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Shortstop Ha-Seong Kim to be Posted


Kiwoom Heroes shortstop Ha-Seong Kim, who ranked as the No. 1 prospect in the KBO will be posted after the season. He is soon to be 25 years old and both Kyle Glaser of Baseball America and Kiley McDaniel of ESPN have noted that he should be considered a top 100 prospect in baseball once he joins an organization.

 

Below is some additional information on Kim.

 

MLB Trade Rumors article:

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Baseball America article & scouting report:

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Not just “at Night” anymore.
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Kim is definitely intriguing. Between him, Didi, Semien & Andrelton the SS class is kind of sneaky deep this winter.

 

Wouldn't be surprised if Simmons had to settle for a one year prove it deal since defense has always been his calling card & he put up middling marks in the field for the first time ever in the abbreviated season.

 

Andrelton's contact ability is also pretty elite. His 8.4 K% is the lowest out of 164 batters with at least 1,000 PAs since 2018, & despite having no power & not really walking, his 282/328/391 line is good for a near league average 97 wRC+ over that time.

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  sveumrules said:
Kim is definitely intriguing. Between him, Didi, Semien & Andrelton the SS class is kind of sneaky deep this winter.

 

Wouldn't be surprised if Simmons had to settle for a one year prove it deal since defense has always been his calling card & he put up middling marks in the field for the first time ever in the abbreviated season.

 

Andrelton's contact ability is also pretty elite. His 8.4 K% is the lowest out of 164 batters with at least 1,000 PAs since 2018, & despite having no power & not really walking, his 282/328/391 line is good for a near league average 97 wRC+ over that time.

This is a really good point regarding the SS market, and Francisco Lindor is also expected to be traded this offseason.

 

The initial post was more of a PSA than a suggestion that Kim was a likely option for the Brewers, but if they do look for outside help at shortstop this offseason then every added option at the position helps the likelihood for a team like the Brewers to add one of them.

Not just “at Night” anymore.
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I'd pass on KBO players; its an inferior league talent-wise compared to the majors. Thames had a significantly better slash line in the KBO, his OPS since returning to America is 300 points below what he put up in the KBO.
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There were 10 teams that had negative Wins Above Average (according to Baseball-Reference) at the shortstop position during this shortened 2020 season. Listed below from worst-to-"less worse":

 

Reds (-0.8 WAA)

Pirates (-0.8)

Brewers (-0.6)

Royals (-0.6)

Rangers (-0.5)

Twins (-0.5)

A's (-0.4)

Tigers (-0.3)

Mets (-0.3)

Yankees (-0.1)

Not just “at Night” anymore.
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  Eye Black said:
There were 10 teams that had negative Wins Above Average (according to Baseball-Reference) at the shortstop position during this shortened 2020 season. Listed below from worst-to-"less worse":

 

Reds (-0.8 WAA)

Pirates (-0.8)

Brewers (-0.6)

Royals (-0.6)

Rangers (-0.5)

Twins (-0.5)

A's (-0.4)

Tigers (-0.3)

Mets (-0.3)

Yankees (-0.1)

 

I guess there's the indication of what a flop the Urias/Lauer trade was. He couldn't supplant Arcia as the everyday shortstop despite them being terrible at the position overall.

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  Jopal78! said:
  Eye Black said:
There were 10 teams that had negative Wins Above Average (according to Baseball-Reference) at the shortstop position during this shortened 2020 season. Listed below from worst-to-"less worse":

 

Reds (-0.8 WAA)

Pirates (-0.8)

Brewers (-0.6)

Royals (-0.6)

Rangers (-0.5)

Twins (-0.5)

A's (-0.4)

Tigers (-0.3)

Mets (-0.3)

Yankees (-0.1)

 

I guess there's the indication of what a flop the Urias/Lauer trade was. He couldn't supplant Arcia as the everyday shortstop despite them being terrible at the position overall.

Still seems pretty early to write that trade off (even though I was a huge Grisham believer and would not have made the trade myself). Urias and Lauer each missed most, if not all of spring training and then the same with Summer Camp as well. Then the fact that it was a 60 game season in which neither ever had much of a sample size, definitely seems premature to be giving up on it. It very well might not work out, but imo let’s give it a little more time at least.

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I don't think SS is the biggest hole on the team. It's 3B and it's not close. I'd look at Kim as a 3B. Let's compare Kim to Jung Ho Kang. Kang played SS almost exclusively in KBO, and posted a career .886 OPS in 9 seasons in KBO. In his first couple years in MLB, Kang posted OPS of .816 and .867. Kim has a career .864 OPS in 7 years and theoretically is just coming into his prime. I'd take Kang type numbers (without the baggage thank you). Depends on what the cost would be.
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  Jopal78! said:
  Eye Black said:
There were 10 teams that had negative Wins Above Average (according to Baseball-Reference) at the shortstop position during this shortened 2020 season. Listed below from worst-to-"less worse":

 

Reds (-0.8 WAA)

Pirates (-0.8)

Brewers (-0.6)

Royals (-0.6)

Rangers (-0.5)

Twins (-0.5)

A's (-0.4)

Tigers (-0.3)

Mets (-0.3)

Yankees (-0.1)

 

I guess there's the indication of what a flop the Urias/Lauer trade was. He couldn't supplant Arcia as the everyday shortstop despite them being terrible at the position overall.

 

He's 23 and has played in 124 games.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006
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  homer said:
  Jopal78! said:
  Eye Black said:
There were 10 teams that had negative Wins Above Average (according to Baseball-Reference) at the shortstop position during this shortened 2020 season. Listed below from worst-to-"less worse":

 

Reds (-0.8 WAA)

Pirates (-0.8)

Brewers (-0.6)

Royals (-0.6)

Rangers (-0.5)

Twins (-0.5)

A's (-0.4)

Tigers (-0.3)

Mets (-0.3)

Yankees (-0.1)

 

I guess there's the indication of what a flop the Urias/Lauer trade was. He couldn't supplant Arcia as the everyday shortstop despite them being terrible at the position overall.

 

He's 23 and has played in 124 games.

 

He could be 20 and have played in 300 games, it’s irrelevant. When you trade away talent from your major league roster to acquire a player, and he subsequently can’t beat out the player he was specifically brought in to replace, I don’t know what else to call it besides a flop. I’ll grant you maybe it’s the 2020 season, but so far Urias has done nothing but legitimize the questions about his ability to hit in the majors.

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  Jopal78! said:

He could be 20 and have played in 300 games, it’s irrelevant. When you trade away talent from your major league roster to acquire a player, and he subsequently can’t beat out the player he was specifically brought in to replace, I don’t know what else to call it besides a flop. I’ll grant you maybe it’s the 2020 season, but so far Urias has done nothing but legitimize the questions about his ability to hit in the majors.

 

It's this mentality that would have lead the impatient and misguided to toss away the likes of Burnes (25), Woodruff (27), D Williams(26), etc. Not many players take the league by storm at the age of 23.

 

Woodruff made his leap at age 26. Here is a list of Brewers on the 40 man roster aged 25 and under, any of whom could make a similar leap in years to come...

 

Peralta - 24

Lauer - 25

Rasmussen - 25

Bickford - 25

Nottingham - 25

Hiura - 24

Urias - 23

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  Jopal78! said:
  homer said:
  Jopal78! said:

 

I guess there's the indication of what a flop the Urias/Lauer trade was. He couldn't supplant Arcia as the everyday shortstop despite them being terrible at the position overall.

 

He's 23 and has played in 124 games.

 

He could be 20 and have played in 300 games, it’s irrelevant. When you trade away talent from your major league roster to acquire a player, and he subsequently can’t beat out the player he was specifically brought in to replace, I don’t know what else to call it besides a flop. I’ll grant you maybe it’s the 2020 season, but so far Urias has done nothing but legitimize the questions about his ability to hit in the majors.

 

When did Urias have a chance to beat out Arcia? He broke his hamate bone before spring training, then contracted COVID before the restart & by the time he joined the team a quarter of the way through the season Arcia was one of the only guys actually hitting with a .276 average.

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  True Blue Brew Crew said:
  Jopal78! said:

He could be 20 and have played in 300 games, it’s irrelevant. When you trade away talent from your major league roster to acquire a player, and he subsequently can’t beat out the player he was specifically brought in to replace, I don’t know what else to call it besides a flop. I’ll grant you maybe it’s the 2020 season, but so far Urias has done nothing but legitimize the questions about his ability to hit in the majors.

 

It's this mentality that would have lead the impatient and misguided to toss away the likes of Burnes (25), Woodruff (27), D Williams(26), etc. Not many players take the league by storm at the age of 23.

 

Woodruff made his leap at age 26. Here is a list of Brewers on the 40 man roster aged 25 and under, any of whom could make a similar leap in years to come...

 

Peralta - 24

Lauer - 25

Rasmussen - 25

Bickford - 25

Nottingham - 25

Hiura - 24

Urias - 23

 

That is a false equivalency. First of all, Freddy Peralta was 21 when he debuted for the Brewers and put up quality results. Devin Williams was 24 when he debuted (and had missed a year and

a half with injuries). Nearly every other player you mention, Burnes, Woodruff, Lauer, Rasmussen, Bickford, and Hiura were college players. "Patience" has nothing to do with those players, rather they were all 22 or 23 when they turned professional. Nottingham is going to turn 26 and is a fringe starter/back up caliber catcher. He may not be at his ceiling but more probably true than not he's likely close to it.

 

Which of course brings us back to Urias (and this topic). Only bad teams plug prospects in as regulars before they're close to ready. Thus, when trading for Urias the Brewers likely viewed him more as a finished product than raw talent. Yet, he couldn't beat out Arcia, a player they've been trying to replace since 2018. With legitimate questions about his offensive ability, Urias only profiles at SS, so Milwaukee seems set at that position. Maybe they hope Urias can give them what Arcia does albeit at a pre-arbitration price, but that means they traded major league players away to "stand pat" in terms of production. The future is unknown, maybe he adds 20 lbs of muscle to his 5'9" frame and comes back ripping the ball all over the ballpark, it seems like the odds are against it though.

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  Jopal78! said:
Which of course brings us back to Urias (and this topic). Only bad teams plug prospects in as regulars before they're close to ready. Thus, when trading for Urias the Brewers likely viewed him more as a finished product than raw talent. Yet, he couldn't beat out Arcia, a player they've been trying to replace since 2018. With legitimate questions about his offensive ability, Urias only profiles at SS, so Milwaukee seems set at that position.

 

When the Brewers acquired Urias he was 22 with 300 MLB plate appearances...no one is a finished product at age 22 with 300 plate appearances, so I don't see why the Brewers would have viewed him as one.

 

You keep mentioning that he couldn't beat our Arcia, when did this competition occur?

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  sveumrules said:
  Jopal78! said:
Which of course brings us back to Urias (and this topic). Only bad teams plug prospects in as regulars before they're close to ready. Thus, when trading for Urias the Brewers likely viewed him more as a finished product than raw talent. Yet, he couldn't beat out Arcia, a player they've been trying to replace since 2018. With legitimate questions about his offensive ability, Urias only profiles at SS, so Milwaukee seems set at that position.

 

When the Brewers acquired Urias he was 22 with 300 MLB plate appearances...no one is a finished product at age 22 with 300 plate appearances, so I don't see why the Brewers would have viewed him as one.

 

You keep mentioning that he couldn't beat our Arcia, when did this competition occur?

 

Also the aforementioned broken hamate bone and Covid diagnosis.

 

He basically had no spring training at all. He is not a flop by any stretch of the imagination.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006
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When have the Brewers stated they have been trying to replace Arcia since 2018?

 

If anyone has had a solid hold on a position on this team it is Arcia. He has been allowed to be one of the worst offensive players in MLB without truly being challenged by anyone to overtake his position.

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS
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History doesn't really give any concrete information regarding how successful a Korean-born player will perform in MLB after going through the posting system. It just hasn't happened very often. Hyun-jin Ryu has been a hit when on the mound, but he's also been hurt a lot. Jung-ho Kang was also pretty good before getting his leg smashed. On the other hand, Byung-ho Park was a massive flop for the Twins.

 

The thing I wonder about Ha-Seong Kim is if the defensive aspect is real. He's won multiple gold gloves, but is that like in America where gold glove awards tend to be based more on reputation (and sometimes flat out ignorance) than actual performance? If he really can field, a team still can get some value out of him if he plays at a plus-plus level at the shortstop position even if he under-performs with the bat.

 

Even in a market where I think owners will sit on money and use COVID-19 as the excuse, I would still think earning the right to bid on Kim would run a minimum of 15 million dollars. The last guy through the Korean posting system, Byung-ho Park, cost the Twins 12.85 million for the right to negotiate (to the Korean team) and then Park got a 4 year, 12 million dollar deal on top of that. So that was a 24.85 million dollar investment for the Twins. When Ryu was posted, the Dodgers paid 25.7 million to negotiate and then another 6 years, 36 million to Ryu. No idea what it will eventually cost to get Kim in the upcoming market, but I'm guessing that when you add the fee that goes to the Korean team, that it will be too rich for the Brewers to be involved.

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There have been some changed fairly recently, IIRC the posting fee is tied to the size of the contract. So we're unlikely to see those $20m+ posting fees anymore. Still, it appears even the Yankees will be crying poor this offseason, so the bidding might not be very fierce.
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  turborickey said:
When have the Brewers stated they have been trying to replace Arcia since 2018?

 

If anyone has had a solid hold on a position on this team it is Arcia. He has been allowed to be one of the worst offensive players in MLB without truly being challenged by anyone to overtake his position.

 

I stand corrected, since 2019...

 

SS Orlando Arcia: The Brewers had Arcia on the trade market all offseason and again at the Aug. 31 deadline.... Journal Sentinel

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