Pelicans Jrue Holiday to Bucks - Three 1st Rounders + Hill + Bledsoe

[adambr2]

I feel like I have a decent understanding of the financials of MLB, and to a slightly lesser extent, the NFL.

 

 

I don't even try anymore with the NBA. It is way over my head, and I am a numbers guy.

[reillymcshane]

We really only need 8 good players for the playoffs. So between the draft, free agency, and buyouts, we need to find 3 players.

This is correct. The benches get shorter in the playoffs. And as people have noted, you don't have to fill all 15 of your roster slots.

[homer]

Bogdanovic hit over 40% of his 323 catch-and-shoot 3s, but only 29% of 118 off-the-dribble 3s.

 

This seems like a good thing. Bucks were #1 in the league in catch and shoot attempts two years ago and fourth in the league last season.

[adambr2]

We really only need 8 good players for the playoffs. So between the draft, free agency, and buyouts, we need to find 3 players.

This is correct. The benches get shorter in the playoffs. And as people have noted, you don't have to fill all 15 of your roster slots.

 

Maybe the other side benefit here is that Budd will finally be forced to play Giannis for 40+ minutes in the playoffs and not cap him at 32. (I know I'm embellishing, but still.)

[patrickgpe]

"The Bucks are acquiring the No. 42 pick and No. 60 pick in Wednesday’s draft from the Pelicans, sources tell

@TheAthleticNBA"

 

Apparently part of this swap. Makes perfect sense.

MARCUS HOWARD!

[CheezWizHed]

Bogdanovic hit over 40% of his 323 catch-and-shoot 3s, but only 29% of 118 off-the-dribble 3s.

 

This seems like a good thing. Bucks were #1 in the league in catch and shoot attempts two years ago and fourth in the league last season.

 

Thanks, I was curious about this very thing. Offensive schemes and players around you can change the game drastically.

 

MARCUS HOWARD!

 

I was just looking at his profile and wondering. A good 3pt shooter and our defensive scheme (i.e. rarely switching) would probably fit him best for his lack of size.

[PeaveyFury]

I feel like I have a decent understanding of the financials of MLB, and to a slightly lesser extent, the NFL.

 

 

I don't even try anymore with the NBA. It is way over my head, and I am a numbers guy.

 

You and me both. I consider myself to have a good handle on the NFL cap, and looking at the NBA cap stuff this morning made my head spin. When I got to 'apron' and the like, I was done.

[CheezWizHed]

Seriously guys.. how can you not understand the salary apron? It is simple... It is like a salary cap, but instead of being the top level with no more, its simply tied around the waist and prevents spills!

 

yeah, I have no idea either.

[HiAndTight]

They gave up a lot of picks but it's not like they can't recoup them with trades later on.

 

 

Sure, but if they're at the stage where they're trading players to recoup picks, that means they're likely a bad team and the players they'd be trading would likely be Holliday(assuming he extends), Middleton, and Bogdanovic.

 

Right, that's why it's a win/win. If they continue to be a title contender, 29th or 30th pick is't really worth much- even as trade bait. If they're bad, it's only because Giannis demands a trade at some point. Then you blow it all up anyhow. Trade away Giannis, Kris....everybody and you get 1st round picks back and a ton of cap room.

 

 

Yeah, I get that...and I'm not trying to be negative...this was an objectively good day for the Bucks and their fans.

 

BUT...if you get to that point, you can "blow it up," and then you will be terrible, but you won't own your own picks....so...you'd be missing the main component of rebuilding.

 

And I was thinking more if Giannis doesn't re-sign. So then you've got this team minus the Greak Freak and your picks.

 

So I think it's either win BIG or lose BIG. But it's more than worth the risk. My old man still talks about the Bucks Championship and the 70's Marquette teams. So if they win the title this year and then Giannis leaves, this decade is still a huge win.

[HiAndTight]

Still...just because I already mentioned him and because this scouting report uses Jrue Holliday as a comp, I've gotta post it.

 

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/karim-mane/

 

I got to the second line and am convinced he will become a Buck: Has amazing wingpan (measured at almost 7 feet)…

 

 

Right? I mean...Jason Kidd was TERRIBLE, but the idea made some sense. I'm just going off this kid's athletic ability, what they say about his work ethic, and then just the size and length, I'm just dreaming about a 34-year-old Jrue Holliday with a 24-year-old kid who we've brought along ready to step up and become a star. I hope they are at least thinking like this...get your older College player who can come in and contribute right away and then look for a young guy with big upside.

 

 

Guys like Bam, Siakam, Luis Scola, Marc Gasol, Manu, Tony Parker...and a whole lot more were drafted later and were or ARE key to Championship caliber teams. To win it all...and keep the window open, the Bucks have to be just about perfect from here on out.

 

We're all set right now, but I want Giannis to have an ALL-TIME great run with the Bucks(as opposed to the rest of you Bucks fans I'm sure...)so I know it's a long shot, but I hope this draft is more than just a couple Sterling Brown types.

[HiAndTight]

 

The two 2nd round picks will cost only around a million each. So that helps. We should be able to add some serviceable veterans to fill out the roster.

 

 

Do you think we've got a shot at someone more than just serviceable with the MLE? Again, Serge was being talked about as a potential target for the Bucks. He's near the end of his career. Do you think they'll try to add one more significant contributor or kinda piece the rest of the roster together with minimum salary guys?

The problem is that we have a hard cap of approximately $139M. We cannot go over that because of the sign-and-trade deal with Bogdanovic (it's a rule that kicks in when you do a sign-and-trade).

 

Our salary is at $123M (according to the graphic posted earlier) for 7 players. That means we have to squeeze everyone in for about $16M. And that's assuming we want to go above the tax line (which is $132M). That would only leave us about $9M.

 

The MLE is, I think, $9.5M. But it's hard to imagine spending that all on one guy. They might want to split it up.

 

I'm guessing we draft a couple of guys ($1M each), which helps keep costs down. I guess who we spend on will depend on who's willing to come to Milwaukee - and at what price. I'm guessing we get some decent guys, but not guarantee.

 

 

Ok...I didn't know that. I thought as long as you signed the guy while you had cap space, you could still use the MLE to go over the Cap. What do they do if you were to sign a player...say Jordan Clarkson now for 4/40...and then they filled out their roster with guys making the veterans minimum? How do they enforce that?

 

I'm not questioning you...I'm just asking questions because the NBA salary cap is easily the most convoluted.

 

Also, are you including the likelihood that we are given some cap relief for Leuer? It SEEMS as though that's very likely to happen(but hasn't yet, so I'd assume you're not counting that into you're not figuring that in yet).

[HiAndTight]

Seriously guys.. how can you not understand the salary apron? It is simple... It is like a salary cap, but instead of being the top level with no more, its simply tied around the waist and prevents spills!

 

yeah, I have no idea either.

 

 

LOL...nice to see the rest of you are just as lost as I am.

 

 

Luckily there are always a few "reillymcshanes" on these boards to help us navigate it so we don't sound like idiots.

[MrTPlush]

I don't see the appeal of Marcus Howard. Just resign Frank Mason and have the same type of player with the same size deficiency. Seems to make more sense to go with the veteran versus a rookie...especially when it would be filling a bench spot.

 

I guess Howard technically has zero NBA experience so you can dream of catching lightning in a bottle...but probably not.

[HiAndTight]

Bogdanovic hit over 40% of his 323 catch-and-shoot 3s, but only 29% of 118 off-the-dribble 3s.

 

This seems like a good thing. Bucks were #1 in the league in catch and shoot attempts two years ago and fourth in the league last season.

 

 

Watching this guy's highlights...he seems like a really smart player who's going to fit in perfectly here. A very good passer...he can take guys off the dribble a little bit and create for others. He's not Toni Kukoc, but he seems like a great fit as the FOURTH option to keep the ball moving and to be able to catch and shoot and hit those threes.

 

I'd love to get Wes back, but Bogdanovic is a huge upgrade offensively and adequate defensively.

 

Still...I'd really hope Wes would want to come back to Milwaukee. This is his home, he'll still be in line to play ~30 minutes a game if he can. I just don't see a reason for him to go to LAL unless they can offer just that much more when he can stay here and bring a Title to the City you played your College Ball in and the State you grew up in.

[patrickgpe]

Bucks are going to get some vet ring chasers. like I previously said, bucks can get a shooter in the draft. maybe there is a team looking to get out of a guaranteed contract and would take 42 and 60 for a late 1st and you could get a desmond bane or cassius winston.

[patrickgpe]

I don't see the appeal of Marcus Howard. Just resign Frank Mason and have the same type of player with the same size deficiency. Seems to make more sense to go with the veteran versus a rookie...especially when it would be filling a bench spot.

 

I guess Howard technically has zero NBA experience so you can dream of catching lightning in a bottle...but probably not.

dude can shoot, yes he sucks defensively, but if you want a shooter to come off the bench he did it consistently for 4 years in a pretty darn good conference. His NBA potential isn't great, but he does have one skill that no NBA team has enough of.

[HiAndTight]

I don't see the appeal of Marcus Howard. Just resign Frank Mason and have the same type of player with the same size deficiency. Seems to make more sense to go with the veteran versus a rookie...especially when it would be filling a bench spot.

 

I guess Howard technically has zero NBA experience so you can dream of catching lightning in a bottle...but probably not.

 

 

I think Howard is most likely a guy who scores 20 PPG in the G-League and never does anything in the NBA....BUT, I think the hope is he's a 6th man, a spark plug type player. A poor man Trey Young.

 

He is 5'11 as they measure NBA players. Trey Young's just 6'1 and Fred VanVleet is just 6'1 as well. Maybe a poor man's Isaiah Thomas is a better comp. He's just 5'9 and he found a way to contribute to good teams.

 

 

Plus...he's a Marquette guy, so people are familiar with him.

[homer]

Bogdanovic hit over 40% of his 323 catch-and-shoot 3s, but only 29% of 118 off-the-dribble 3s.

 

This seems like a good thing. Bucks were #1 in the league in catch and shoot attempts two years ago and fourth in the league last season.

 

Thanks, I was curious about this very thing. Offensive schemes and players around you can change the game drastically.

 

 

Re: Holiday

 

He hit 36% of his catch and shoot threes. Compare that to Bledsoe who hit 26.4%

[reillymcshane]

 

 

Do you think we've got a shot at someone more than just serviceable with the MLE? Again, Serge was being talked about as a potential target for the Bucks. He's near the end of his career. Do you think they'll try to add one more significant contributor or kinda piece the rest of the roster together with minimum salary guys?

The problem is that we have a hard cap of approximately $139M. We cannot go over that because of the sign-and-trade deal with Bogdanovic (it's a rule that kicks in when you do a sign-and-trade).

 

Our salary is at $123M (according to the graphic posted earlier) for 7 players. That means we have to squeeze everyone in for about $16M. And that's assuming we want to go above the tax line (which is $132M). That would only leave us about $9M.

 

The MLE is, I think, $9.5M. But it's hard to imagine spending that all on one guy. They might want to split it up.

 

I'm guessing we draft a couple of guys ($1M each), which helps keep costs down. I guess who we spend on will depend on who's willing to come to Milwaukee - and at what price. I'm guessing we get some decent guys, but not guarantee.

 

 

Ok...I didn't know that. I thought as long as you signed the guy while you had cap space, you could still use the MLE to go over the Cap. What do they do if you were to sign a player...say Jordan Clarkson now for 4/40...and then they filled out their roster with guys making the veterans minimum? How do they enforce that?

 

I'm not questioning you...I'm just asking questions because the NBA salary cap is easily the most convoluted.

 

Also, are you including the likelihood that we are given some cap relief for Leuer? It SEEMS as though that's very likely to happen(but hasn't yet, so I'd assume you're not counting that into you're not figuring that in yet).

 

Leuer would give us $3M - but I don't think that would open up until later in the season. But not sure of that.

 

And yes, the NBA cap stuff is kind of convoluted.

 

The key thing for the Bucks is that by orchestrating a sign-and-trade, they are CANNOT go over the $138.9M line. It's called an Apron, but in reality, it's a hard cap for Milwaukee.

 

Normally, you can go over the Apron if you're resigning your own players - but the sign-and-trade deal for Bogdanovic kicks in a clause that simply gives us a hard cap.

[patrickgpe]

 

Plus...he's a Marquette guy, so people are familiar with him.

that is a big part. I have seen almost every collegiate game he played in. Most of the 2nd round guys I cannot pick out of a lineup. it will be interesting to see where he goes tomorrow since he does have some negatives, but then again he is just a non-guaranteed contract 2nd round guy so the risk isn't large.

[patrickgpe]

 

Re: Holiday

 

He hit 36% of his catch and shoot threes. Compare that to Bledsoe who hit 26.4%

plus he is one of the better defenders as a point guard.

[HiAndTight]

Bucks are going to get some vet ring chasers. like I previously said, bucks can get a shooter in the draft. maybe there is a team looking to get out of a guaranteed contract and would take 42 and 60 for a late 1st and you could get a desmond bane or cassius winston.

 

 

NBA.net has Bane as the #41 and Winston at I think #58.

 

I know they're mocked much higher than on other sites, but who knows, maybe one will be there at 40. Bane does look like he could be this year's Brogdon. They have somewhat similar profiles.

 

Guys like Cassius Stanley will likely go ahead of those two just because he's younger and has the higher upside...so who knows, maybe, as someone else mentioned those veteran college stars who are always undervalued...maybe they're sitting there when we pick at #40.

 

Getting the 40th and 60th picks in this draft makes this go from a great trade to a nearly perfect trade in my eyes. You still have a chance to get young talent....even if those guys are unlikely to hit.

[thebruce44]

We really only need 8 good players for the playoffs. So between the draft, free agency, and buyouts, we need to find 3 players.

This is correct. The benches get shorter in the playoffs. And as people have noted, you don't have to fill all 15 of your roster slots.

 

Has anyone let Bud know this?

[HiAndTight]

 

Leuer would give us $3M - but I don't think that would open up until later in the season. But not sure of that.

 

And yes, the NBA cap stuff is kind of convoluted.

 

The key thing for the Bucks is that by orchestrating a sign-and-trade, they are CANNOT go over the $138.9M line. It's called an Apron, but in reality, it's a hard cap for Milwaukee.

 

Normally, you can go over the Apron if you're resigning your own players - but the sign-and-trade deal for Bogdanovic kicks in a clause that simply gives us a hard cap.

 

 

Well...that sucks. The rumors about players we might sign make little sense now then, but alright.

 

I would assume though if the Bucks found themselves right at the hard cap half-way into the season and then suffered a spate of injuries and only had 10 guys left on their active rosters, there has to be a mechanism in there that'd allow them to sign some G-league or minimum salary players, right?

 

Like how in the NFL only the top 51 players count against the Cap so the Cap.

[homer]

Apparently, the Celtics offered Gordon Hayward and three firsts for Holiday.