Bucks 2020-2021 season thread

[reillymcshane]

I think Tucker is the kind of guy who does what's needed of him. So - as noted - his contributions aren't necessarily going to show up in the box score.

[nodakfan17]

Who would have thought a 36 year-old Chris Paul would be in a position to decline a $44 million option next year? He’s probably earned a 3yr/$100 million contract.

 

Also, LeBron is done. Yay.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I thought phoenix was cooked after game 3. Without AD the Lakers are just super average.

[nate82]

I thought phoenix was cooked after game 3. Without AD the Lakers are just super average.

 

The Lakers are not a good team if both LeBron and AD are not on the court. With just one of them on the court they are just a perpetual 6-8 seed.

[CheezWizHed]

[sarcasm]Hmmm... can we get Matthews back?[/sarcasm] He'd be a good DDV replacement.

 

LeBron never was the GOAT. He can't win without superstars around him. Jordan had Pippen, but I don't consider him quite the superstar...a good #2. Lebron needs other #1s around him.

[SeaBass]

LeBron complained real hard last year when Giannis won his 2nd MVP, lot's of LA fans cried that LeBron should have been MVP and all along I felt if anyone on the Lakers should be MVP it should be AD over LeBron. Doesn't this kind of prove that? I'm not sure the Lakers would have won this series if the injury had hit LeBron instead of AD but it would have been REALLY interesting to find out.

[homer]

[sarcasm]Hmmm... can we get Matthews back?[/sarcasm] He'd be a good DDV replacement.

 

LeBron never was the GOAT. He can't win without superstars around him. Jordan had Pippen, but I don't consider him quite the superstar...a good #2. Lebron needs other #1s around him.

 

Pippen was a top 50 player all time.

 

https://www.nba.com/history/nba-at-50/top-50-players

 

I agree that Jordan was better but he had help.

[Fear The Chorizo]

[sarcasm]Hmmm... can we get Matthews back?[/sarcasm] He'd be a good DDV replacement.

 

LeBron never was the GOAT. He can't win without superstars around him. Jordan had Pippen, but I don't consider him quite the superstar...a good #2. Lebron needs other #1s around him.

 

Pippen was a top 50 player all time.

 

https://www.nba.com/history/nba-at-50/top-50-players

 

I agree that Jordan was better but he had help.

 

Jordan didn't start winning titles until Pippen showed up as one of the top 10 players of his era and the team around him improved dramatically. Their second run of 3 titles also wouldn't have happened without prime Kukoc and Rodman on that roster, too.

 

Jordan is the GOAT, IMO, but he doesn't win anywhere close to 6 titles without Pippen and other great players.

[Baldkin]

LeBron complained real hard last year when Giannis won his 2nd MVP, lot's of LA fans cried that LeBron should have been MVP and all along I felt if anyone on the Lakers should be MVP it should be AD over LeBron. Doesn't this kind of prove that? I'm not sure the Lakers would have won this series if the injury had hit LeBron instead of AD but it would have been REALLY interesting to find out.

 

I mean, no?

7 years in New Orleans AD made it beyond the first round once.

Injured LeBron couldn't quite carry the Lakers past the #2 seed in the West.

[FVBrewerFan]

[sarcasm]Hmmm... can we get Matthews back?[/sarcasm] He'd be a good DDV replacement.

 

LeBron never was the GOAT. He can't win without superstars around him. Jordan had Pippen, but I don't consider him quite the superstar...a good #2. Lebron needs other #1s around him.

 

What superstar did LeBron have in Cleveland? Kyrie? Gimme a break. Really good player, but not the player Pippen was.

 

Besides, you can say that about any of the all-time great NBA players, especially in recent times. Nobody wins with a superstar and a bunch of crap around him.

 

Edit: I feel very uncomfortable defending LeBron.

[adambr2]

Scottie Pippen was definitely a superstar. It's just harder to be perceived as a great when you play your entire career with Michael Jordan.

[homer]

Scottie Pippen was definitely a superstar. It's just harder to be perceived as a great when you play your entire career with Michael Jordan.

 

 

Ahem!

[SeaBass]

LeBron complained real hard last year when Giannis won his 2nd MVP, lot's of LA fans cried that LeBron should have been MVP and all along I felt if anyone on the Lakers should be MVP it should be AD over LeBron. Doesn't this kind of prove that? I'm not sure the Lakers would have won this series if the injury had hit LeBron instead of AD but it would have been REALLY interesting to find out.

 

I mean, no?

7 years in New Orleans AD made it beyond the first round once.

Injured LeBron couldn't quite carry the Lakers past the #2 seed in the West.

And the LeBron Lakers didn't make the playoffs before AD showed up.

 

So both guys needed complimentary superstars to help carry the load.

[adambr2]

Scottie Pippen was definitely a superstar. It's just harder to be perceived as a great when you play your entire career with Michael Jordan.

 

 

Ahem!

 

Yeah, I should have added "almost."

[CheezWizHed]

Pippen also played with the Bulls when Jordan was playing BB. But he did nothing without Jordan.

 

I'm not demeaning Pippen, nor did I say Jordan did it all himself; Pippen plus Rodman or Kukoc, plus a misc 3pt shooter was generally the formula. But I don't see any of those guys a superstar. Superstars are the likes of Jordan, Magic, Bird, Koby, Shaq, Duncan, LBJ, Giannis, etc... more than just all-stars, but the elite. Pippen seems much more akin to Khris Middleton than a true superstar.

 

Not sure I have a strong opinion on Kyrie... Probably not a superstar, but at least as strong as Pippen. But a fair point overall about that one team. Its LBJ's tendency to run away as a FA and try to attract big names to play with him that taints his legacy, IMO (that and running off the court in playoff losses or making prime time shows to announce where he is going next).

[Fear The Chorizo]

Scottie Pippen scored almost 20K points and averaged 6.5 boards, 5.2 assists, 2 steals, and a block per game over his career. 7x allstar in a loaded eastern conference, all-NBA defensive team 8 straight seasons and NBA 1st team 3 seasons. Those accolades in that era make him a superstar.

 

Kris Middleton is a drastically different player in terms of his abilities, but from pure "star" standpoint he's nowhere close to Pippen.

 

In the seasons that Jordan took off between 3-peats, Pippen was an absolute superstar after emerging from his shadow and his overall stats jumped. However, Pippen was never going to be a high volume scorer - I actually would compare him to Giannis, as I think they have very similar games and think prime Pippen could readily average 25+ ppg in today's game that is much more transition-oriented. Those 93-95 Bulls teams were still really good, but they lacked the volume scorer on the wing or a dominant postman in the middle - two positions that teams who expected to win a title in that era needed to have. Also, the Jordan-less Bulls were robbed at a chance to beat the Rockets by a terrible officiating call in the conference semis against the Knicks that probably changed the outcome of that series. Saying Pippen did nothing without Jordan at that time isn't accurate.

 

As much as the NBA is about superstars and individual talent, winning a title still requires really good role players - the superstars will get you to the dance, but oftentimes it's how the rest of the team plays that determines who goes home with a ring.

[nodakfan17]

LeBron is like the aliens in Independence Day. He exhausts all of a team’s resources and then moves on to the next asset rich team.

[owbc]

The LeBron/Jordan comparisons drive me nuts. Completely different eras and scenarios. If I learned anything from watching the Last Dance it's that the Bulls were not any good until the right group of people were put around Jordan, and then they were so good that when Jordan retired they still made the EC finals anyway. Winning championships with 3 different teams/coaches is a completely different accomplishment from what the Bulls did.

 

The Lakers losing this year was no big surprise, LeBron knew they were toast and he looked completely exhausted/defeated. Whatever. The bigger crime is the garbage around Damian Lillard in Portland. If you want to know how far one player can get you, that's it. One of the greatest playoff performances of all-time in game 5 and they still lost.

 

Anyway...the NBA is full of superstars these days and even a "big 3" like the Nets have isn't good enough to cruise to a championship. We're about to witness them lose to the Bucks in six games, and I'll enjoy every second of it.

[homer]

Anyway...the NBA is full of superstars these days and even a "big 3" like the Nets have isn't good enough to cruise to a championship. We're about to witness them lose to the Bucks in six games, and I'll enjoy every second of it.

 

[adambr2]

I'm surprised that the Nets have emerged as the strong betting favorites in this series. I figured it was as close to a tossup as can be.

 

I'm not nearly as optimistic as owbc after the last two seasons, Jrue or no Jrue. I definitely think it's within the realm of possibility but am holding in "believe it when I see it" mode.

[FVBrewerFan]

LeBron is like the aliens in Independence Day. He exhausts all of a team’s resources and then moves on to the next asset rich team.

 

Haha, outstanding!

[CheezWizHed]

I certainly agree the eras are different - especially how defense is played. The man-only defense of Jordan's era did allow him to shine as his one-on-one skills were incredible. I shutter to think what Giannis would do if the "wall" was illegal.

 

Sorry, but you won't sell me on the Pippen superstar concept. Maybe my standards are just higher. Pippen just couldn't carry a team like a superstar does. He was a very good player; just not a superstar. When I compare him to Khris, I'm talking about their peaks. Khris took longer to get there and Pippen had a nice long career. But Khris' impact right now to the team is similar to Pippin's impact to the Bulls, IMO. Neither will carry the team to a championship.

[homer]

If Pippen isn't a superstar, then who on the Cavaliers was? Kyrie?

[CheezWizHed]

If Pippen isn't a superstar, then who on the Cavaliers was? Kyrie?

 

Not sure I have a strong opinion on Kyrie... Probably not a superstar, but at least as strong as Pippen. But a fair point overall about that one team. Its LBJ's tendency to run away as a FA and try to attract big names to play with him that taints his legacy, IMO (that and running off the court in playoff losses or making prime time shows to announce where he is going next).

[homer]

Lebron is not on Jordan's level. I agree that The Decision and move to LA hurts his legacy quite a bit. Only thing I disagree with is that Jordan won with less talent. I think where Pippen gets the shaft is on defense. He was an elite defender.