Bucks 2020-2021 season thread

[sveumrules]

This is Giannis's 8th season overall & 5th as an All-NBA caliber player.

 

Jordan won his first title in his 7th season. LeBron won his first title in his 9th season & needed to form a super team to do it. Durant win his first ring in his 10th season & needed to join an already historically great Warriors team to do it.

 

I guess Kobe won his first ring in his 4th season, but he was playing with Shaq, who was da real MVP & in his 8th season.

 

Giannis is pretty much right on schedule as far as Championship timelines go.

[adambr2]

I think Pina's larger point is that Giannis isn't a complete player. He's amazing at the things he does well -- but the things that we'd had hoped would develop as he progressed -- the jump shot, the free throw shooting, they really haven't come along at all. In some cases, they've regressed.

 

Can he win a championship? Sure, if the supporting cast is good enough. He's just not at this point someone who looks like he can put a team on his shoulders to win a championship like Kawhi did in 19.

 

The free throw shooting is really a concern to me. Giannis used to be a 77% FT shooter. We could live with that. For whatever reason, he's now regressed in 5 consecutive seasons. Part of the foundation of our offense is Giannis penetrstong and scoring in the paint. He's always going to shoot a lot of free throws. If he's going 12 for 20 against the best teams in the NBA, that's going to make it tough.

[sveumrules]

No doubt, Giannis has areas of his game where he could still make large improvements.

 

Gotta be pretty scary for the rest of the league that the two time reigning MVP still has room to get even better.

[adambr2]

It's hard not to feel like the last 2 seasons were big opportunities missed where we were the alpha dogs in the East. Now we've kind of fallen back to the pack. It's not that we don't have a chance, the East is wide open, but it's no longer a question of who will finish #2 because the Bucks are going to run away with #1. Now we're kind of all in that same group with the Bucks, Heat, Sixers, Nets and Celtics and any one of those teams could win the East.

[HiAndTight]

Hate to say it but the question of whether Giannis is a good enough #1 to win a title is a bigger question for the Bucks than whether or not Middleton is a good enough #2.

 

What? Are you basing this on his "slow" start to the year? Help me understand your argument since he is coming off back to back MVPs and a DPOY award.

 

 

I think the only problem with Giannis is he's not a typical number 1. He's closer to a Shaq, but obviously so much differently.

 

I think we're fine now with Middleton and Jrue able to handle the ball in the final minutes.

[HiAndTight]

I think Pina's larger point is that Giannis isn't a complete player. He's amazing at the things he does well -- but the things that we'd had hoped would develop as he progressed -- the jump shot, the free throw shooting, they really haven't come along at all. In some cases, they've regressed.

 

Can he win a championship? Sure, if the supporting cast is good enough. He's just not at this point someone who looks like he can put a team on his shoulders to win a championship like Kawhi did in 19.

 

The free throw shooting is really a concern to me. Giannis used to be a 77% FT shooter. We could live with that. For whatever reason, he's now regressed in 5 consecutive seasons. Part of the foundation of our offense is Giannis penetrstong and scoring in the paint. He's always going to shoot a lot of free throws. If he's going 12 for 20 against the best teams in the NBA, that's going to make it tough.

 

 

I don't know BB technique beyond just being a fan having never played it. So maybe someone who's coached or played can explain why Giannis ever changed his shot?

 

Just a quick search I found this video;

 

Which sounds good...again, for someone who never really played or coached the sport. I've seen people talk about how he's wrecked his shooting motion, but if he was just the shooter he was as a rookie from 3, we'd be good.

 

This might be an area that's already been covered on here, but he looks so robotic shooting the 3 now. To think he finished his rookie year hitting 50 pct over his last 20 games and now with wide-open shots he regularly airballs them makes me think this guy might be right.

[CheezWizHed]

I can't speak as an authority, but I was always taught to shoot the ball in a smooth flow - bent knees, bent back, dribbling the ball prior to the shot. Then you slowly straighten your legs->back->arms to actually shoot the ball (hard to explain, but think of it as a "wave" going through your body and up and out your arms). Doing it that way helped me go from 50%/75% in game/practice situations to 75%/90+% - (high school ball)

 

Giannis makes me hurt every time he stands up (kind of a jarring motion - not smooth), then brings the ball up to shoot well after his legs/back are straight.

[RobDeer 45]

Fun game to watch last night, but I think the Nets will be tough to handle. We will see how things play out. Maybe adding Irvin to the mix will screw things up??

 

I agree on the complete player thing for Giannis. For the last year or so, I've thought if he could just learn a pull up jumper from about 5-10 feet out, he'd be pretty unstoppable. Most of the time they are bracing for him to attack the rim. I'm not sure he would be able to develop the touch for that. My other thought was just learning to play with his back to the basket. I know this type of game isn't as popular, but to me, I think he could create more shots that way. Those were my two thoughts on how he could counter teams from walling him off on his drives.

[nate82]

Fun game to watch last night, but I think the Nets will be tough to handle. We will see how things play out. Maybe adding Irvin to the mix will screw things up??

 

I agree on the complete player thing for Giannis. For the last year or so, I've thought if he could just learn a pull up jumper from about 5-10 feet out, he'd be pretty unstoppable. Most of the time they are bracing for him to attack the rim. I'm not sure he would be able to develop the touch for that. My other thought was just learning to play with his back to the basket. I know this type of game isn't as popular, but to me, I think he could create more shots that way. Those were my two thoughts on how he could counter teams from walling him off on his drives.

 

Kidd was a bad coach but he did have Giannis doing the back to the basket more. I believe Kidd even had Kevin Garnett come in and help Giannis and others with this.

[FVBrewerFan]

Shooting a basketball is like a golf swing, it's muscle memory. Try swinging the driver while thinking of eight different things, like I do, and see what happens. That's Giannis shooting.

 

He takes way too long at the line to think. Same thing wirh his 3 pt shot. He actually has a pretty smooth elbow jumper he should take more. He also sticks to one or two moves for weeks. Could be a spin, euro step, fadeaway baseline jumper, whatever. Instead of mixing it up througout every game.

 

All that aside, of course he's dominant much of the time. But right now, triple double Giannis helps this team win more than trying to score 40 Giannis.

[Baldkin]

I think Pina's larger point is that Giannis isn't a complete player. He's amazing at the things he does well -- but the things that we'd had hoped would develop as he progressed -- the jump shot, the free throw shooting, they really haven't come along at all. In some cases, they've regressed.

 

Can he win a championship? Sure, if the supporting cast is good enough. He's just not at this point someone who looks like he can put a team on his shoulders to win a championship like Kawhi did in 19.

 

The free throw shooting is really a concern to me. Giannis used to be a 77% FT shooter. We could live with that. For whatever reason, he's now regressed in 5 consecutive seasons. Part of the foundation of our offense is Giannis penetrstong and scoring in the paint. He's always going to shoot a lot of free throws. If he's going 12 for 20 against the best teams in the NBA, that's going to make it tough.

 

 

I don't know BB technique beyond just being a fan having never played it. So maybe someone who's coached or played can explain why Giannis ever changed his shot?

 

Just a quick search I found this video;

 

Which sounds good...again, for someone who never really played or coached the sport. I've seen people talk about how he's wrecked his shooting motion, but if he was just the shooter he was as a rookie from 3, we'd be good.

 

This might be an area that's already been covered on here, but he looks so robotic shooting the 3 now. To think he finished his rookie year hitting 50 pct over his last 20 games and now with wide-open shots he regularly airballs them makes me think this guy might be right.

 

60 lbs and 3" of growth changes everything you do.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

It's hard not to feel like the last 2 seasons were big opportunities missed where we were the alpha dogs in the East. Now we've kind of fallen back to the pack. It's not that we don't have a chance, the East is wide open, but it's no longer a question of who will finish #2 because the Bucks are going to run away with #1. Now we're kind of all in that same group with the Bucks, Heat, Sixers, Nets and Celtics and any one of those teams could win the East.

 

2019 was definitely a big missed opportunity. I'm more forgiving on last year.

[SeaBass]

It's hard not to feel like the last 2 seasons were big opportunities missed where we were the alpha dogs in the East. Now we've kind of fallen back to the pack. It's not that we don't have a chance, the East is wide open, but it's no longer a question of who will finish #2 because the Bucks are going to run away with #1. Now we're kind of all in that same group with the Bucks, Heat, Sixers, Nets and Celtics and any one of those teams could win the East.

 

2019 was definitely a big missed opportunity. I'm more forgiving on last year.

This is where I am as well. 2019 would have been a great time to seal the deal. Bud's first season and the league playing catch up. Now there's no surprises when it comes to the Bucks, the mystique is long gone. Does that mean they can't win? Of course not but it sure would have been sweet if they'd pulled it off year 1 and my feeling is they'd be more relaxed about it with that 1 championship under their belts, who knows what last season may have looked like. Didn't happen and we'll never know.

[Mr Southpaw]

GA charge , what the whatever. The Bucks will never win an NBA title because they are located in Milwaukee. NBA Refs are part of the corporation.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I'm officially a bit concerned about this team. Something isn't right. Maybe they gel later in the year. But I'm beginning to feel like this will just be a dud and there's a new coach next season.

[lcbj68c]

3....point....defense

[FVBrewerFan]

NBA champions have that quiet confidence, they know they're better. The Bucks still look like they're trying to prove they're great, but don't even believe that themselves.

[sveumrules]

After the loss to the Lakers tonight, 538 has the Bucks at Make Finals (26%) Win Finals (12%). Other East contenders are at...

 

Nets (MF 27% WF 13%)

Celtics (MF 20% WF 9%)

76ers (MF 15% WF 6%)

Heat (MF 4% WF 1%)

 

West is essentially Lakers (MF 41% WF 27%) in a class of their own then the Clippers (MF 24% WF 14%) in the 2-4 tier with the Bucks & Nets.

 

Assuming health this team's floor should be the ECF. For Bud to keep his job I think they need to at least make the Finals & be competitive once they get there.

[FVBrewerFan]

That's not their floor. Floor would be losing to the Heat or someone in the 1st round.

[adambr2]

We've made a lot of moves to get better, it's just hard and takes a lot of squinting to see how we're actually better.

 

Holiday is a nice player ...I'm just not sure he moves the needle from Bledsoe in any real measurable way like we thought he would, at least not for what we gave up. Especially not when you consider the loss of George Hill. He was a really important glue guy and he's missed. Ersan is missed.

 

I think the bench was a really important part of our regular season success and frankly, we just don't have a very good one anymore. We're honestly probably fortunate that the Bogdanovic deal fell through.

 

You'd hope that that weakness won't matter as much once the playoffs roll around and we have to lean on our starters more, but I don't know. Everyone around us in the East has closed the gap.

[Baldkin]

We've made a lot of moves to get better, it's just hard and takes a lot of squinting to see how we're actually better.

 

Holiday is a nice player ...I'm just not sure he moves the needle from Bledsoe in any real measurable way like we thought he would, at least not for what we gave up. Especially not when you consider the loss of George Hill. He was a really important glue guy and he's missed. Ersan is missed.

 

I think the bench was a really important part of our regular season success and frankly, we just don't have a very good one anymore. We're honestly probably fortunate that the Bogdanovic deal fell through.

 

You'd hope that that weakness won't matter as much once the playoffs roll around and we have to lean on our starters more, but I don't know. Everyone around us in the East has closed the gap.

 

Ersan barely played in the bubble last year and played a total of 0 meaningful minutes in the playoffs. He isn't missed at all.

[sveumrules]

In 2018-19 the Bucks SRS (8.05) & net rating (+8.5) were both best in the NBA. Same thing in 2019-20 with a 9.41 SRS & +9.5 net rating.

 

Through the first 14 games this season the Bucks were at 8.82 SRS & a +9.6 net rating, both of which were 2nd only to the Lakers, so on a macro level they have been comparable to to the last two seasons thus far, with the obvious caveats of it being a smaller sample & pretty considerable roster turnover.

 

Jrue has been a clear upgrade over Bledsoe to my eyes. Plays with way more control. Portis has looked good as a sixth man that can score in a variety of ways.

 

But yeah, don't really trust anyone outside of the top six guys in a playoff series. If they can stay healthy & find a backup point/wing via trade/buyout they have as good a chance to beat the Lakers as anyone.

[adambr2]

We've made a lot of moves to get better, it's just hard and takes a lot of squinting to see how we're actually better.

 

Holiday is a nice player ...I'm just not sure he moves the needle from Bledsoe in any real measurable way like we thought he would, at least not for what we gave up. Especially not when you consider the loss of George Hill. He was a really important glue guy and he's missed. Ersan is missed.

 

I think the bench was a really important part of our regular season success and frankly, we just don't have a very good one anymore. We're honestly probably fortunate that the Bogdanovic deal fell through.

 

You'd hope that that weakness won't matter as much once the playoffs roll around and we have to lean on our starters more, but I don't know. Everyone around us in the East has closed the gap.

 

Ersan barely played in the bubble last year and played a total of 0 meaningful minutes in the playoffs. He isn't missed at all.

 

Ersan didn't play much down the stretch because we acquired Marvin Williams, who also isn't here.. Regardless, how much he played in the playoffs isn't relevant to determining whether he's missed as we were not successful in the playoffs.

 

Ersan was not a bad guy to have on your bench. He was a useful niche player who was among the best in the game at taking a charge and could knock down 3s.

[sveumrules]

Looking closer at the numbers so far the only team that's really closed the gap in the East is probably Brooklyn, none of the other presumptive East contenders: Philly (2.84 SRS +3.4 net rating), Boston (0.54 SRS +0.5 net rating), Indy (1.27 SRS +2.0 net rating), Miami (-2.55 SRS -2.6 net rating) or Toronto (-0.35 SRS +0.4 net rating) have really come close to matching the Bucks performance this season.

[owbc]

Looking closer at the numbers so far the only team that's really closed the gap in the East is probably Brooklyn, none of the other presumptive East contenders: Philly (2.84 SRS +3.4 net rating), Boston (0.54 SRS +0.5 net rating), Indy (1.27 SRS +2.0 net rating), Miami (-2.55 SRS -2.6 net rating) or Toronto (-0.35 SRS +0.4 net rating) have really come close to matching the Bucks performance this season.

 

I'm supposed to be afraid of the 9-8 Nets who just lost two in a row to Cleveland? Because they acquired Harden, who caused nothing but trouble in Houston? Does anyone on Brooklyn play defense? I know they will get better, but I'll take the Bucks over that incoherent trifecta any day.

 

The only thing stopping the Bucks from reaching the finals is the Bucks. And particularly Giannis. We all knew the Bucks made downgrades that would cost them wins in the regular season. None of the bench guys that we got rid of made the tiniest bit of difference to the outcome in the playoffs when Bledsoe didn't show up and our opponents figured out how to limit the damage Giannis could cause. The Bucks have shown me enough already to know they will go deep in the playoffs, I'll sort-of pay attention as they cruise through the regular season and end up with a 1, 2, or 3 seed. It doesn't really matter to me which seed they get. At the end of the day they will get knocked out if Giannis can't be the difference in a 7-game series.

 

That said, the ceiling for anyone in the east in 2021 is to be a stepping block to LeBron's 5th championship.