Wisconsin Basketball Thread 2020 - 21

[OldSchoolSnapper]

As I said, not a Badgers fan, but I dunno that pro aspirations are a reasonable demand of a coach at UW. There have very few impact NBA players from UW and everyone knows what kind of team they almost always are. It's far from impossible to do at UW, but there's a reason you went to UW and not Kentucky. Recruiting "lies" have been around since the dawn of time. You can not be lying when telling a player what opportunities there may be for him, but over the course of his career realize he just is not good enough for those to unfold.

[GreatNWwi]

Kids were talking in private to their coach, telling him how they felt about the team, their relationship with him as a coach and a mentor and what they wanted from it, and people are ripping them for sharing their feelings with their coach and mentor in what they thought was a private conversation.

 

Lol.

 

To your point, they are being lumped together which is probably unfair individually. However, some of the comments are selfish and childish, especially for college seniors.

 

The biggest problem for the magnificent 7, is that one or more were in on recording the meeting, editing the tape, and then sending it out to a reporter who was willing to write less than half of a story. I dismiss Tucker as a possibility but if he is the culprit my thoughts still apply.

 

The person (or worse people) who recorded this private conversation also were in a position of power to influence the flow. If they used this power, they may have said things to influence others to things they may not have said otherwise. Much like a team brainstorming session. Since they chose to edit the tape, submit it anonymously, and not return the reporters phone calls, I would assume they had an axe to grind and did lead the conversation.

[GreatNWwi]

Trice's "we are not here to build your resume" comment made me think of this: There is a fundamental disconnect for me with players who want to play at the next level, and what coaches need from them at the college level. If a player gets evaluated, and is told he needs to show he can hit a three-point shot for the NBA to be interested, but the coach needs him down on the block playing the 5, who gets what they want? The coach is supposed to win games, and he will put the players in the position he needs to do that. Nigel Hayes changed his shot, presumably based on feedback, and it messed him up in the next season. Tim Tebow had a funky throwing motion that Urban Meyer's staff had no interest in fixing, because it wasn't what was needed to win games at Florida. Tebow could keep running the ball and throwing jump passes to keep the offense moving. Kevin Stemke won the Ray Guy award for punting, but he was a half-second slow for the NFL. Should the Badger staff have worked with him to speed it up? It may have affected his results as a Badger. I would have liked to see Potter prove he could consistently defend a pick and roll, or Reuvers grab a rebound, or Davison improve on his 27% 2-point shot average.

 

If a player has an evaluator in his ear saying he needs to show he can hit the 3 point shot to get the NBA's attention, the path is not to just go out and throw up 3 pointers. The path is to become that player. If you become that player your coach will put in in a position to show that to the NBA.

 

Your example ironically points to some Wisconsin #5s who became three point shooters and had a chance at the NBA after they were told they needed that skill.

[homer]

Kids were talking in private to their coach, telling him how they felt about the team, their relationship with him as a coach and a mentor and what they wanted from it, and people are ripping them for sharing their feelings with their coach and mentor in what they thought was a private conversation.

 

Lol.

 

To your point, they are being lumped together which is probably unfair individually. However, some of the comments are selfish and childish, especially for college seniors.

 

Also, Trice is like 30 years old

[PeaveyFury]

Gard’s #1 goal may be winning games, but these players surely had expectations/wants when they were recruited. If they want to be prepared for a pro career, you promise that, and don’t actually do that guys are going to get mad. Pretty much every player referred to Gard saying one thing and doing another. Saying something just to appease guys in the moment is a short term fix and a long term problem. Seems like a few specifically stated lies or shortcomings from what they were told in the recruiting process.

 

Sounds like Gard needs to start being a bit more honest even if it isn’t what someone wants to hear. Don’t lie to keep them around. Let them leave and find a better fit for the roster/goals.

 

Though I agree with the theory you're putting forth here, I just don't know how applicable it is. Wisconsin's system has been Wisconsin's system for what, 30 years? These guys knew the score. If they didn't, that's more than a little on them.

 

It also requires you to believe that Gard is dishonest, at least in a recruiting sort of way, which goes contrary to everything I've heard and even know first hand (vaguely) about him and his family. Is he probably telling them they're the greatest and they'll really help Wisconsin win like every coach is? Sure. But is he telling them he's getting them a path to the NBA lottery? I find that doubtful....

[MrTPlush]

Gard’s #1 goal may be winning games, but these players surely had expectations/wants when they were recruited. If they want to be prepared for a pro career, you promise that, and don’t actually do that guys are going to get mad. Pretty much every player referred to Gard saying one thing and doing another. Saying something just to appease guys in the moment is a short term fix and a long term problem. Seems like a few specifically stated lies or shortcomings from what they were told in the recruiting process.

 

Sounds like Gard needs to start being a bit more honest even if it isn’t what someone wants to hear. Don’t lie to keep them around. Let them leave and find a better fit for the roster/goals.

 

Though I agree with the theory you're putting forth here, I just don't know how applicable it is. Wisconsin's system has been Wisconsin's system for what, 30 years? These guys knew the score. If they didn't, that's more than a little on them.

 

It also requires you to believe that Gard is dishonest, at least in a recruiting sort of way, which goes contrary to everything I've heard and even know first hand (vaguely) about him and his family. Is he probably telling them they're the greatest and they'll really help Wisconsin win like every coach is? Sure. But is he telling them he's getting them a path to the NBA lottery? I find that doubtful....

 

To be fair they were switching coaches around the time most of these guys came in. It wouldn't be crazy to believe the new coach (especially if he said it) things might be changing. Of course they did give the job to Gard who came right from under the old coach, so no one should have expected much change.

 

I would tend to believe Gard is a bit dishonest in some ways when it comes to coaching the team. I don't think the majority of the team gets this upset because they are babies and unreasonable individuals. Many of them even acknowledged Gard changed in a satisfactory way after Kobe King left, but then went back down the drain. That leads me to think the players didn't have unreasonable expectations and that Gard could indeed please them.

 

I guess one will see what the future holds, but obviously Gard was massive failure at coaching those kids. To have the entire senior class think that poorly of the coach (and I am sure more guys on the team had issues) just has no excuse. Maybe he will learn from it to coach similar guys better or maybe he will recruit differently. He has got to be way better though.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Why does any player's grievance with gard have to be an all or nothing proposition? There's an awful lot of gray area between "lottery pick or nothing".

 

Maybe someone came to Wisconsin knowing they aren't, and never will be a top 15 pick, but want to play basketball, and coming to a school where they can play 4 years and hone and refine their skills and maybe be a 2nd round pick or play in Europe or the G League or somewhere and continue playing for 5-8-10 years fits their agenda better than a school like Kentucky or Duke?

 

Not being coached up to be a top 15 pick doesn't have to be the only end-game. Especially if you came to WI.

[LouisEly]

I'm a as much of a Badger hater as there is, and I seem to remember that Gard was the guy who the players all liked when he was an assistant to Bo Ryan. He was the guy the players would go to if they had problems.

Yeah, because they were scared to go to Ryan. Kaminsky said he avoided Ryan his first two years.

 

What I'm hearing from several sources is that Tucker was stirring the pot with the players (including Kobe King), trying to get the administration to fire Gard so that he could take over as head coach. He's thought to be the one who leaked the recording. It makes sense, and could be the reason why he wasn't retained and replaced with Chambliss. Leaking the tape was revenge. Another rumor is that Gard went to the AD and said it's either him or me.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The most likely scenario is that Gard or whoever, said yes, you have a chance to go pro/become this kind of player at Wisconsin during recruiting. They weren't good enough. That doesn't make it a lie. This "connection" drivel could just as easily be a bunch of guys struggling to come to grips with the end of their basketball careers.

[MrTPlush]

The most likely scenario is that Gard or whoever, said yes, you have a chance to go pro/become this kind of player at Wisconsin during recruiting. They weren't good enough. That doesn't make it a lie. This "connection" drivel could just as easily be a bunch of guys struggling to come to grips with the end of their basketball careers.

 

Didn’t four of them go pro overseas? I’m not a Badgers fan so I don’t really follow them…so maybe they want to go pro overseas and haven’t actually signed with anyone, idk. If they have, sounds like their careers are just fine.

[PeaveyFury]

Gard’s #1 goal may be winning games, but these players surely had expectations/wants when they were recruited. If they want to be prepared for a pro career, you promise that, and don’t actually do that guys are going to get mad. Pretty much every player referred to Gard saying one thing and doing another. Saying something just to appease guys in the moment is a short term fix and a long term problem. Seems like a few specifically stated lies or shortcomings from what they were told in the recruiting process.

 

Sounds like Gard needs to start being a bit more honest even if it isn’t what someone wants to hear. Don’t lie to keep them around. Let them leave and find a better fit for the roster/goals.

 

Though I agree with the theory you're putting forth here, I just don't know how applicable it is. Wisconsin's system has been Wisconsin's system for what, 30 years? These guys knew the score. If they didn't, that's more than a little on them.

 

It also requires you to believe that Gard is dishonest, at least in a recruiting sort of way, which goes contrary to everything I've heard and even know first hand (vaguely) about him and his family. Is he probably telling them they're the greatest and they'll really help Wisconsin win like every coach is? Sure. But is he telling them he's getting them a path to the NBA lottery? I find that doubtful....

 

To be fair they were switching coaches around the time most of these guys came in. It wouldn't be crazy to believe the new coach (especially if he said it) things might be changing. Of course they did give the job to Gard who came right from under the old coach, so no one should have expected much change.

 

I would tend to believe Gard is a bit dishonest in some ways when it comes to coaching the team.

 

Im not sure how you can make a statement like this without more info supporting your argument. What do you mean by this? Or are you basing it solely on the edited stuff in this recording?

 

Also, Kobe King? Isn’t he in the G league draft this year after playing for a D 2 school after transferring from multiple D 1 schools? Perhaps it was Kobe King that was the problem there, rather than the program?

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The most likely scenario is that Gard or whoever, said yes, you have a chance to go pro/become this kind of player at Wisconsin during recruiting. They weren't good enough. That doesn't make it a lie. This "connection" drivel could just as easily be a bunch of guys struggling to come to grips with the end of their basketball careers.

 

Didn’t four of them go pro overseas? I’m not a Badgers fan so I don’t really follow them…so maybe they want to go pro overseas and haven’t actually signed with anyone, idk. If they have, sounds like their careers are just fine.

 

I'd say a good portion of D1 players can "go pro" in Turkey if they really want to, I mean even several guys on our team from Whitewater did that, two even becoming all stars over there. But I don't think that kids good enough to get Big Ten schollies dream of playing for Petkim Spor. But not what I meant by "going pro" in this conversation. A lot of guys are done with competitively playing after the NCAA though, by choice.

 

What I meant though is that a coach saying things to you on the recruiting trail that don't come to fruition doesn't necessarily mean he lied, although I am sure that does happen.

[Oxy]

This is just weird. That group won the B1G Championship in 2020 and they had no business winning that title. Do they think they won that in spite of Gard being the coach? I can't believe there is a fan/player/coach of any other B1G team who would agree with that position. None of them seem like the me-first screw-the-team type of guys, and I can't really think of instances where they play like that either. Just weird all-around.

 

The Tucker power play move of recording the whole thing is just as weird. He's barely been a coach at all and he gets off on doing something like that and thinks it will work? I guess I'm glad he is gone too. Pay your dues for a few years/decade as an assistant and then interview for head coaching jobs just like everybody else.

 

All around bizarre and embarrassing. Hopefully it all goes away very soon.

 

ALSO: As bad as this episode seems, UW could be in Minnesota or Nebraska or Penn State's position. Heck, INDIANA just fired their coach because he just didn't win.

 

Gard wins. High School players want to win. If they don't, then they are welcome to go to a different school who doesn't win as much as Gard does.

[rickh150]

This was supposedly taped after a very demoralizing loss. Huge bit. Even the best of teammates want answers to the problem of why they are worse this season. Lots of venting with little substance in that taping…

 

Moreover, the team was still on strict, isolation protocol because of COVID in 20/21. Being close and supportive to each other, getting out and doing things socially had to have been very limited. Throw that on top of losing big and regularly to other Big Ten schools in a year expected to be a very good year. Pretty easy to blame shame a coach rather than a friend/teammate with previous shared successes.

 

Frustration was bound to occur and the fault has to be put somewhere. There is plenty of blame to go around probably. If nothing else, Gard will learn a few lessons on keeping tabs and communication with certain players next year. My guess is he is living in a tent on Jonathan Davis’ parents’ lawn this summer to make sure he will be in uniform come fall.

[homer]

Well Alando Tucker seems like a real piece of work:

 

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/uw/2021/08/02/alando-tucker-tried-undermine-greg-gard-and-take-over-uw-coach-wisconsin-badgers/5456411001/

[Sixtofan]

Can you provide some details? I can’t see the link for some reason.

[homer]

As everyone suspected, Tucker has been working behind the scenes to get rid of Gard and get himself hired as basketball coach. Literally went to Barry and asked him to fire Gard. All unnamed sources in the story.

[PeaveyFury]

Good grief. As I noted earlier when he was 'suspected' of leaking the locker room tape, this is so out of character from the player he appeared to be back in the day.

 

"For example, a team source noted Tucker would tell one player to ignore the coaching points of a fellow assistant in charge of that player’s position group."

 

That's absolutely outrageous behavior from an assistant....

[Sixtofan]

That’s awful.

 

Homer - I just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to add the context. I appreciate it.

[hawing]

Yeah, the JS link is "subscribers only" so only subscribers will be able to follow it.

 

My goodness, Alando. I knew it was possible, wasn't hoping it was true, but dang, dude. You just trashed your coaching career.

[pacopete4]

What an idiot. A selfish, somewhat evil, idiot. And shame on those players for not bringing this to light right away so it could be dealt with. For all the grandstanding that group wanted to do at times, he was their chance to get something right and they whiffed. Big time. Hopefully, Gard can now get this thing going in a much more positive direction.

[rickh150]

It would be fun to hear Tucker’s take.

[DuWayne Steurer]

https://wisportsheroics.com/alando-tuckers-secret-plan-backfires/

 

Here is a non-paywalled version. It's (certainly) not unbiased, and certainly not a complete take, but you get the gist of what happened.

[Baldkin]

Yeah, the JS link is "subscribers only" so only subscribers will be able to follow it.

 

My goodness, Alando. I knew it was possible, wasn't hoping it was true, but dang, dude. You just trashed your coaching career.

 

I mean, Jason Kidd is on his 3rd head coaching gig. Anything can happen.

[LouisEly]

According to a reliable source, Tucker was telling players to trash Gard in social media. Players were smart enough to not do that.

 

Nobody is going to hire Tucker as an assistant, much less a coach.