Knebel Traded to the Dodgers for PTBNL [LHP Leo Crawford]

[Jopal78]

I guess that goes to show you the depth of the Dodger system. Here's a pitcher who was an organizational filler in the Dodger system, and comes over to the Brewers and fans describe him as "promising" "a very nice pickup" and "a rotation piece".

 

Come on, the best organization in the league at talent evaluation just sent him over to the Brewers in a minor trade for them. If he ultimately makes the major leagues at all for Milwaukee, we should be happy.

[CheezWizHed]

I guess that goes to show you the depth of the Dodger system. Here's a pitcher who was an organizational filler in the Dodger system, and comes over to the Brewers and fans describe him as "promising" "a very nice pickup" and "a rotation piece".

 

Come on, the best organization in the league at talent evaluation just sent him over to the Brewers in a minor trade for them. If he ultimately makes the major leagues at all for Milwaukee, we should be happy.

 

I'm thinking this is more about the expectations people had (i.e. very low) on the type of player coming back and are happier than expected. Not that everyone thought we had a future All-Star pitcher robbed from LAD. I think comparisons to Mike Fiers, Zac Davies, or even Suter are somewhat apt - non-heralded players that seem to get results.

 

Its better than just non-tendering Knebel.

[umphrey]

Haha he's nothing special but he's better than I was expecting. The Dodgers sent him over because he's not a high upside guy. They are all about upside and FA.

[Jopal78]

I guess that goes to show you the depth of the Dodger system. Here's a pitcher who was an organizational filler in the Dodger system, and comes over to the Brewers and fans describe him as "promising" "a very nice pickup" and "a rotation piece".

 

Come on, the best organization in the league at talent evaluation just sent him over to the Brewers in a minor trade for them. If he ultimately makes the major leagues at all for Milwaukee, we should be happy.

 

I'm thinking this is more about the expectations people had (i.e. very low) on the type of player coming back and are happier than expected. Not that everyone thought we had a future All-Star pitcher robbed from LAD. I think comparisons to Mike Fiers, Zac Davies, or even Suter are somewhat apt - non-heralded players that seem to get results.

 

Its better than just non-tendering Knebel.

 

Yeah, a baseball player is better than getting nothing in return. However, let's be honest, this is the definition of "just a guy".

[homer]

I guess that goes to show you the depth of the Dodger system. Here's a pitcher who was an organizational filler in the Dodger system, and comes over to the Brewers and fans describe him as "promising" "a very nice pickup" and "a rotation piece".

 

Come on, the best organization in the league at talent evaluation just sent him over to the Brewers in a minor trade for them. If he ultimately makes the major leagues at all for Milwaukee, we should be happy.

 

I'm thinking this is more about the expectations people had (i.e. very low) on the type of player coming back and are happier than expected. Not that everyone thought we had a future All-Star pitcher robbed from LAD. I think comparisons to Mike Fiers, Zac Davies, or even Suter are somewhat apt - non-heralded players that seem to get results.

 

Its better than just non-tendering Knebel.

 

Yeah his stats are better than what I would have anticipated. Not a big deal.

[Outlander]

Besides being a bit closed in his stance (right foot closer to 1st base than his left foot on the rubber), I didn't see anything too "funky" about his delivery. Which is a good thing as hitches and things like that tend to be learned and/or hard to maintain mechanics for the pitcher.

 

Also odd that he wasn't available for the Rule 5 draft, yet, it came immediately afterwards. I wonder if the Brewers would've taken someone else if deGeus had fallen to them (or a handshake agreement with the Dodgers for cash if they took deGeus).

 

Edit - maybe I should've watched a bit more before commenting. He does vary his timing, some motion, and his leg-kick during his delivery. A couple that I saw seemed like borderline balks.

I don't see how he wouldn't have been eligible for the rule 5 draft. It appears the Brewers just wanted to make sure nobody picked him up in the draft.

[pacopete4]

Current Brewers Starter Career Minor League Stats:

Games Started- 114 / IP- 573 / WHIP- 1.332 / H9- 9.0 / HR9- .6 / BB9- 3.0 / K9- 8.1

 

Leo Crawford Career Minor League Stats:

Games Started- 88 / IP- 503 / WHIP- 1.207 / H9- 8.6 / HR9- .6 / BB9- 2.0 / K9- 8.3

[Jopal78]

Current Brewers Starter Career Minor League Stats:

Games Started- 114 / IP- 573 / WHIP- 1.332 / H9- 9.0 / HR9- .6 / BB9- 3.0 / K9- 8.1

 

Leo Crawford Career Minor League Stats:

Games Started- 88 / IP- 503 / WHIP- 1.207 / H9- 8.6 / HR9- .6 / BB9- 2.0 / K9- 8.3

 

 

Stop the Presses!! By your example above, the Brewers just picked up the next CC Sabathia! Look at CC's minors numbers:

 

54/ IP-257 / WHIP 1.286 / H9 7.3 / BB9 4.3 / K9 10.3

 

Somebody pencil Crawford in for opening day... give me a break. It's fine and dandy that the Dodgers gave a player in return to get Knebel, and I get that we're all a little Brewers news starved. But the best front office in the game was willing to move on from this guy because he has fringe major league velocity and a small frame that won't allow him to add more velocity. Again fine and great, as the news is welcome but lets be realistic here.

[CheezWizHed]

I don't see how he wouldn't have been eligible for the rule 5 draft. It appears the Brewers just wanted to make sure nobody picked him up in the draft.

 

Maybe he was. I just glanced at someone's list of eligible Dodgers and didn't see him on it.

[CheezWizHed]

Somebody pencil Crawford in for opening day... give me a break. It's fine and dandy that the Dodgers gave a player in return to get Knebel, and I get that we're all a little Brewers news starved. But the best front office in the game was willing to move on from this guy because he has fringe major league velocity and a small frame that won't allow him to add more velocity. Again fine and great, as the news is welcome but lets be realistic here.

 

Certainly starved for things to talk about and possible cabin fever setting in on this umpteenth month of COVID-enhanced 2020, so what is the hearburn? No-one is crowning him as a TOR.

 

Yes, hundreds of players like him flame out. Others go on to be Mike Fiers or Brent Suter. Low measurables, but good numbers. A starter pitching at AAA level is more than I expected. I figured to get an A ball flier. He has a low ceiling, but decent chance at a nice MLB impact, too.

[homer]

Current Brewers Starter Career Minor League Stats:

Games Started- 114 / IP- 573 / WHIP- 1.332 / H9- 9.0 / HR9- .6 / BB9- 3.0 / K9- 8.1

 

Leo Crawford Career Minor League Stats:

Games Started- 88 / IP- 503 / WHIP- 1.207 / H9- 8.6 / HR9- .6 / BB9- 2.0 / K9- 8.3

 

 

Stop the Presses!! By your example above, the Brewers just picked up the next CC Sabathia! Look at CC's minors numbers:

 

54/ IP-257 / WHIP 1.286 / H9 7.3 / BB9 4.3 / K9 10.3

 

Somebody pencil Crawford in for opening day... give me a break. It's fine and dandy that the Dodgers gave a player in return to get Knebel, and I get that we're all a little Brewers news starved. But the best front office in the game was willing to move on from this guy because he has fringe major league velocity and a small frame that won't allow him to add more velocity. Again fine and great, as the news is welcome but lets be realistic here.

 

 

Let's reel in that condescension, please.

[yoshii8]

I like it, didn't expect anything for Knebel to be honest, and he could end up being a MLB player.

[StearnsFTW]

Current Brewers Starter Career Minor League Stats:

Games Started- 114 / IP- 573 / WHIP- 1.332 / H9- 9.0 / HR9- .6 / BB9- 3.0 / K9- 8.1

 

Leo Crawford Career Minor League Stats:

Games Started- 88 / IP- 503 / WHIP- 1.207 / H9- 8.6 / HR9- .6 / BB9- 2.0 / K9- 8.3

 

 

Stop the Presses!! By your example above, the Brewers just picked up the next CC Sabathia! Look at CC's minors numbers:

 

54/ IP-257 / WHIP 1.286 / H9 7.3 / BB9 4.3 / K9 10.3

 

Somebody pencil Crawford in for opening day... give me a break. It's fine and dandy that the Dodgers gave a player in return to get Knebel, and I get that we're all a little Brewers news starved. But the best front office in the game was willing to move on from this guy because he has fringe major league velocity and a small frame that won't allow him to add more velocity. Again fine and great, as the news is welcome but lets be realistic here.

 

This is the strawiest strawman I've ever seen.

[PeaveyFury]

Somebody pencil Crawford in for opening day... give me a break.

 

I really don't get the frustration here, or why the reason for that tone. The Brewers got something for a guy they were reportedly 10 minutes away from non-tendering and getting nothing. Yep, he's likely to amount to little, like most minor leaguers. Still, I think the assumption was a lottery ticket-type low minor league guy, and this does appear to be a bit more then that.

[Jopal78]

Somebody pencil Crawford in for opening day... give me a break.

 

I really don't get the frustration here, or why the reason for that tone. The Brewers got something for a guy they were reportedly 10 minutes away from non-tendering and getting nothing. Yep, he's likely to amount to little, like most minor leaguers. Still, I think the assumption was a lottery ticket-type low minor league guy, and this does appear to be a bit more then that.

 

I guess that's where we disagree, what suggests that he's "a bit more than a lottery ticket"? I guess I'm trying to wrap my mind around that opinion statement.

 

What's the basis for that opinion? A-ball numbers? If we're having an intelligent discussion how is someone going to say "we got a bit more than a lottery ticket" based on A-ball numbers? Wayne Franklin was awesome in A, AA too and we know how that turned out. Like I said earlier its all fine and dandy, at least there is Brewers news, but lets call it like it is instead of running the guy through the magic Brewer fan filter where he's suddenly a key prospect in the organization.

[pacopete4]

The post comparing him to Brewers current starter was just to show that the guy has performed at the minor league level. We may never see the guy in a Brewers uniform but why ignore his production as if it is nothing? Makes very little sense.

[stoutdude04]

"but lets call it like it is instead of running the guy through the magic Brewer fan filter where he's suddenly a key prospect in the organization."

 

I'd say the majority(all?) of people don't think this, yet you keep bringing it up.

[homer]

Wayne Franklin was 25 when he first hit AA.

[PeaveyFury]

I guess that's where we disagree, what suggests that he's "a bit more than a lottery ticket"? I guess I'm trying to wrap my mind around that opinion statement.

 

Because I didn't say that? I said a lottery ticket from the low minor leagues. As he's been in AA/AAA, the actual return is indeed a bit better than a lottery ticket from the low-level minors.

[Jopal78]

The post comparing him to Brewers current starter was just to show that the guy has performed at the minor league level. We may never see the guy in a Brewers uniform but why ignore his production as if it is nothing? Makes very little sense.

 

Because they literally means next to nothing. He's got 30 innings above A ball and I've read several posts stating, "very nice pick up" "did we just get a rotation piece" "a bit more than a lottery ticket" if these aren't just pie in the sky platitudes I don't know what is.

[Jopal78]

I guess that's where we disagree, what suggests that he's "a bit more than a lottery ticket"? I guess I'm trying to wrap my mind around that opinion statement.

 

Because I didn't say that? I said a lottery ticket from the low minor leagues. As he's been in AA/AAA, the actual return is indeed a bit better than a lottery ticket from the low-level minors.

 

Seriously, look up the stats and read your posts. I'm not going to cut and paste here. Plus that AAA experience you speak of consists of 1/3 of an inning where he walked three batters and gave up a (walk off) grand slam.

[CheeseheadInQC]

Yeah, a baseball player is better than getting nothing in return. However, let's be honest, this is the definition of "just a guy".

There's a decent gap between top 20 prospect and pure org arm, and he seems to fit in there nicely, somewhere between mildly and moderately intriguing depending on if you focus on the positive (the Brewers have gotten some play out of this type of profile in the past and are comfortable working with it) or the negative (this might be basically a one-year look given that I think he is eligible for minor league free agency next year if he isn't added to the 40-man). Given the circumstances, a guy like Guillermo Zuniga was probably the best-case scenario. I don't know that the value difference between the two is significant enough to not be somewhat pleased.

[PeaveyFury]

Seriously, look up the stats and read your posts.

 

Here's a direct quote:

 

Still, I think the assumption was a lottery ticket-type low minor league guy, and this does appear to be a bit more then that.

 

Not sure how there can be continued confusion. He spent the last 1/3 of the season at AA, and certainly would have done the same in 2020 with possible advancement to AAA. When the 2021 minor league season starts, he'll start at AA or AAA. Not a low minor league guy.

[Simba2020]

Everyone was thrilled with the return for David Phelps. I think those guys are true wild cards. Crawford may end up better or worse than all three of those players but he is less of a wild card while probably also offering less of a ceiling. Either way, I would consider Crawford the more valuable prospect.

[Jopal78]

Seriously, look up the stats and read your posts.

 

Here's a direct quote:

 

Still, I think the assumption was a lottery ticket-type low minor league guy, and this does appear to be a bit more then that.

 

Not sure how there can be continued confusion. He spent the last 1/3 of the season at AA, and certainly would have done the same in 2020 with possible advancement to AAA. When the 2021 minor league season starts, he'll start at AA or AAA. Not a low minor league guy.

 

Understood. In your purview 30 innings above A ball makes someone "a bit more than a lottery-ticket low minor league guy". Those are some big logical assumptions that in a system loaded with talent he would have made those jumps. In the more barren Brewers system they probably will start him at AA, maybe even AAA depending on who comes into the organization and leaves between now and when that is decided.

 

The facts remain:

The Dodgers are the best NL team at talent evaluation.

It is unusual for the Dodgers to trade away useful prospect capital in a minor trade.

The Dodgers traded Crawford to the Brewers.