Lorenzo Cain

[wibadgers23]

I’m not hoping and praying for a Cain trade, but if we really want to get nuts and shed salary, then Cain would be an obvious candidate. Is there a team out there that needs a CF that could also absorb his salary? We’re opening a hole in CF but then we have that much more money to spend on corner IF spots or a starting pitcher. Thoughts?

[ThisIsMyCrew]

Production aside. The 2020 team definetly lacked the “swagger” the previous years had. Cain is a major part in team culture/chemistry. Him, Suter, Pina all fit in that. So you’re not just losing a productive player, you’d be losing a respected clubhouse leader.

[PeaveyFury]

As I wanted to trade him a year ago, I'd obviously still be on board. Losing his salary would give them a lot of additional flexibility. But, as we CLEARLY saw last year, not everyone can play CF, and few can as well as Cain. I'm terrified of a defensive drop off with age that corresponds with his bat already trending downward.

[pacopete4]

I would welcome the trade. I have thoroughly enjoyed watching Cain roam CF but with his salary and likely drop-off, it just makes a lot of sense for the Brewers. The problem is, what contending team needs a CF that has the money to spend?

[Lathund]

The underlying numbers in 2019 for Cain were still good, he looked good in pre-season and the short time he had in 2020. I think he has a lot to offer still, and I don't really think freeing up that money is worth the trade-off. He'll be a good player still in 2021 the way I see it, and finding a good CF is very hard to do.

[DR28]

I would welcome the trade. I have thoroughly enjoyed watching Cain roam CF but with his salary and likely drop-off, it just makes a lot of sense for the Brewers. The problem is, what contending team needs a CF that has the money to spend?

 

Blue Jays

Mets

[TURBO]

Who would we replace him with?

 

I'm on board, but it seems we already gave our replacement away to SD last off season.

[MrTPlush]

Yah...good luck finding a team willing to trade for a 35 year old CFer, whose value largely comes from defense, costs $17mil, and is coming off a poor 2019 and/or 2020 vacation.

 

If a team was willing to give us salary relief I doubt it is turned into something very useful. I doubt they would go drop $15mil per year on a major free agent in return. Most of it would probably go to reducing payroll.

[Roderick]

I don't see giving away as much as they will have to (if you aren't eating salary, which is the point), just to trade Cain that it would be worthwhile.

 

But if some deep pockets contender gets a CF injury in spring training, my ears would perk up.....

[Jopal78]

Look around the league, when Kyle Schwarber is cut loose over 8 million dollars, and Eddie Rosario is cut loose over ten million dollars, does Cain, even as a defensive wiz, have any trade value at 17 million?

 

Of course not. His contract is dead weight on the payroll at this point, so you may as well pray that the extended time off from opting out saved some wear and tear on his body allowing him to play at a high level.

[LincolnDD]

I think it would either have to be a bad contract swap, or they'd have to sacrifice a prospect or two to sweeten the deal, like the Angels/Giants Cozart deal last off-season.

 

Agree with BestInTheWorld on Jays and Mets.

 

Swap for Grichuk? Looks like he's got about $31m owed over the next three seasons, per Baseball Reference. An extra year commitment, but the money is spread out, so more flexibility in 2021, and overall savings about $4m.

 

With Cano suspended, most of the Mets' ugly money is tied up in mediocre relievers (Familia, Betances), and looks like they were on the fence about tendering Matz. Maybe Betances and Matz (~$11m next year, both FAs after the season) for Cain and Lauer?

[monty57]

Look around the league, when Kyle Schwarber is cut loose over 8 million dollars, and Eddie Rosario is cut loose over ten million dollars, does Cain, even as a defensive wiz, have any trade value at 17 million?

 

Of course not. His contract is dead weight on the payroll at this point, so you may as well pray that the extended time off from opting out saved some wear and tear on his body allowing him to play at a high level.

 

Agree. Even in a normal year, Cain would probably have negative value with his contract, but this year is even worse.

 

Let's hope a well-rested Cain can post a .400 OBP while playing Gold Glove defense.

[Outlander]

The best bet to trade him right now is a good first half of 2021 and trading him to a contender that needs a CF and veteran leadership.

[3and2Fastball]

Cleveland has historically made bad decisions re outfielders and always seem to be looking for them, perhaps they can be swindled.

[rob42081]

Maybe you use Hader to get out of Cains contract. Use Haders A/A player/contract and Cains B-/D- player/contract to get a few mlb players and prospects to spread the salary around a bit... Which would make the Mets a perfect fit with the new ownership.. Matz, Betancces W/ Batty or Vientos,Scupacki and I Greene

[brewcrewdue80]

There's no point in moving Cain. Your only looking at saving money. Team isnt going to take that money saved and apply it to another contract. Should expect a great season coming for him. Should easily be as healthy as he's ever been. What CF is out there that you want roaming CF in his place? Tyrone Taylor? A decent Batting Cain season with his defense makes him one of the best CF in the game.

[rob42081]

Exactly.. The idea is to spread payroll around more. The franchise lost 2.5+/- million people attending games and spending money and 100+games of tv advertising revenue. I'm sure ownership would be stoked to get closer to 60 mil in payroll. Even if we get a full season with full attendance the franchise will be taking a huge L over the 2 seasons. I'm 99% sure there is interior regret or at least concern in extending Yelich at this point

[JohnBriggs12]

There's no point in moving Cain. Your only looking at saving money. Team isnt going to take that money saved and apply it to another contract. Should expect a great season coming for him. Should easily be as healthy as he's ever been. What CF is out there that you want roaming CF in his place? Tyrone Taylor? A decent Batting Cain season with his defense makes him one of the best CF in the game.

 

I think you are overlooking the fact that he'll be 35 in April and essentially hasn't played since the end of 2019 when he wasn't very good. It's a big stretch to think he returns close to his 2018 form. Sure he had a lot of minor aches and pains in 2019, but what guarantee is there that he won't incur those same kind of aches and pains at 35? Cain is one of many huge question marks on this team.

[wntrtxn21]

There's no point in moving Cain. Your only looking at saving money. Team isnt going to take that money saved and apply it to another contract. Should expect a great season coming for him. Should easily be as healthy as he's ever been. What CF is out there that you want roaming CF in his place? Tyrone Taylor? A decent Batting Cain season with his defense makes him one of the best CF in the game.

 

I think you are overlooking the fact that he'll be 35 in April and essentially hasn't played since the end of 2019 when he wasn't very good. It's a big stretch to think he returns close to his 2018 form. Sure he had a lot of minor aches and pains in 2019, but what guarantee is there that he won't incur those same kind of aches and pains at 35? Cain is one of many huge question marks on this team.

 

Cains 2019 numbers would have been 2nd best on the entire team in 2020.

[pacopete4]

We gotta stop using 2020 numbers for any past or future comps.

[Soupbone]

Second to Arcia? We know that's not a great thing.

[sveumrules]

Entering 2020 Cain was projected for a 92 OPS+, I'd imagine that will fall slightly just on account of getting a year older. Looking back on recent seasons for CF with plus defense & offense in that neighborhood I found...

 

2019 Victor Robles | 91 wRC+ | +8.5 DEF | 2.5 WAR

2018 Ender Inciarte | 90 wRC+ | +9.5 DEF | 3.0 WAR

2018 Jackie Bradley Jr | 90 wRC+ | +10.1 DEF | 2.8 WAR

2017 Byron Buxton | 92 wRC+ | +12.0 DEF | 3.6 WAR

2017 Kevin Pillar | 86 wRC+ | +7.7 DEF | 2.0 WAR

2017 Manuel Margot | 90 wRC+ | +7.8 DEF | 1.9 WAR

2016 Leonys Martin | 89 wRC+ | +6.4 DEF | 2.4 WAR

 

...if Cain is healthy for 2021, I'd imagine his season ends up looking something like those.

[3and2Fastball]

I wonder if Mark can be convinced to do a Cain plus money trade for a real prospect?

[TURBO]

I wonder if Mark can be convinced to do a Cain plus money trade for a real prospect?

 

I wonder if another team can be convinced to do a Cain plus money for a REAL prospect?

[brewcrewdue80]

There's no point in moving Cain. Your only looking at saving money. Team isnt going to take that money saved and apply it to another contract. Should expect a great season coming for him. Should easily be as healthy as he's ever been. What CF is out there that you want roaming CF in his place? Tyrone Taylor? A decent Batting Cain season with his defense makes him one of the best CF in the game.

 

I think you are overlooking the fact that he'll be 35 in April and essentially hasn't played since the end of 2019 when he wasn't very good. It's a big stretch to think he returns close to his 2018 form. Sure he had a lot of minor aches and pains in 2019, but what guarantee is there that he won't incur those same kind of aches and pains at 35? Cain is one of many huge question marks on this team.

Winning a GG means you're no good? At least when you are deserving.

 

Let's check statcast:

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/lorenzo-cain-456715?stats=statcast-r-hitting-mlb

 

Seems his years in 2018 and 2019 were fairly identical. His expected batting average as you see is top 10 zone. Was he unlucky? I notice the one big decline was his speed. Should he have beat out more inf grounders? I do recall he had his share of nicks and bruises with that stellar OF Defense, that must have affected his speed down 1b line.

2020 off to a great statcast start. I don't get why more players arent looked at via this statcast site. If you're just not familiar with it, explore.