.

 

Goal: Build a core that can get you to the playoffs as often as possible. Eventually you'll be "hot at the right time" and win it all.

 

 

Neither fan is necessarily wrong, but moves made that will appeal to one group will irritate the other. Stearns is more of a "Group 2" guy, so that frustrates people in "Group 1." When people in "Group 1" voice their frustration, that irritates people in "Group 2." Welcome to Brewerfan.net.

 

There is a third group, which consists of the people who visit most fan sites and seemingly only go there to ridicule others and complain about everything. That group is the reason we're all here.

 

I don't think this idea could have been summed up more perfectly. Bravo.

 

 

 

 

 

 

(I do wish that those in Group 3 would make their visits to the IGT's a little less frequent.)

[mtrebs]

Since this thread has deviated from signing Jace Peterson (puke!) to a discussion of fandom... I think everyone has enjoyed the "success" that the Brewers had in recent year. Watching the recent teams (except for 2020) has been very exciting and there has been some good and very good teams. It's a world of difference compared to a decade earlier. The sad part is that unless the Brewers can somehow catch lightning in a bottle (which the did in 2018 but just fell short), the best that they'll be for a period of time is just a good team that may have some outlier very good years. So, while the team has been much more entertaining and has produced well for an extended period during the regular season, not producing in the postseason with a WS win, or even a WS appearance takes away from that for a bunch of fans... not while those seasons are occurring, but rather in the grand scheme of things.

[brewers888]

Stearns is obsessed with weak hitting middle infielders. He signs a bunch of them every offseason and drafts them each year as well.

[sveumrules]

Stearns is obsessed with weak hitting middle infielders. He signs a bunch of them every offseason and drafts them each year as well.

 

Do Stearns & company draft them every year or does the scouting director?

 

Which weak hitting middle infielders did the Brewers draft in 2016, 2017 & 2019?

[sveumrules]

This is a major loss that few will even think about. Montgomery did a great job as the scouting director and our drafts have suffered greatly since he was promoted out of that position.

 

I think the team made a big mistake promoting Arnold to GM instead of Montgomery who was our most indispensable front office employee outside of Stearns.

 

From what I can tell, Montgomery was hired as scouting director in November 2014 & promoted to the front office in September 2016, so he was scouting director for two drafts.

 

2015 produced Grisham & a whole lot of nothing, 2016 was two big whiffs in Ray & Erceg before Feliciano in the 2nd & Burnes in the 4th.

 

Montgomery literally blew the biggest pick of the Stearns tenure.

 

Also, since we're talking about scouting directors, you kind of ghosted on the Ray Montgomery thread awhile back. Still curious how you feel our drafts have suffered greatly since he left when he really only ever drafted two guys in Grisham/Burnes, maybe a third in Feliciano, & also blew the highest pick we've had since Stearns & company got here taking Ray 5th overall?

[CheeseheadInQC]

Stearns is obsessed with weak hitting middle infielders. He signs a bunch of them every offseason and drafts them each year as well.

 

Because middle infielders who can hit 25 home runs are typically falling over each other to sign minor league and/or bargain-basement major league contracts? The Brewers came into this offseason with four likely AAA position players, none of whom play the middle infield. There were always going to be a bunch of signings/waiver claims of guys like Peterson, Reyes and Lopez this year because there had to be.

 

In the Brewers' last five drafts, they have drafted three players in the first five rounds who would come close to fitting your description (they've drafted four middle infielders total, but I don't think you're talking Hiura). In that same period they have spent five early picks on catchers and six on outfielders to go along with two corner infielders and nine pitchers. Outside of the abundance of catchers, it doesn't exactly seem out of balance.

[brewers888]

This is a major loss that few will even think about. Montgomery did a great job as the scouting director and our drafts have suffered greatly since he was promoted out of that position.

 

I think the team made a big mistake promoting Arnold to GM instead of Montgomery who was our most indispensable front office employee outside of Stearns.

 

From what I can tell, Montgomery was hired as scouting director in November 2014 & promoted to the front office in September 2016, so he was scouting director for two drafts.

 

2015 produced Grisham & a whole lot of nothing, 2016 was two big whiffs in Ray & Erceg before Feliciano in the 2nd & Burnes in the 4th.

 

Montgomery literally blew the biggest pick of the Stearns tenure.

 

Also, since we're talking about scouting directors, you kind of ghosted on the Ray Montgomery thread awhile back. Still curious how you feel our drafts have suffered greatly since he left when he really only ever drafted two guys in Grisham/Burnes, maybe a third in Feliciano, & also blew the highest pick we've had since Stearns & company got here taking Ray 5th overall?

 

Stearns was the one making the first round picks. He focuses almost exclusively on middle infielders, athletic outfielders, and college pitchers. Montgomery has a great reputation from his time running the DBacks drafts to his time in Milwaukee.

[brewers888]

We focus way too much on middle infielders in the draft as well as our international signings yet somehow other than Hiura we have nothing to show for it. Melvin was too focused on building a beer league softball team and Stearns is way too obsessed with middle infielders and athleticism often ignoring the all important hit and power tools.

[brewers888]

When was the last time this team drafted a power hitting third or even first baseman for that matter. I guess Erceg fit the bill at the time but Stearns is not nearly focused enough on power at the corner positions.

[Eye Black]

Stearns was the one making the first round picks. He focuses almost exclusively on middle infielders, athletic outfielders, and college pitchers. Montgomery has a great reputation from his time running the DBacks drafts to his time in Milwaukee.

When was the last time this team drafted a power hitting third or even first baseman for that matter. I guess Erceg fit the bill at the time but Stearns is not nearly focused enough on power at the corner positions.

 

Which power hitting 1B or 3B (that was available at the Brewers selection) do you think they missed out on in the 1st round the past five years?

 

Your hot take sounds great until you actually take 5 minutes to look at the 1st rounds the past several years.

[CheeseheadInQC]

We focus way too much on middle infielders in the draft as well as our international signings yet somehow other than Hiura we have nothing to show for it. Melvin was too focused on building a beer league softball team and Stearns is way too obsessed with middle infielders and athleticism often ignoring the all important hit and power tools.

Take a look at the mlb.com top 30 international prospects for this year. Every infielder is listed as a shortstop. The positions seem to have more to do with the “best player on the high school team plays shortstop” phenomenon than any selection by the Brewers outside the norm.

[Eye Black]

We focus way too much on middle infielders in the draft as well as our international signings yet somehow other than Hiura we have nothing to show for it. Melvin was too focused on building a beer league softball team and Stearns is way too obsessed with middle infielders and athleticism often ignoring the all important hit and power tools.

Take a look at the mlb.com top 30 international prospects for this year. Every infielder is listed as a shortstop. The positions seem to have more to do with the “best player on the high school team plays shortstop” phenomenon than any selection by the Brewers outside the norm.

Exactly, when you’re signing 16 year old kids to 6- and 7-figure deals you’re going to give that money to the best and most athletic players which are often going to be playing shortstop at that age. Miguel Sano was a shortstop at 16 years old. Many international players move positions as they develop in professional baseball.