Game 16: Packers @ Bears - Sunday, January 3rd , 3:25PM CT

[LouisEly]

Would you consider any other receiver on the team a legitimate #2 behind Adams? I certainly wouldn't.

Coming into today, MVS was 63rd in the league in receiving yards. Ten players ahead of him are TEs or RBs, putting him at 53rd in the NFL in receiving yards. Using receiving yards as a proxy, he technically is a low #2.

 

What I want to know is, where is it written in stone that a "legitimate #2" WR is necessary to win the Super Bowl? As others have said, who were the "legitimate #2" WRs on those New England teams?

 

Carolina has Moore, Samuel, and Robby Anderson, and their season is over. Dallas has Cooper, Gallup, and Lamb, and their season is over. Houston has Cooks and Fuller, and their season is over. Minnesota has Jefferson and Thielen, and their season is over. Tennessee has Davis and Brown, and GB stomped a mud hole in them.

 

That's my point... they don't need a "legitimate #2" to win.

[PinaMadness]

Would you consider any other receiver on the team a legitimate #2 behind Adams? I certainly wouldn't.

Coming into today, MVS was 63rd in the league in receiving yards. Ten players ahead of him are TEs or RBs, putting him at 53rd in the NFL in receiving yards. Using receiving yards as a proxy, he technically is a low #2.

 

What I want to know is, where is it written in stone that a "legitimate #2" WR is necessary to win the Super Bowl? As others have said, who were the "legitimate #2" WRs on those New England teams?

 

Carolina has Moore, Samuel, and Robby Anderson, and their season is over. Dallas has Cooper, Gallup, and Lamb, and their season is over. Houston has Cooks and Fuller, and their season is over. Minnesota has Jefferson and Thielen, and their season is over. Tennessee has Davis and Brown, and GB stomped a mud hole in them.

 

That's my point... they don't need a "legitimate #2" to win.

None of those teams had Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady as their quarterback either. And are they winning? Because last I saw, in 28 years of Hall of Fame quarterback play, they only have two Super Bowls to show for it so let's not start comparing them to the Patriots. I know division titles are considered successful seasons by some here but not to me. It's not being spoiled from so many playoff seasons with Favre and Rodgers. It's frustration that they didn't win more than they should've.

[brewerfan82]

And in those 28 years only 3 teams had more Super Bowl victories than the Packers and 25 teams had fewer Super Bowl victories than the Packers. It's difficult to win the Super Bowl, not all HoF quarterbacks get to have the Tom Brady experience.

[sveumrules]

The Packers are one of only six franchises with multiple Super Bowl wins in the last 25 years...

 

New England (6), Denver (3), Green Bay (2), Pittsburgh (2), Baltimore (2) & New York (2).

 

Of the teams outside of New England, I think you could make a pretty solid case for GB being the 2nd best team of the last 25 years. Could they maybe have done some things differently along the way & been definitively the 2nd best team of the last 25 years? I guess.

 

At worst, the Packers have been a top 5 team over the last 25 years. Hard for me to complain about that in a 32 team league, especially as someone who remembers pre-Majik Packers football.

[sveumrules]

A little further context for the non-NE multiple SB winners over the last 25 years...

 

GBP: 18 playoff appearances

PIT: 15 playoff appearances

BAL: 13 playoff appearances

DEN: 12 playoff appearances

NYG: 9 playoff appearances

[SomewhereInTime]

I mean as far as HFA goes, GB hasn't lost a home playoff game since the 2013 season, and honestly that game was against a much better team, if anything the cold weather is what kept it close. They have won three straight and four of their last five.

 

Also none of that really actually matters given the amount of roster turnover in the last 20 years, there is almost no one on the team that has lost a home playoff game at lambeau.

[PeaveyFury]

Monday morning thoughts:

1)I'll never be one of the 'bye is bad' people that seem to come out of the woodwork this time of year. I think the bye can be bad when you're at a fine edge because you're fighting like heck to make it in, ala the 2010 Packers, or when you're stumbling a bit already like the 2011 Packers. Beyond that, it's one less opportunity to lose, and gives you the chance to get healthier than your eventual opponent. Regarding HFA, I think some of the stuff about our record in the playoffs is a touch skewed by playing/losing to the Giants, aka another team that is hypothetically used to playing outside in the cold. When your hypothetical opponents, though, include Tampa Bay and New Orleans, I'll take any possible edge you can get, even if it's without fans.

2)Like it or not (for those that want a coordinator change), the defense is doing what it needs to in order for this team to win. As others noted, Montgomery was largely held in check, and the team turned the ball over. They've really managed to largely bottle-up two pretty good RBs the last two weeks. As my family and I were saying during the game yesterday, if you make the Bears throw it, you win. And they did.

3)I can't believe we're still having the 'need a receiver' argument. Honestly, is that all dependent on a single ball yesterday? If MVS catches the 2nd long TD, are we sitting here talking about how great a 2nd he is? This team is where it is largely due to the offense, and they're firing very well, and their receiving corps is the same as it has been. Time for the fan base to move on, at least until the 2021 off season starts in March.

4)If Rodgers isn't the MVP, the system is loony tunes. Henry is a great RB. Mahomes is sure to win a couple more himself. And Allen was really good for Buffalo. But Rodgers is the MVP.

5)Still kind of lamenting the 2.5 games we lost from Adams this year. I firmly believe his season, which was already one of the best ever, would have been undisputed as the best ever if he had those games back.

6)How good a player has Gary become? 1.5 TFLs yesterday, and a fumble recovery. Glad the team put the time in with him and had the patience that us fans so often lack.

7)As acceptable as the defense has been, it seems that special teams are trying their hardest to be the reason we potentially DON'T win in January. Good grief, the unit literally every week manages to give up a play that nearly turns the game in favor of the other team. At this point, I truly don't care about extra stuff like returning kicks for TDs and the like, I just want the basics done well for the rest of the way: Field punts cleanly (and I don't care if you fair catch every single time), get every punt away (and I don't even care about yardage), get every kickoff to the end zone with none of them out of bounds, and give up no chunk plays to the opponents' punt returners. That's it.

 

On to playoff football....

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I mean as far as HFA goes, GB hasn't lost a home playoff game since the 2013 season, and honestly that game was against a much better team, if anything the cold weather is what kept it close. They have won three straight and four of their last five.

 

Also none of that really actually matters given the amount of roster turnover in the last 20 years, there is almost no one on the team that has lost a home playoff game at lambeau.

 

 

It's a highly situational stat, which is why I get annoyed with the "their record at home is X-X"

 

Dissect their playoff losses at home.

 

One was a reeling, injured team getting run over by Michael Vick. Another was a 10-6 team playing a 10-6 division rival. Another was an 8-7-1 team playing SF, who was way better, and wound up in the NFCCG or Super Bowl, I can't recall. But they likely get demolished in SF. The fourth game was the OT loss to NYG with Favre - and I would say playing in GB got the game to OT when the brutal conditions contributed to Tynes's multiple missed kicks.

 

The only dud that most folks didn't see coming was the '11 game with NYG (who won the Super Bowl). The rest were mediocre teams, badly injured teams, or teams straight up worse than who they were playing.

 

I don't even think the fans are the major advantage unless you're in a handful of stadiums. It's the simple pleasure of sleeping in your own bed, knowing your environment, your food, your surroundings that I think most players love. You get ta month where you don't have to travel if you win a couple games.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Green Bay likely doesn't win that Seahawk playoff game last season if it happened in Seattle.

 

The only dud that most folks didn't see coming was the '11 game with NYG (who won the Super Bowl).

 

That game was so fluky, too - it was obvious from the start that Rodgers was off and rusty from having 3 weeks time off as he missed some gimme throws to extend drives and score more points - and even with that they were only down a field goal late in the first half until giving up a 20+ yard run playing a prevent defense AND allowing the RB to get out of bounds to set up the crushing end of half hail mary to give the Giants a 10 point halftime lead. 4 Packer turnovers, many of them fumbles, prevented any rhythm on offense for a team that relied on that all season long. They simply fell on their face and let a good Giants team beat them. It wasn't because HFA vanished.

[adambr2]

Even that 2011 Packer team was kind of a paper tiger as much as a 15-1 team can be a paper tiger. The offense was awesome. But that defense was so horrendous that they would be vulnerable in any game where they had any kind of offensive letdown.

 

This year's Packer team has a similar offense to 2011, but a much better defense. Our special teams remains a major liability, so we need to minimize their impact on the game as much as we can by taking touchbacks, fair catching, avoiding returns on both sides when possible, etc.

[Underachiever]

Even that 2011 Packer team was kind of a paper tiger as much as a 15-1 team can be a paper tiger. The offense was awesome. But that defense was so horrendous that they would be vulnerable in any game where they had any kind of offensive letdown.

 

This year's Packer team has a similar offense to 2011, but a much better defense. Our special teams remains a major liability, so we need to minimize their impact on the game as much as we can by taking touchbacks, fair catching, avoiding returns on both sides when possible, etc.

SIGN JACK DUNN!

[igor67]

I don't know what can really be done at this stage with the coverage. I would be very happy to settle for fair catching every punt, and taking a chance on a touch back on anything inside the 10 yard line that's for sure. I would definitely thinking about punting out of bounds against any good returner for sure though.

[LouisEly]

3)I can't believe we're still having the 'need a receiver' argument. Honestly, is that all dependent on a single ball yesterday? If MVS catches the 2nd long TD, are we sitting here talking about how great a 2nd he is? This team is where it is largely due to the offense, and they're firing very well, and their receiving corps is the same as it has been. Time for the fan base to move on, at least until the 2021 off season starts in March.

[sarcasm]This is because WRs for other teams never drop passes. Only GB WRs drop passes.[/sarcasm]

[nodakfan17]

Did anyone else catch that after Dominique Daffney spiked the ball following his first TD catch, Allen Lazard tracked it down for him? I thought that was a neat gesture.

[HiAndTight]

3)I can't believe we're still having the 'need a receiver' argument. Honestly, is that all dependent on a single ball yesterday? If MVS catches the 2nd long TD, are we sitting here talking about how great a 2nd he is? This team is where it is largely due to the offense, and they're firing very well, and their receiving corps is the same as it has been. Time for the fan base to move on, at least until the 2021 off season starts in March.

[sarcasm]This is because WRs for other teams never drop passes. Only GB WRs drop passes.[/sarcasm]

 

 

Well...I do think the Packers had the most dropped passes of any team. It was them and the Steelers.

 

Still, Packers WR'ers get the most separation per route or any other team. That tells you they're plenty talented and that's not the issue. I would also guess they're among the best at making contested catches.

 

It's obvious this fan base underestimated the offensive talent we had. Even with the issues MVS has had, he puts pressure on the defense and MLF does an outstanding job scheming guys open. And when all else fails, Rodgers has that connection with Adams that's rare. Similar to the one he had with Jordy...though Adams may even be better.

 

The Bears were the exact type of defense I thought would give them trouble. Dominant pass rusher, another very good edge rusher, dominant big man collapsing the pocket, great speed at MLB'er, and an AP safety. They've dominated them.

 

This team looks better at this point in the year than any Packers team we've had under Rodgers IMO.

[MrTPlush]

The only other team I could think of is the 2016 team. That team also won the last 6 games in similar fashion. This is probably the most balanced team Rodgers has had since 2014 in my opinion.

[CheezWizHed]

Well...I do think the Packers had the most dropped passes of any team. It was them and the Steelers.

 

Nope. Cowboys at 31 then Steelers. Packers at 20 and AZ Cardinals with 9. So dead in the middle. Would be curious to change that to drops/attempt... I'm sure we would show up even better there.

 

http://scores.nbcsports.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=232

[brewcrewdue80]

Well...I do think the Packers had the most dropped passes of any team. It was them and the Steelers.

 

Nope. Cowboys at 31 then Steelers. Packers at 20 and AZ Cardinals with 9. So dead in the middle. Would be curious to change that to drops/attempt... I'm sure we would show up even better there.

 

http://scores.nbcsports.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=232

 

That's odd as when you go to Pro football reference Green nay in advanced receiving has 27 drops. I couldnt find a Team comparison on advanced receiving to see how GB ranked among the other NFL teams.

[CheezWizHed]

I'm not sure how they count drops, but from a subjective point of view I wouldn't characterize the team as having a drop problem. They have had a few key/impactful/highly visible drops (Donte's 4th down short TD drop, MVS had a couple deep ones), but in all drops have been pretty rare. Even from the point that Rodgers had a 70+% completion rate would indicated you don't have much of an issue.

 

I'd be surprised to find them to be one of the worst.

[HiAndTight]

Well...I do think the Packers had the most dropped passes of any team. It was them and the Steelers.

 

Nope. Cowboys at 31 then Steelers. Packers at 20 and AZ Cardinals with 9. So dead in the middle. Would be curious to change that to drops/attempt... I'm sure we would show up even better there.

 

http://scores.nbcsports.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=232

 

Dropped passes are obviously counted differently by different sites(probably similar to tackles).

 

Next Gen has them with 27 dropped passes. So just behind the Steelers.

 

https://twitter.com/reinhurdler/status/1336725912331685893/photo/1

[HiAndTight]

I'm not sure how they count drops, but from a subjective point of view I wouldn't characterize the team as having a drop problem. They have had a few key/impactful/highly visible drops (Donte's 4th down short TD drop, MVS had a couple deep ones), but in all drops have been pretty rare. Even from the point that Rodgers had a 70+% completion rate would indicated you don't have much of an issue.

 

I'd be surprised to find them to be one of the worst.

 

 

I think you're forgetting about a lot of the drops, particularly early in the season. There was one game in particular that stands out that Sternberger had 2 particularly bad drops in that they were easy catches, Tonyan had one, MVS had a couple. Though he's had a poor catch rate all season long.

 

Also, Dante?

[CheezWizHed]

I'm not sure how they count drops, but from a subjective point of view I wouldn't characterize the team as having a drop problem. They have had a few key/impactful/highly visible drops (Donte's 4th down short TD drop, MVS had a couple deep ones), but in all drops have been pretty rare. Even from the point that Rodgers had a 70+% completion rate would indicated you don't have much of an issue.

 

I'd be surprised to find them to be one of the worst.

 

 

I think you're forgetting about a lot of the drops, particularly early in the season. There was one game in particular that stands out that Sternberger had 2 particularly bad drops in that they were easy catches, Tonyan had one, MVS had a couple. Though he's had a poor catch rate all season long.

 

Also, Dante?

 

I wasn't trying to list each drop, I was providing examples of when the drops were highly impactful (which ironically, that chart was pointing out - lost points based on dropped passes). And you are correct that we had one game where everyone must've used crisco instead of stick-um on their gloves.

 

Pro Football reference also lists the team at 27 drops - but Tonyan had none. So I'm not sure what you are remembering with that one.

 

I'd be curious if you took out that one game and MVS (he obviously has issues with catching consistency) how the rest of the numbers would stack up.

[HiAndTight]

I'm not sure how they count drops, but from a subjective point of view I wouldn't characterize the team as having a drop problem. They have had a few key/impactful/highly visible drops (Donte's 4th down short TD drop, MVS had a couple deep ones), but in all drops have been pretty rare. Even from the point that Rodgers had a 70+% completion rate would indicated you don't have much of an issue.

 

I'd be surprised to find them to be one of the worst.

 

 

I think you're forgetting about a lot of the drops, particularly early in the season. There was one game in particular that stands out that Sternberger had 2 particularly bad drops in that they were easy catches, Tonyan had one, MVS had a couple. Though he's had a poor catch rate all season long.

 

Also, Dante?

 

I wasn't trying to list each drop, I was providing examples of when the drops were highly impactful (which ironically, that chart was pointing out - lost points based on dropped passes). And you are correct that we had one game where everyone must've used crisco instead of stick-um on their gloves.

 

Pro Football reference also lists the team at 27 drops - but Tonyan had none. So I'm not sure what you are remembering with that one.

 

I'd be curious if you took out that one game and MVS (he obviously has issues with catching consistency) how the rest of the numbers would stack up.

 

I'm remembering the Lions game. And if you took out the worst game every team had and then you took out the WR'er who had the most drops, I'm guessing the list wouldn't look much different. But I don't know that it really matters.

 

 

https://journaltimes.com/sports/football/packers-look---no-hands-drops-continue-to-haunt-receivers/article_2b1e2f96-2cd6-5040-a1a8-76ae13217ba0.html#:~:text=Rodgers%20has%20long%20said%20that,Lazard%20and%20Marquez%20Valdes%2DScantling.

 

After catching an 11-yard touchdown pass during Sunday’s 42-21 victory over the Detroit Lions at Lambeau Field, Robert Tonyan sought out the guy who threw it: Aaron Rodgers.

 

Tonyan, the Green Bay Packers third-year tight end, wanted to tell his quarterback how much he appreciated the show of confidence in him considering he’d dropped a pass earlier in the game.

[CheezWizHed]

Was the drop on a play with a penalty - thus not counting in the statistics?

[HiAndTight]

Was the drop on a play with a penalty - thus not counting in the statistics?

 

No, it was a play where he was running maybe a 15-yard crossing route and there was a LB'er underneath him in coverage. Rodgers put it right on Tonyan, but it looked like the LB'er got his hand up and distracted Tonyan.

 

It was on the 1st series of the game on a 3rd down.