Pelicans Jrue Holiday to Bucks - Three 1st Rounders + Hill + Bledsoe

[OldSchoolSnapper]

None of this changes two main reasons they wee bounced from playoffs the past two years. Giannis and Bud need to be better in the playoffs, or it doesn't matter how they shuffle the rest of the chairs.

 

When Giannis goes 30 and 10 the Bucks lose by 10 the problem is not him falling short in the playoffs. When your supposed third scorer is chipping in single digits multiple times a series, he is the problem. The back-to-back MVP that is the crown jewel of every capable GM is not the problem with the Bucks in the playoffs. He's fine. The coach is possibly another story. It started get really silly watching games where Giannis would score 35 points and pull down 15 rebounds but miss a bunch of shots going into the wall in the last 3 minutes and people would conclude he needs to develop his game. He is what he is, he's not transforming his 18-footer into Glenn Robinson's at this point.

 

They desperately needed a supporting player capable of generating his own offense at the end of game so the Bucks aren't solely reliant on Giannis closing out games at the line.

 

Bogdanovic is a quality shooter who also won't be a negative defensively. That is the key in this for me. It's one thing to add shooters, it's another to add shooters who can at least hold themselves together on the other end. Holiday is a lot more than that.

 

If it doesn't work out, it'll be hard to say the Bucks didn't at least have the right idea and they certainly tried.

[CheezWizHed]

I choked a bit on giving up two players and three 1st round draft picks, but as I posted in another thread, our history of drafting has been horrid - especially on late 1st rounders. I do hope we protected at least a couple of these 1st rounders.

 

Even if Giannis leaves this year, we are positioned well to make a final run at a title. Given that our last title was at the year of my birth, I'd be happy to win one and go back to sucking for a while. [sarcasm]Or maybe we empty the house and sign LeBron and his entourage next.[/sarcasm]

[reillymcshane]

I love Holiday - so adding him is pretty amazing. Cost is huge, but let's roll the dice and go for it.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I'm not seeing the huge cost unless you're a believer in draft picks, which I am not, not in the NBA. Even without Giannis the Bucks are still probably NBA purgatory floating around the 8th seed so these picks aren't going to be lottos. What would you rather have, some first round picks or Giannis signed?

 

The Kings deal is crazy. They did us a huge favor. DDV is a nice player but they let us dump salary and we actually got something back.

[HiAndTight]

 

Jrue Holiday is 7 months younger than Bledsoe.

 

 

My mistake. I knew Jrue was just shy of 30had just turned 30, but I thought he was a little older than Bled.

 

It wasn't a criticism of the trade though. Holliday has that Rondo gene. Regular season...not a big difference between the two, but in the playoffs, he's been so much better.

 

 

Just watched First Take though...which I certainly don't do to get informed, but rather for the entertainment. Steven A is still arguing he's right and the Bucks should trade Giannis at the deadline.

 

He's turning into Skip Bayless. I never thought he was a great analysis before....but now he's just saying REALLY nonsensical stuff just to fit his previous arguments.

 

I actually expect Giannis will announce an extension in the next week or two. I don't know if it matters when he does it. If I was the Bucks, I'd try to keep it quiet because I think players like Joe Harris and Dragic and others might be gotten for cheap this off-season if the big players are holding onto that Cap room hoping they can sign Giannis...I'm still hoping the Bucks are willing to push it a bit further and use that full MLE on one more piece, but we'll see. But what I KNOW is not happening is that the Bucks are NOT gonna trade Giannis at this trade deadline!

[CheezWizHed]

I'm not seeing the huge cost unless you're a believer in draft picks, which I am not, not in the NBA. Even without Giannis the Bucks are still probably NBA purgatory floating around the 8th seed so these picks aren't going to be lottos. What would you rather have, some first round picks or Giannis signed?

 

The Kings deal is crazy. They did us a huge favor. DDV is a nice player but they let us dump salary and we actually got something back.

 

I'm more concerned about the cap being maxed and no 1st round picks for years to use as trade collateral. Really reduces our flexibility.

 

And I just realized that this trade puts Thanasis as our 6th man...

 

[HiAndTight]

I'm not seeing the huge cost unless you're a believer in draft picks, which I am not, not in the NBA. Even without Giannis the Bucks are still probably NBA purgatory floating around the 8th seed so these picks aren't going to be lottos. What would you rather have, some first round picks or Giannis signed?

 

The Kings deal is crazy. They did us a huge favor. DDV is a nice player but they let us dump salary and we actually got something back.

 

The cost is really contingent upon the contracts of Giannis and Jrue.

If both sign, the picks are likely not that big of a factor. If they don't sign, then you're just dead in the water for 4-5 years.

 

Like the Nets after the Celtics trade, minus the potential to sign Free Agents. So you're talking about what COULD be 5 really rough years worth of picks that the Pelicans own or have the right to swap with you.

 

I don't think anyone's saying they'd rather have the 1sts and lose Giannis.

 

Bottom line, we probably overpaid for Holliday, underpaid for Bogdanovic, but I think if anyone had been presented with the idea that we'd get BOTH of those players for Bledsoe, Hill, DD, Wilson, Ersan, 3 1sts, and 2 swaps, they'd have jumped at it.

 

 

And again, we still have a ~4/40 contract we could hand out...and I believe a bi-annual exception. My guess is they split up the MLE on a couple players...they definitely need a PG. But either way, this is the best starting 5 the Bucks have had since they sent a certain HOF'er to the Lakers in the 70's. So...we want our teams to go for it, the Bucks are doing their part now.

[PeaveyFury]

I'd think they could easily sign a guy like Dekker to be a bench contributor for very little $.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I'd think they could easily sign a guy like Dekker to be a bench contributor for very little $.

 

LOL ... someone actually tagged him on Twitter to ask just that, and he said he'd play for free.

 

Obviously he's joking, but it would be fun to see a state guy like that, and a huge Packer/Brewer homer to boot, get a chance to log a few minutes on a title contender. He actually wouldn't be a terrible fit as an athletic wing who is a capable defender.

[HiAndTight]

I'm not seeing the huge cost unless you're a believer in draft picks, which I am not, not in the NBA. Even without Giannis the Bucks are still probably NBA purgatory floating around the 8th seed so these picks aren't going to be lottos. What would you rather have, some first round picks or Giannis signed?

 

The Kings deal is crazy. They did us a huge favor. DDV is a nice player but they let us dump salary and we actually got something back.

 

I'm more concerned about the cap being maxed and no 1st round picks for years to use as trade collateral. Really reduces our flexibility.

 

And I just realized that this trade puts Thanasis as our 6th man...

 

 

 

Yeah...again, this isn't a criticism of the trades, but my concern is the same. You're pretty much doing what the Cavs did with LeBron.

 

When you have a superstar like Giannis, it's worth it, but...the Spurs should be everyone's model on how to build and not be overly aggressive. If you have the luxury of knowing your star is staying...you can be more patient and or not have to overpay for talent like we did with Holliday.

 

 

 

It's really going to be interesting to me to see what players are willing to come to Milwaukee to play with this team. The older guys who want to wing another ring(or just A ring). Guys like Crowder, Matthews, I've heard Serge Ibaka's named thrown around as someone the Bucks could target with that MLE.

 

 

Frank Mason, Cam Reynolds, Sterling Brown...we'll likely buy at LEAST 1 2nd round pick, probably 2.

 

Horst said they wanted to get more top-heavy. They didn't want 10 good guys, they wanted to focus on improving those core players. They definitely did that.

[homer]

They gave up a lot of picks but it's not like they can't recoup them with trades later on.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

"The Bucks are acquiring the No. 42 pick and No. 60 pick in Wednesday’s draft from the Pelicans, sources tell

@TheAthleticNBA"

 

Apparently part of this swap. Makes perfect sense.

[PeaveyFury]

I'd think they could easily sign a guy like Dekker to be a bench contributor for very little $.

 

LOL ... someone actually tagged him on Twitter to ask just that, and he said he'd play for free.

 

Obviously he's joking, but it would be fun to see a state guy like that, and a huge Packer/Brewer homer to boot, get a chance to log a few minutes on a title contender. He actually wouldn't be a terrible fit as an athletic wing who is a capable defender.

 

Too funny. But I think the thought is right- they'll need a few vets who can competently give minutes each game for a fairly low cost. Those guys are definitely out there.

[reillymcshane]

I'd think they could easily sign a guy like Dekker to be a bench contributor for very little $.

 

LOL ... someone actually tagged him on Twitter to ask just that, and he said he'd play for free.

 

Obviously he's joking, but it would be fun to see a state guy like that, and a huge Packer/Brewer homer to boot, get a chance to log a few minutes on a title contender. He actually wouldn't be a terrible fit as an athletic wing who is a capable defender.

 

Too funny. But I think the thought is right- they'll need a few vets who can competently give minutes each game for a fairly low cost. Those guys are definitely out there.

Adding some vets shouldn't be an issue. Just want to get the guys who can help the most.

 

The two 2nd round picks will cost only around a million each. So that helps. We should be able to add some serviceable veterans to fill out the roster.

[HiAndTight]

"The Bucks are acquiring the No. 42 pick and No. 60 pick in Wednesday’s draft from the Pelicans, sources tell

@TheAthleticNBA"

 

Apparently part of this swap. Makes perfect sense.

 

 

Yeah, that's great news. It makes the pieces fit much-much better.

 

 

And it's tough to find someone at 42, but certainly not impossible. A guy like Karim Mane, a 6'6 freak athlete from Canada who hasn't really played against much competition yet would be my ideal pick.

 

Scouting report talks about what a hard worker he is, a grinder, but he's also an explosive athlete. You figure a guy like that should at least be able to turn into a good defender and contribute and maybe you hit on him and he's a 2nd rounder who develops into more.

 

Markus Howard is another guy. He's not going to be a starting PG, but if he can come in and provide some instant offense....might be worth the 60th pick.

[HiAndTight]

 

The two 2nd round picks will cost only around a million each. So that helps. We should be able to add some serviceable veterans to fill out the roster.

 

 

Do you think we've got a shot at someone more than just serviceable with the MLE? Again, Serge was being talked about as a potential target for the Bucks. He's near the end of his career. Do you think they'll try to add one more significant contributor or kinda piece the rest of the roster together with minimum salary guys?

[HiAndTight]

They gave up a lot of picks but it's not like they can't recoup them with trades later on.

 

 

Sure, but if they're at the stage where they're trading players to recoup picks, that means they're likely a bad team and the players they'd be trading would likely be Holliday(assuming he extends), Middleton, and Bogdanovic.

 

The Bucks decided that this was their best chance to keep Giannis and contend for Titles the next 4-5 years. And if things work out badly, they obviously know they could be headed into a 10-year window where they're just awful.

 

So I give the owners a ton of credit for green lighting this trade with all that on the line. It'd be easy to play it safe, maybe just make the Bogdonovic trade and hope that's enough and if it's not, then you can look to rebuild and remain a competitive team.

 

I don't think anyone's actually upset with the loss of the picks...just kinda looking at what it'll mean for the team down the road.

[homer]

I would be looking at college juniors/seniors. They seem to be undervalued in the draft and usually have pretty high floors.

 

Here are some seniors projected to go in Round 2:

Payton Pritchard

Udoka Azubike

Markus Howard

Lawar Stevens

Cassius Winston

Grant Riller

Austin Wiley

Mamadi Diakite

[HiAndTight]

I would be looking at college juniors/seniors. They seem to be undervalued in the draft and usually have pretty high floors.

 

Here are some seniors projected to go in Round 2:

Payton Pritchard

Udoka Azubike

Markus Howard

Lawar Stevens

Cassius Winston

Grant Riller

Austin Wiley

Mamadi Diakite

 

 

I'm sure that's what the Bucks are going to do. Try to find guys who can fill certain roles and who are undervalued.

 

 

Still...just because I already mentioned him and because this scouting report uses Jrue Holliday as a comp, I've gotta post it.

 

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/karim-mane/

[CheezWizHed]

Still...just because I already mentioned him and because this scouting report uses Jrue Holliday as a comp, I've gotta post it.

 

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/karim-mane/

 

I got to the second line and am convinced he will become a Buck: Has amazing wingpan (measured at almost 7 feet)…

[FVBrewerFan]

They gave up a lot of picks but it's not like they can't recoup them with trades later on.

 

 

Sure, but if they're at the stage where they're trading players to recoup picks, that means they're likely a bad team and the players they'd be trading would likely be Holliday(assuming he extends), Middleton, and Bogdanovic.

 

Right, that's why it's a win/win. If they continue to be a title contender, 29th or 30th pick is't really worth much- even as trade bait. If they're bad, it's only because Giannis demands a trade at some point. Then you blow it all up anyhow. Trade away Giannis, Kris....everybody and you get 1st round picks back and a ton of cap room.

[homer]

Still...just because I already mentioned him and because this scouting report uses Jrue Holliday as a comp, I've gotta post it.

 

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/karim-mane/

 

I got to the second line and am convinced he will become a Buck: Has amazing wingpan (measured at almost 7 feet)…

 

He is a total John Hammond pick.

 

(edit: and that's not a rip on anyone. Hammond had a type)

[reillymcshane]

 

The two 2nd round picks will cost only around a million each. So that helps. We should be able to add some serviceable veterans to fill out the roster.

 

 

Do you think we've got a shot at someone more than just serviceable with the MLE? Again, Serge was being talked about as a potential target for the Bucks. He's near the end of his career. Do you think they'll try to add one more significant contributor or kinda piece the rest of the roster together with minimum salary guys?

The problem is that we have a hard cap of approximately $139M. We cannot go over that because of the sign-and-trade deal with Bogdanovic (it's a rule that kicks in when you do a sign-and-trade).

 

Our salary is at $123M (according to the graphic posted earlier) for 7 players. That means we have to squeeze everyone in for about $16M. And that's assuming we want to go above the tax line (which is $132M). That would only leave us about $9M.

 

The MLE is, I think, $9.5M. But it's hard to imagine spending that all on one guy. They might want to split it up.

 

I'm guessing we draft a couple of guys ($1M each), which helps keep costs down. I guess who we spend on will depend on who's willing to come to Milwaukee - and at what price. I'm guessing we get some decent guys, but not guarantee.

[wallus]

We really only need 8 good players for the playoffs. So between the draft, free agency, and buyouts, we need to find 3 players.

[brwrsfan]

They don’t necessarily have to fill all 15 spots either. They can go with 13/14 and leave a spot for a buyout guy later in the year. They’ll have two two way guys available if they really need end of bench guys for a game or two. Don’t think they’ll go that route but it’s certainly possible