Wisconsin Basketball Thread 2020 - 21

[areacodes]

Brad Davison was known nationally as the premier flopper in college basketball and the cause for the flopping rule for a reason...he was a flopper and much more so than the typical player. Whether he was why the rule actually happened or not...who knows. When you are known as the biggest flopper in the sport the prior season you are probably one of the main reasons for the rule though.

 

See, this is my issue with it. Taking a charge doesn’t equal flopping. The video clip you used as an example showed 4 legit charges and one questionable one yet you call him a flopper.

 

I looked around and found a bunch of Barstool sports and fan blog articles calling Davison out for flopping on legitimate charges which seems to be a key component on his reputation as a flopper but I bristle at it because he doesn’t do stuff like this: https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2017/3/25/15063284/josh-jackson-flop-kansas-oregon-ncaa-tournament-2017

[MrTPlush]

Brad Davison was known nationally as the premier flopper in college basketball and the cause for the flopping rule for a reason...he was a flopper and much more so than the typical player. Whether he was why the rule actually happened or not...who knows. When you are known as the biggest flopper in the sport the prior season you are probably one of the main reasons for the rule though.

 

See, this is my issue with it. Taking a charge doesn’t equal flopping. The video clip you used as an example showed 4 legit charges and one questionable one yet you call him a flopper.

 

I looked around and found a bunch of Barstool sports and fan blog articles calling Davison out for flopping on legitimate charges which seems to be a key component on his reputation as a flopper but I bristle at it because he doesn’t do stuff like this: https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2017/3/25/15063284/josh-jackson-flop-kansas-oregon-ncaa-tournament-2017

 

I don't get it...that's exactly what Davison used to do. Fall down when someone made any kind of contact against him.

 

Davison got called out for flopping on legit fouls because that is what happens when you decide to play theatre any time you get touched. After you flop enough everyone is just going to assume any time you draw a charge you are flopping.

[areacodes]

Obviously we disagree with what Davison used to do and we can leave it at that. Like I said in an earlier post, I wasn’t going to change anybody’s mind and won’t deny I’m looking thru some red tinted lenses to some extent.

[pacopete4]

The only reason I wanted all seniors gone was to start a new era/grouping of Badgers. Davison coming back is fine. He will help be the veteran that will hopefully help this team next season compete. He's a good player that works extremely hard. He's had a few hiccups but from just about anyone's account that knows him, he's a really good dude.

[CheezWizHed]

Obviously we disagree with what Davison used to do and we can leave it at that. Like I said in an earlier post, I wasn’t going to change anybody’s mind and won’t deny I’m looking thru some red tinted lenses to some extent.

 

[sarcasm]You aren't Brad's dad are you?[/sarcasm]

 

I've not watched a ton of WIBB since Bo left, so I don't have much of an opinion of Brad myself. But I did see a few games this year - some he was pretty "normal" and some he was kind of "whiny" especially one game where he was warned on flopping.

 

I don't have a big issue with him personally and don't have an issue with him returning. But he certainly has the reputation.

[nodakfan17]

He was a massive flopper and it was kind of sad/pathetic sometimes. He was a major reason, if not the straw that broke the camel's back to have that rule implemented.

 

 

He also was a bit of a dirty player. I believe he has multiple below the belt shots in his career and other iffy/questionable plays too.

 

I’m pretty indifferent to Badger basketball and didn’t know who this guy was until reading about him on BF. However, IMHO, those plays looked a lot closer to ‘taking a charge’ than flops.

 

I detest that purposely drawing fouls has become part of basketball. It’s very difficult for a defender to keep their feet set when a supremely athletic, 250-pound man comes barreling down the lane. If we’re going to let that be an offensive strategy, what other recourse does a defender have?

[HiAndTight]

He was a massive flopper and it was kind of sad/pathetic sometimes. He was a major reason, if not the straw that broke the camel's back to have that rule implemented.

 

 

He also was a bit of a dirty player. I believe he has multiple below the belt shots in his career and other iffy/questionable plays too.

 

 

Those aren't great examples of him flopping. Those all looked...pretty legitimate.

[MrTPlush]

To me flopping is faking or any excessive exaggeration of a foul. I believe that is what the rule was set out to stop. Not only stop total fake fouls, but to also punish the flopper for trying to sell a ticky-tack type foul that may have been committed. Which arguably all four were. The last two may not have even been true fouls. Hard to say in a real time video as Davison's theatrics were honestly pretty good. They all look legitimate cause he is selling them to look like that.

 

You can nit pick if those fouls shown were flopping or not...I really don't care. Go back a few years and watch some games. There was a reason he racked up charge calls way more than he does now. There is a reason he was known as the biggest flopper in the game. I for one am glad it is out of the game because I thought it was getting pretty lame. Also probably a good reason why I don't care for the NBA.

[jjfanec]

He was a massive flopper and it was kind of sad/pathetic sometimes. He was a major reason, if not the straw that broke the camel's back to have that rule implemented.

 

 

He also was a bit of a dirty player. I believe he has multiple below the belt shots in his career and other iffy/questionable plays too.

 

 

Those aren't great examples of him flopping. Those all looked...pretty legitimate.

 

That was my exact thoughts. If they made a rule based off these they should watch the nba.

 

Brad did have the dirty play against Iowa but overall his "flopping" is not that out of the norm for basketball. His teammates love him. The people I know who know him say he is a great guy. Happy to have him back.

[rickh150]

He was a massive flopper and it was kind of sad/pathetic sometimes. He was a major reason, if not the straw that broke the camel's back to have that rule implemented.

 

 

He also was a bit of a dirty player. I believe he has multiple below the belt shots in his career and other iffy/questionable plays too.

 

 

Those aren't great examples of him flopping. Those all looked...pretty legitimate.

 

Yeah, in a good charge, everyone flops. Seriously, if you try to catch yourself instead of simply falling over upon being legitimately hit, it will be a block.

Davidson is just really good at getting position.

[MrTPlush]

Come on...the guy didn’t magically become the nations flop artist. Some dude at Wisconsin isn’t going to get that much recognition without rightfully earning it, whether that be good or bad recognition. He wasn’t like everyone else, he was worse...that is why he got the flopper title.

 

He is like everyone else now when it comes to taking charges, but that is because his old tactics would end up with a lot of technical fouls. I thought he was decent at getting to position to draw fouls, but he flat out was a guy to play theatrics to draw calls...aka flopping.

 

I get some of you guys may be bias as Wisconsin fans, but a huge contingent of Badger fans knew he was a flopper and the rest of basketball saw him as that. There is probably a reason for that and it isn’t because they all read a SB Nation article that said he was a flopper.

[rickh150]

Come on...the guy didn’t magically become the nations flop artist. Some dude at Wisconsin isn’t going to get that much recognition without rightfully earning it, whether that be good or bad recognition. He wasn’t like everyone else, he was worse...that is why he got the flopper title.

 

He is like everyone else now when it comes to taking charges, but that is because his old tactics would end up with a lot of technical fouls. I thought he was decent at getting to position to draw fouls, but he flat out was a guy to play theatrics to draw calls...aka flopping.

 

I get some of you guys may be bias as Wisconsin fans, but a huge contingent of Badger fans knew he was a flopper and the rest of basketball saw him as that. There is probably a reason for that and it isn’t because they all read a SB Nation article that said he was a flopper.

 

Bandwagon.... many accusers never watched him play. He gets legitimately hit. There is no fake to it. He goes down harder and with more theatrics, sure. But show me where he doesn’t get hit.

[homer]

I think anytime a guy draws a lot of charges he's gonna get called a flopper.

[adambr2]

For me it's mostly because he punched a guy in the dick.

 

The flopping or no flopping is just whatever to me.

[rickh150]

I think anytime a guy draws a lot of charges he's gonna get called a flopper.

 

That’s true. It is seen as cowardly and annoying when done well.

[adambr2]

I dunno. Ersan Ilyasova was about the best there is at it. Did people really see him as a flopper? Maybe they did, I don't know.

[Oxy]

He was a flopper in that he forced officials to make calls in situations that normally would have been no-calls if nobody hit the floor. I'm torn on the whole debate, as basketball is literally supposed to be a non-contact sport. If the offensive player initiates contact toward a defender that is rightfully an offensive foul. Literally if a defensive player keeps his feet in position and an offensive player nudges his upper body the defender is going to either have to step back to right himself or he is going to fall over. What if the defender just kept their feet in position and slowly toppled over? Would that get a call? I kind of wish guys would just do this, instead of launching themselves backward onto their butt or back like they got hit by car...aka drawing a charge/flopping. It would look really weird though, and I doubt it would get any calls.

[HiAndTight]

Come on...the guy didn’t magically become the nations flop artist. Some dude at Wisconsin isn’t going to get that much recognition without rightfully earning it, whether that be good or bad recognition. He wasn’t like everyone else, he was worse...that is why he got the flopper title.

 

He is like everyone else now when it comes to taking charges, but that is because his old tactics would end up with a lot of technical fouls. I thought he was decent at getting to position to draw fouls, but he flat out was a guy to play theatrics to draw calls...aka flopping.

 

I get some of you guys may be bias as Wisconsin fans, but a huge contingent of Badger fans knew he was a flopper and the rest of basketball saw him as that. There is probably a reason for that and it isn’t because they all read a SB Nation article that said he was a flopper.

 

 

All I'm saying is THOSE plays looked like charges. I'm not and wasn't a BB player, but the way you need to get in position to take a charge, I don't know how you stay on your feet.

 

You're not in an athletic position...just the opposite. You're standing straight, on your heels, hands down protecting your....manhood. So it doesn't take much to get knocked over in that situation. And if you brace yourself...stager your feet, you're not going to get the call.

 

So I never said he was or wasn't a flopper. I haven't watched enough of the Badgers recently to say. But those calls all looked legit.

[HiAndTight]

I dunno. Ersan Ilyasova was about the best there is at it. Did people really see him as a flopper? Maybe they did, I don't know.

 

 

Maybe a little. Chris Paul is the one who's the most annoying.

 

I consider flopping more when you start flailing and pretend you caught a big elbow when you really didn't. Not quite so much on charges...that just feels like you're trying to sell it. But I don't know if there's actually a distinction or that's my own arbitrary definition.

[PeaveyFury]

Interesting discussion. Regarding 'flopping' and the Badgers:

 

I think it was fairly well known that the defensive coaching under Bo Ryan (and presumably therefore continued to some degree under Gard) was to get in position and plant your feet, keep your arms and elbows in, and fall to the ground to emphasize legitimate contact. Is that flopping in my opinion? No. Could some view it that way? I suppose.

 

I think a large part of the issue/debate around Davison is due to the fact that he's quicker than most of those Bo Ryan players, and often puts himself into situations defensively where he's in a position to draw contact faster than most and causes the refs to make a judgement call on both whether he's planted and the legitimacy of the contact. He gets a lot of the calls, but on the ones he doesn't get, they're largely close enough to suggest that a ref could call it either way, IMO.

[MrTPlush]

By definition I 'think' flopping is faking a foul that doesn't exist at all. However, generally I think people find any excessive overreaction to a foul to also be flopping. When they implemented the rule they specifically said they were trying to stop excessive reactions to contact too. So I suppose you would have flopping and also excessive theatrics on the basketball court.

 

Players have to sell charges to some extent, NCAA realizes that. However acting like a mac truck hit you or overselling the contact was something they didn't want. It was basically causing a bunch of ticky tack fouls that would never be called in real time without excessive overselling of the foul. The refs don't call those ticky tack fouls where it is clear the defensive player is being a bit over the top in his reaction these days. The Davison style of play from a few years ago just isn't effective anymore. Now the refs just let you lay on the floor as the play goes on.

[areacodes]

I dunno. Ersan Ilyasova was about the best there is at it. Did people really see him as a flopper? Maybe they did, I don't know.

 

 

Maybe a little. Chris Paul is the one who's the most annoying.

 

I consider flopping more when you start flailing and pretend you caught a big elbow when you really didn't. Not quite so much on charges...that just feels like you're trying to sell it. But I don't know if there's actually a distinction or that's my own arbitrary definition.

 

This is where I’m at for the most part with flopping and why I bristle at players being called floppers for attempting to take legitimate charges.

 

Peavey - I believe what your explaining is how Bo Ryan would teach his players to play defense with their body - especially their lower body - instead of with their hands and grabbing.

[areacodes]

Badgers get another transfer:

 

Sophomore guard Jahcobi Neath from Wake Forest.

 

Neath averaged 4.7 points and 2 assists per game in 50 games played at Wake Forest.

[homer]

Badgers get another transfer:

 

Sophomore guard Jahcobi Neath from Wake Forest.

 

Neath averaged 4.7 points and 2 assists per game in 50 games played at Wake Forest.

 

Good. We need more Canadians.

[homer]

Looks like Badgers got a 7 footer transfer from Univ of Cincinnati.

 

 

 

 

Not much offense but he is tall and can block shots.

https://gobearcats.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/chris-vogt/9786