Knebel Traded to the Dodgers for PTBNL [LHP Leo Crawford]

[HiAndTight]

 

Or the 16 1/3 IP after they gave him a break to re-group(Which is what everyone understood it was at the time) and he came back and struck out 33 while allowing 5H and 3BB. Even in this 2018 in which he struggled SO badly he was sent down, he had an XFIP of 2.40

 

I also see more people chastising those who claim we lost the trade than those who actually said we lost the trade.

 

What year are the bolded numbers referencing?

 

His numbers after they sent him down to the minors.

[HiAndTight]

Coming back after he gave up 2 runs wouldn't have been much of a told ya so given his entire argument was you can't look at his results based on 3.1 IP...which I don't think was ever the basis for the complaints we'd basically given Knebel away.

 

Go back about 3 pages in this thread and you'll see that it absolutely was.

 

In summary, I prefer 'hot take accountability' than 'I told you so', but I guess it's fair to call a spade a spade. When you formulate a conclusion like 'Knebel is back to his dominant old self, how could we just give him away' after 4 innings, it's very likely that's going to look like a bad conclusion at some point. The argument was further laid out as to why in Knebel's case it was even MORE likely that it would end up looking like a bad conclusion. But, and as shown over the past few days, I've also discovered that when people are held accountable for using faulty logic to come to a bad conclusion, they really don't like that.

 

Small samples mean nothing. And, the Brewers have had their thought process proven correct in this case- they didn't have the luxury to have Knebel have a season where, at $5million, he oscillates between dominant, hurt, and ineffective (or some combination of the three). The Dodgers did have that luxury, hence the trade. And now, despite a really great 5 initial IP (followed by a couple not so great IP, but we won't go into that), they're paying him to sit on the IL well into the summer based on the current reports.

 

 

Right, I did, and I don't agree. It was more about Knebel's velocity coming back than it was about him not allowing a run over a few innings.

 

I didn't fault the Brewers for letting Knebel go at the time or now, but the line about people using "faulty logic?" Again, YOU'RE declaring the only reason people thought they made a mistake in letting Knebel go was because of 3.1 IP. That's faulty logic.

 

Knebel WAS back to his old dominant self. He was back in the upper 90's and throwing using that nasty 12-6 to close out games for the Dodgers. It feels just as disingenuous to claim this lat injury was just so predictable as it is to compare keeping Nelson with keeping Knebel or many of the other arguments made.

[HiAndTight]

This wasn’t cost cutting. They spent on a bat (Bradley). Early on not a wise choice.

 

 

I think it was cost cutting...and I don't see what's wrong with that.

 

We traded him in December when we still had no idea what this season would look like. They then signed JBJ over 3 months later when it was a little more clear they'd very likely have fans in the stands for some part of the season. People were getting vaccinated at that point.

 

In most season, I'm pretty confident the Brewers would have kept Knebel.

 

They'd JUST got through a season paying him ~5 million dollars when they knew he was coming back from TJ. If the argument is they were going to dump him either way, then it really makes no sense that they kept him for 2020. Same salary and unlike coming into this year, he hadn't shown his arm was coming back.

 

So I guess when you frame it as "he's the highest non-closer, non-8th inning guy," you have to know that's not a real accurate description of him. He was closing games for the Dodgers.

 

 

This can be summed up SO simply. He's a great arm, but the Brewers had cheaper and lost a LOT of money last year. That doesn't make Attanasio look like Robert Nutting.

[PeaveyFury]

Again, YOU'RE declaring the only reason people thought they made a mistake in letting Knebel go was because of 3.1 IP. That's faulty logic.

 

Perhaps YOU weren't, but others were certainly in their own 'I told you so' mode based on said small sample.

 

In the end, I'm content to leave the discussion where things are for now- someone else is paying him $5 million to sit on the IL for the next few months, and the Brewers look pretty smart/vindicated as such, regardless of whether his velocity returned for the baseball equivalent of two blinks of an eye.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

This wasn’t cost cutting. They spent on a bat (Bradley). Early on not a wise choice.

 

 

I think it was cost cutting...and I don't see what's wrong with that.

 

We traded him in December when we still had no idea what this season would look like. They then signed JBJ over 3 months later when it was a little more clear they'd very likely have fans in the stands for some part of the season. People were getting vaccinated at that point.

 

In most season, I'm pretty confident the Brewers would have kept Knebel.

 

They'd JUST got through a season paying him ~5 million dollars when they knew he was coming back from TJ. If the argument is they were going to dump him either way, then it really makes no sense that they kept him for 2020. Same salary and unlike coming into this year, he hadn't shown his arm was coming back.

 

So I guess when you frame it as "he's the highest non-closer, non-8th inning guy," you have to know that's not a real accurate description of him. He was closing games for the Dodgers.

 

 

This can be summed up SO simply. He's a great arm, but the Brewers had cheaper and lost a LOT of money last year. That doesn't make Attanasio look like Robert Nutting.

 

It was risk mitigation ... but in this case, risk mitigation is a close relative of cost cutting.

[Outlander]

It is also staying within whatever budget Stearns has, he chose to allocate his budget to other areas. Determining how you spend your allocated budget isn't necessarily cutting costs it is prioritizing your money how feel it is best spent.

[adambr2]

It is also staying within whatever budget Stearns has, he chose to allocate his budget to other areas. Determining how you spend your allocated budget isn't necessarily cutting costs it is prioritizing your money how feel it is best spent.

 

See I'm not really sure that something like 12-14M on JBJ then was necessarily a great allocation of resources given our OF situation (obviously thin at the moment, but not when healthy)

 

I'm curious as to whether that money was truly "available" or if some guys are Mark A guys that he is willing to go over his set budget for. In other words perhaps if they didn't get JBJ that didn't necessarily mean that Stearns and Arnold had another 12-14M to spend how they saw fit.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

It is also staying within whatever budget Stearns has, he chose to allocate his budget to other areas. Determining how you spend your allocated budget isn't necessarily cutting costs it is prioritizing your money how feel it is best spent.

 

See I'm not really sure that something like 12-14M on JBJ then was necessarily a great allocation of resources given our OF situation (obviously thin at the moment, but not when healthy)

 

I'm curious as to whether that money was truly "available" or if some guys are Mark A guys that he is willing to go over his set budget for. In other words perhaps if they didn't get JBJ that didn't necessarily mean that Stearns and Arnold had another 12-14M to spend how they saw fit.

 

I think Attanasio got a little case of happy feet after Turner spurned him to re-sign with the Dodgers. He had already made the decision that he wanted to make a splash, but the Turner thing drug on so long that many of the other logical FA fits had already found homes. Bradley was really the last "big" name left out there, and if you squint hard enough, you can see a fit with his skillset and LH bat. It's unfortunate that his bat hasn't come alive yet, which is causing fans to question the deal.

[Hopper]

It is also staying within whatever budget Stearns has, he chose to allocate his budget to other areas. Determining how you spend your allocated budget isn't necessarily cutting costs it is prioritizing your money how feel it is best spent.

 

See I'm not really sure that something like 12-14M on JBJ then was necessarily a great allocation of resources given our OF situation (obviously thin at the moment, but not when healthy)

 

I'm curious as to whether that money was truly "available" or if some guys are Mark A guys that he is willing to go over his set budget for. In other words perhaps if they didn't get JBJ that didn't necessarily mean that Stearns and Arnold had another 12-14M to spend how they saw fit.

 

I think Attanasio got a little case of happy feet after Turner spurned him to re-sign with the Dodgers. He had already made the decision that he wanted to make a splash, but the Turner thing drug on so long that many of the other logical FA fits had already found homes. Bradley was really the last "big" name left out there, and if you squint hard enough, you can see a fit with his skillset and LH bat. It's unfortunate that his bat hasn't come alive yet, which is causing fans to question the deal.

 

I have a couple of Sox fans that told me as soon as we got him that his bat will absolutely drive you crazy as a fan.

Hot streaks, and severe cold streaks.

They told me his glove will amaze you, but his bat will frustrate you to no end.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I have a couple of Sox fans that told me as soon as we got him that his bat will absolutely drive you crazy as a fan.

Hot streaks, and severe cold streaks.

They told me his glove will amaze you, but his bat will frustrate you to no end.

 

They were spot on, at least so far. Very similar to Cain glove-wise, but closer to Keon Broxton bat-wise. He's had a few big moments with the bat, but the consistency isn't there yet. I certainly don't expect the .814 OPS he put up for the Red Sox last year, but if he could get it into the mid to high .700s, while continuing to play his upper end defense, I'd be satisfied.

[Hopper]

I have a couple of Sox fans that told me as soon as we got him that his bat will absolutely drive you crazy as a fan.

Hot streaks, and severe cold streaks.

They told me his glove will amaze you, but his bat will frustrate you to no end.

 

They were spot on, at least so far. Very similar to Cain glove-wise, but closer to Keon Broxton bat-wise. He's had a few big moments with the bat, but the consistency isn't there yet. I certainly don't expect the .814 OPS he put up for the Red Sox last year, but if he could get it into the mid to high .700s, while continuing to play his upper end defense, I'd be satisfied.

 

Expecting consistency is going to be a stretch.

He has never been consistent offensively.