NFL HOF QBs

[HiAndTight]

Eventually? Roethlisberger will be a 400+ TD pass, minimum 2-time SB Champion 3x AFC champ, on one of the most storied teams in the league. He will get in immediately..

 

You don't think that his off-the-field issues will cause him problems in this regard?

 

I know it was posed to me but I help but stop and think, does the majority of people even know he had any off-field issues in his past? Other than a random tweet I run across with him, I don't know if I ever even see it mentioned.

 

 

I don't think the average person does, but the NFL voters certainly do. Either way, it doesn't seem to follow him.

[brewcrewdue80]

In regards to QBs entering the NFL today and succeeding, think about QB usage in colleges. Spread offenses everywhere, the amount of passing vs a grind it out running game. More reps in a NFL style offense will have you better prepared.

 

I do think the recent talented QBs that are stepping in has changed a perception of QBs overall in the NFL. Let's also give QB success today in WRs, defense restrictions against hitting WRs and the way you tackle. 100 catches in a season not to long ago was unheard of. Was Sharpe the first? or the 2nd?

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Lionel Taylor was the first with 100, but 100 was an achievement when Sharpe was playing and I think Sharpe still has the Packers record. Adams would decimate that if he'd stop getting hurt, but he might still get it this year anyway.

 

Sharpe not in the HOF is something of a joke to me though I know the longevity isn't there. He is clearly better than lots of WRs they've allowed in. And short careers haven't stopped other players from getting in.

[PeaveyFury]

Eventually? Roethlisberger will be a 400+ TD pass, minimum 2-time SB Champion 3x AFC champ, on one of the most storied teams in the league. He will get in immediately..

 

You don't think that his off-the-field issues will cause him problems in this regard?

 

I know it was posed to me but I help but stop and think, does the majority of people even know he had any off-field issues in his past? Other than a random tweet I run across with him, I don't know if I ever even see it mentioned.

 

Valid points, but to my original point, I think it keeps him out initially. There'll be enough voters who vote no on the first ballot based on that point alone, let alone his mediocre numbers.

[jerichoholicninja]

I guess it depends if you want to compare the current group of QB's to other QB's currently in the Hall of Fame or only to their peers. I think it should be only to their peers. In that case Brady, Rodgers, Ben, and Brees get in. The other guys that age don't. I don't think you can have that many guys playing the same position at the same time be Hall of Famer's without devaluing what exactly a Hall of Famer is.

[CheeseheadInQC]

Of the guys not yet eligible (or not until this year) in my opinion:

 

No doubt first ballot: Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees

 

In, but maybe not first ballot: Ben Roethlisberger, Phillip Rivers

 

Almost lock, but not enough longevity yet to put in the first two groups: Russell Wilson

 

Coin flip: Matt Ryan, Tony Romo

 

No: Eli Manning, Matt Stafford, Carson Palmer

 

Eli was an average at best quarterback that rode a great defense and a hot streak to two Super Bowl wins. Stafford is overrated by his counting stats.

 

Ryan and Romo fall into the category where they are worse than basically everyone in the Hall, but, setting aside the Ken Anderson debate, better than the top group left out of the Hall (Dave Krieg, Boomer Esiason, Craig Morton, Mark Brunell, John Brodie, Phil Simms, etc.)

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Eli was a "big game" QB and one that played in New York which goes far with HOF voters. His statistical resume is completely meh but he's tied to some of the most iconic games of the last 20 years.

 

Random stuff like "he got it done in the clutch!!" always has more pull than it should with this sort of thing.

 

I'll be very surprised if Eli isn't voted in and fairly quickly.

[PeaveyFury]

I really can't believe we're in a world where Phillip Rivers is a HOF QB. I know it looks like it'll head that way, but I still can't come to grips with that.

[HiAndTight]

In regards to QBs entering the NFL today and succeeding, think about QB usage in colleges. Spread offenses everywhere, the amount of passing vs a grind it out running game. More reps in a NFL style offense will have you better prepared.

 

I do think the recent talented QBs that are stepping in has changed a perception of QBs overall in the NFL. Let's also give QB success today in WRs, defense restrictions against hitting WRs and the way you tackle. 100 catches in a season not to long ago was unheard of. Was Sharpe the first? or the 2nd?

 

 

Is anyone denying that the vastly different rules that are in place almost exclusively to protect the QB's and encourage more points is helping QB's?

 

It's a huge fact and I think that was the point when people were bringing up what QB's who played in the past would do in today's NFL. But I don't think Patrick Mahomes or Aaron Rodgers would fail in any era.

 

And the young guys coming in now, many of them are able to use their legs to help their team move the ball until they can develop other parts of their game.

[HiAndTight]

Lionel Taylor was the first with 100, but 100 was an achievement when Sharpe was playing and I think Sharpe still has the Packers record. Adams would decimate that if he'd stop getting hurt, but he might still get it this year anyway.

 

Sharpe not in the HOF is something of a joke to me though I know the longevity isn't there. He is clearly better than lots of WRs they've allowed in. And short careers haven't stopped other players from getting in.

 

 

Sharpe should be in, Butler should get stronger consideration and Isabel if we're going back that far.

 

But since Kramer got in, Sharpe's clearly the most deserving Packer not yet in.

[HiAndTight]

I really can't believe we're in a world where Phillip Rivers is a HOF QB. I know it looks like it'll head that way, but I still can't come to grips with that.

 

 

I just don't think the NFL HOF is that important. It's not like Baseball where you get accurately evaluate guys across different positions or at least try to. How do you compare a DL like Rosey Grier in the pre-sack ERA to a QB playing in an era in which a literal bump on the head will get you flagged for 15 yards? So they let all the QB's in.

[nodakfan17]

I really can't believe we're in a world where Phillip Rivers is a HOF QB. I know it looks like it'll head that way, but I still can't come to grips with that.

He’s 8th all-time in the only counting stat that matters - wins (131). He also has started 233 consecutive games dating back to 2006, including 200+ starts with the same franchise. In his spare time, he has sired 9 children. If he doesn’t get in, he should be the standard against which future borderline HOFers are judged. I think he gets in eventually.

[sveumrules]

Yeah, Rivers is probably the guy right on the line for me in terms of worst guy in/best guy out.

 

Obviously it's a team game, but the QB has the most outsized impact on the end result. The fact Rivers only made it to one AFC Championship game in 14 years would have me leaning best guy out.

 

Being stuck in the same conference with Brady, Peyton & Big Ben, Rivers is kinda like the 80s Bucks of QBs. Really good, but not quite 80s Celtics, 76ers or Pistons.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Being 8th all time in passing at this point is like saying you're 8th of the last 10 years. I'm exaggerating but the passing stats are getting pretty useless as a means comparing generations.

 

I remember Favre hitting 420 and thinking it would be this crazy unbreakable number. LOL.

[CheeseheadInQC]

Yeah, Rivers is probably the guy right on the line for me in terms of worst guy in/best guy out.

 

Obviously it's a team game, but the QB has the most outsized impact on the end result. The fact Rivers only made it to one AFC Championship game in 14 years would have me leaning best guy out.

 

Being stuck in the same conference with Brady, Peyton & Big Ben, Rivers is kinda like the 80s Bucks of QBs. Really good, but not quite 80s Celtics, 76ers or Pistons.

That is one more championship game start than Sonny Jurgensen and the same number as Dan Fouts. It is really difficult to make even an era-adjusted stats case against Rivers that doesn’t go against precedence when it comes to HOF QBs. He doesn’t have the mystique because he is a contemporary of three of the best to play the position plus another possibly in the top 10, but his play is consistent with a mid-to-lower level HOF QB.

[PeaveyFury]

I really can't believe we're in a world where Phillip Rivers is a HOF QB. I know it looks like it'll head that way, but I still can't come to grips with that.

 

 

I just don't think the NFL HOF is that important.

 

Well, I don't think that's fair. Granted, I don't understand what they did last summer in letting a bunch of random guys in. But beyond that, I think their choices are usually fairly logical.

[MrTPlush]

Something is seriously wrong when almost half the NFL is being talked about as future HOFers at QB.

 

That’s like saying there are 10 future or likely HOF catchers in MLB right now.

 

That’s watering it down.

[CheeseheadInQC]

Something is seriously wrong when almost half the NFL is being talked about as future HOFers at QB.

 

That’s like saying there are 10 future or likely HOF catchers in MLB right now.

 

That’s watering it down.

 

A big part of it is guys are playing longer. Prior to this group I believe there were two Hall of Fame QBs who started into their 40s, Moon and Favre. There are two in their 40s right now, plus likely ones at 39, 38 and 37. The older group really skews things. This situation is kind of like the late 90s, when you had the great QBs that started in the first half of the 80s (Marino, Elway, Kelly, Moon, Young) ending their careers and Manning and Warner starting the next wave. Much like then, though, there isn't much in between. Between the Class of 83 and Manning, I believe only two Hall of Fame QBs were drafted (Aikman and Favre). Right now you have one likely one older than 25 and younger than 35 (Wilson).

[HiAndTight]

Yeah, Rivers is probably the guy right on the line for me in terms of worst guy in/best guy out.

 

Obviously it's a team game, but the QB has the most outsized impact on the end result. The fact Rivers only made it to one AFC Championship game in 14 years would have me leaning best guy out.

 

Being stuck in the same conference with Brady, Peyton & Big Ben, Rivers is kinda like the 80s Bucks of QBs. Really good, but not quite 80s Celtics, 76ers or Pistons.

 

 

That's kinda true, but he's also had some extremely talented teams to work with and the Chargers notoriously underperformed.

Well, I don't think that's fair. Granted, I don't understand what they did last summer in letting a bunch of random guys in. But beyond that, I think their choices are usually fairly logical.

 

 

Well it's not "fair," but does anyone think David Bakhtiari is close to being a HOF'er at the moment? Or Neil Smith?

 

But I'd be shocked if at least 10 QB's active right now don't make it to the HOF and I would bet the over on that. The fact that most of us agree Eli Manning will be in the HOF(or Rivers for that matter) just shows how skewed it is. It's just not an accurate representation of the best players of all time.

[nodakfan17]

I know there has been ‘inflation’ to QB numbers, but I also think that the early 2000s produced an unusual high number of great QBs (Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Rivers, and Eli Manning). From 2006 to 2016, there will likely only be one HOF QB drafted in that span (Wilson).

[adambr2]

I know there has been ‘inflation’ to QB numbers, but I also think that the early 2000s produced an unusual high number of great QBs (Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Rivers, and Eli Manning). From 2006 to 2016, there will likely only be one HOF QB drafted in that span (Wilson).

 

Holy smokes, that 2013 QB draft class

...

 

EJ Manuel, Geno Smith, Mike Glennon, Matt Barkley...these are the GOOD ones.

[PeaveyFury]

I know there has been ‘inflation’ to QB numbers, but I also think that the early 2000s produced an unusual high number of great QBs (Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Rivers, and Eli Manning). From 2006 to 2016, there will likely only be one HOF QB drafted in that span (Wilson).

 

Part of the 'issue' is that once every 20 years or so, the NFL seems to have a single draft that puts 3-4 NFL HOF- caliber QBs into the league. 1983 with Elway/Marino/Kelly, 2004 with Manning/Roethlisberger/Rivers.

 

The difference is that in following 1983, those guys played for like 12-15 years. Now, as someone else alluded to, the life of a QB extends closer to 15-20, which really skews that stat leader boards.

[homer]

You want to know how much the QB position has changed? Check out HOF QB and Suzy Kolber admirer Joe Namath's stats.

[nodakfan17]

You want to know how much the QB position has changed? Check out HOF QB and Suzy Kolber admirer Joe Namath's stats.

A cursory review shows he was once MVP of the AFL with 15 TD passes and 17 interceptions.

[CheeseheadInQC]

To be fair, there is zero statistical justification for Namath being in the Hall of Fame. Even for his era, he wasn’t in the same zip code as the top guys. Namath is in because of his influence on NFL history more than his play.