Zero bunts this year with a dreadful O? how many tight games ?

[DuWayne Steurer]

It feels like a lot of fans somewhat agree that the game is not aesthetically pleasing at this point. I've said that myself a couple times in the last few years with the rapidly rising strikeout rate. High k rates, shifts that definitely make it more difficult for pull hitters and so on.

 

At the same time, I think a lot of fans also agree that a lot of drastic changes at one time would probably be a bad idea. We don't want to see rules where only two infielders are allowed on one side of the infield. we don't want to see the mound lowered and we don't want to see the moans moved back. We don't want to see five balls or three balls or four strikes. a lot of people thought it was blasphemy when they introduced the three batter rule for relief pitchers.

 

Baseball changes a lot over time. I think right now it has just changed in a way that has made the game fundamentally unaesthetically pleasing to watch for a good number of people. I don't think there's a quick or easy fix for that. I do think that of baseball keeps trending this way and we see players striking out 12 or 13 times per 9 innings in the next 10 years that we will probably see some other kind of big or radical change

[Samurai Bucky]

What exactly does 3TO mean?

 

 

Picture summed it up well!

I always thought it was 3PO for Three Possible Outcomes...

[Pugger]

My serious answer is bunting does no good if the guy behind the bunter doesn’t get the run in. The Brewers were terrible getting runs in from 3rd with less than two outs.

 

You said yourself it was a terrible offense, why would you want to give away outs?

 

This. All. Day. Long.

 

Watching this offense unable to get runs in when they have a guy at 3rd and less that 2 outs was so damn frustrating! This bunch did not know how to put the ball in play to save their souls.

[pacopete4]

Putting the ball in play is more about buying into the philosophy that not every swing needs to be out of your shoes. You’re not always trying to drive it to Lake Michigan. Unfortunately, that’s where we are at. Hell, I see some high school coaches preaching this and it is downright stupidity at its finest. You got a kid that’s 150lbs ringing wet trying to drive it 500ft in the air. Problem is, that kid on his best day can hit it 250ft with a stiff wind behind him. Okay, rant over.

[Lathund]

The solution I've seen that I think can work is to on one hand deaden the ball; make the same contact not produce as high exit velocity as before. Unlike increasing drag, it shouldn't have an effect on how pitches move. Deadening the ball some (Obviously not to deadball era levels!) will make selling out for fly balls less attractive, as flyballs with a low chance of leaving the park are awful. To compensate for that you need to make it so that more balls can be put into play. That could be lowering the mound, moving the mound back, or shrinking the strike zone a bit (or a combination of the three). The electronic strike zone could probably even aid with this; you'd expect more strike calls with it since it'll catch those pitches that touch just the very front or back of the 3D zone that are so easy for umpires to miss, so a slightly shrunken strike zone with robo umps might not be a huge change from the current one with humans calling balls and strikes.

 

Of course, a case could be made that there is no need for any "fix", that it's just a natural evolution of the game. But if something was to be done, I think a two-step process like this is what's needed.

[nate82]

This has been bugging me but exit velocity has always been a thing. We are just now in an era where it can be measured quantified and evaluated. The information is now available to us it is not something new. I think someone in this thread said that they would take the softer exit velocity Gwynn which makes no sense at all. Gwynn hit a lot of doubles and a few HR's each year. He wasn't getting those doubles and HR's off of softly hit balls or a lower exit velocity than we are seeing today.

 

Exit velocity tells us how hard the ball is being hit which is a good thing. You don't want a low exit velocity as those are mostly going to be weak pop ups and weakly hit ground balls for outs the majority of the time.

 

Gwynn squared up on the ball a lot which yes you guessed it created high exit velocities. Going back to when I was younger and watching players like Thomas, Griffey, Molitor, Yount and others they all hit the ball rather hard and had great exit velocities on their extra base hits and even on the singles you could hear and see the ball exiting off the bat that the ball was hit really hard. Exit velocity is definitely something that the players knew about back then they just called it something different. Usually you would hear the words they squared up on the baseball or they put good wood on the ball or that they hit the ball hard. That is all exactly the same as exit velocity which is basically just measuring what the players are saying is happening.

 

You want players who have a high exit velocity otherwise you are only going to get Juan Pierre's or Jim Gantner's of the world.

[homer]

I think launch angle is the thing that's changed. The other stuff, as nate said, was always there.

[Gorman19]

"Willfully obtuse" is saying guys cant bunt due to is it, a 2 mph increase in velocity?

 

As an ex catcher, its a hell of a lot harder to bunt a knuckle curve like Niekro threw or a curve ball like B blyleven or Darryl kile threw.

 

Proceed though.................. again, its not an all or nothing argument like you are making, its simply suggesting that a dreadful O should try and manufacture a run at times.........vs......... hoping its guys hitting .200ish striking out 40% of the time are going to finally, turn it around.

 

All homage to exit velocity and barrel up % though! Priceless on a team whose top 3 guys are making Gorman Thomas and Rob deer look like contact hitters at times

[trwi7]

As an ex catcher, its a hell of a lot harder to bunt a knuckle curve like Niekro threw or a curve ball like B blyleven or Darryl kile threw.

 

Maybe they can be nice to each other. Hitter tells pitcher he's planning to bunt. Pitcher tells hitter what he's planning to throw.

[owbc]

The solution I've seen that I think can work is to on one hand deaden the ball; make the same contact not produce as high exit velocity as before. Unlike increasing drag, it shouldn't have an effect on how pitches move. Deadening the ball some (Obviously not to deadball era levels!) will make selling out for fly balls less attractive, as flyballs with a low chance of leaving the park are awful. To compensate for that you need to make it so that more balls can be put into play. That could be lowering the mound, moving the mound back, or shrinking the strike zone a bit (or a combination of the three). The electronic strike zone could probably even aid with this; you'd expect more strike calls with it since it'll catch those pitches that touch just the very front or back of the 3D zone that are so easy for umpires to miss, so a slightly shrunken strike zone with robo umps might not be a huge change from the current one with humans calling balls and strikes.

 

Of course, a case could be made that there is no need for any "fix", that it's just a natural evolution of the game. But if something was to be done, I think a two-step process like this is what's needed.

 

I love this. As an additional advantage, increasing the contact percentage will speed up the pace of play. More balls hit in-play early in the count and less foul balls.

 

I do understand the desire to just let things evolve naturally, but the rules for professional baseball were written for players who were a lot less serious and skilled at baseball than the professionals are today. It is kind of amazing that they held up so well for over 100 years. I just wish MLB could be more proactive about it and not let the fans suffer through what is obviously a serious issue that will need correcting.

[sveumrules]

"Willfully obtuse" is saying guys cant bunt due to is it, a 2 mph increase in velocity?

 

As an ex catcher, its a hell of a lot harder to bunt a knuckle curve like Niekro threw or a curve ball like B blyleven or Darryl kile threw.

 

Proceed though.................. again, its not an all or nothing argument like you are making, its simply suggesting that a dreadful O should try and manufacture a run at times.........vs......... hoping its guys hitting .200ish striking out 40% of the time are going to finally, turn it around.

 

All homage to exit velocity and barrel up % though! Priceless on a team whose top 3 guys are making Gorman Thomas and Rob deer look like contact hitters at times

 

A 4 MPH increase over the last 18 years (89.0 in 2002 to 93.1 in 2020) means likely closer to 7-8 MPH over the last 40+ years, so no, not a 2 mph increase.

 

Darryl Kile's last year was 2002, the first year of Pitch FX. His average curveball was 71.8 MPH. The average curve ball in MLB for 2020 was 79.2 MPH.

 

I would guess there are zero pitchers in MLB who throw a curve ball similar to Niekro's or Blyleven's at this point & there were only 10 qualified starters & 3 qualified relievers with an average curveball velocity at 71.8 MPH or below in 2020, so not too many left like Kile either.