Doubles— lost art?

[DHonks]

I’ve been pondering this for over a year now, but I feel like as players have become obsessed with launch angle, or contact, and spin rates, one thing I think is missing is the players who hit line drive doubles all over the field. What’s the miss when shooting for an optimal launch? I think one thing we will see in the next couple of years he is a revival in hitters that it are 30 to 40 double hitters, hit for high average, and still manage 20+ homers

[pacopete4]

Does some of it have to do with shifts and outfields playing very deep. Cuts down the ability for doubles.

[DHonks]

Does some of it have to do with shifts and outfields playing very deep. Cuts down the ability for doubles.

 

I've pondered that too. One thing we struggle with is types of hits. It seemed the AL Central teams beat us to death with infield singles, while we rarely seem to collect them. It seems the NL Central teams hit lots of solid line-drive singles over the infield. We hit a lot of hard hit balls on the ground right at guys, in the air where OF run them down, or deep flies that were "just missed". We could use a modern-version of a Cirillo or an Overbay to provide some balance. Not dismissing launch angle and whatnot...they're huge things to analyze. But it seems the last few years we've had a lot of guys with more homers than doubles, and 10 years ago that wasn't common

[sveumrules]

This year there has been one double every 23.5 plate appearances versus one double every 21.4 plate appearances in 2019, one double every 22.0 plate appearances in 2018 & one double every 21.6 plate appearances in 2017, so definitely a pretty sharp drop.

 

Over the last 20 years it looks like peak doubles was around 2006-07 when it was one double every 20.1 plate appearances.

[JohnBriggs12]

Well if you have a shift on, the corner infielders can play tighter to the lines and take away the hard groundballs that get down the lines. Now it takes balls just inside the line to get into the corner. Margin has been taken away. I think teams use "no doubles defense" a lot more with outfielders deep and lines taken away too.

[logan82]

Random variance

[WV Brew]

Astro turf fields are largely gone. That was one big factor. Also, smaller parks where doubles and triples are harder to get.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

I miss doubles. Miss guys with gap power. Lyle Overbay is an all-time, kind of underrated favorite hitter.

[DHonks]

Part of the reason I asked was because some of those late 90s teams had a lot of doubles. Cirillo, Loretta, Nilsson, Jaha, Valentin, Vina, Burnitz, etc. They hit plenty of homers, but they also hit a lot of doubles. Sometimes the toughest rallies are the ones where a team has 3 doubles in an inning. Like you can understand it if they jack a homer. The Brewers have struggled to string together multi-hit innings for a couple years now. I haven't watched enough other teams, so it might be an MLB-wide issue as teams pursue exit velocity and launch angle exclusively. I know it was painful playing the AL Central teams this year and having then nickel and dime us to death with infield singles and bleeders.

[Jimbo]

Robin Yount consulted on the design of the current field and he wanted more triples. He thought the triple was the most exciting play in baseball. Hence, the configuration of the wall in the power alleys.

[MrTPlush]

Robin Yount consulted on the design of the current field and he wanted more triples. He thought the triple was the most exciting play in baseball. Hence, the configuration of the wall in the power alleys.

 

Was he responsible for the RF corner too? That is where the triples would come at Miller Park...especially before they added the little group area. Had to of been borderline deepest corner in baseball, even now the RF corner is pretty deep compared to other stadiums.

 

I know he created the walls in dead center...but hitting those is like hitting the lottery. If one does hit it good they end up circling the bases completely.

[JohnBriggs12]

Part of the reason I asked was because some of those late 90s teams had a lot of doubles. Cirillo, Loretta, Nilsson, Jaha, Valentin, Vina, Burnitz, etc. They hit plenty of homers, but they also hit a lot of doubles. Sometimes the toughest rallies are the ones where a team has 3 doubles in an inning. Like you can understand it if they jack a homer. The Brewers have struggled to string together multi-hit innings for a couple years now. I haven't watched enough other teams, so it might be an MLB-wide issue as teams pursue exit velocity and launch angle exclusively. I know it was painful playing the AL Central teams this year and having then nickel and dime us to death with infield singles and bleeders.

 

Those Brewer teams had a much higher contact rate. Nilsson was a line drive gap hitter with one of the most beautiful swings of any Brewer player in history. His HR were accidental. Jaha had big time power but he also used the entire field and didn't strike out like power hitters of today. Cirillo and Loretta were line drive hitters as well. The 96 team was an offensive juggernaut with 304 doubles and 178 home runs. They had eleven guys with at least 15 doubles. Only two guys fanned over 100 times. They even hit 40 triples. They hit .279 as a team and scored 894 runs, even after dealing Vaughn at the deadline. Talk about fun to watch. Imagine what they would have done in Miller Park. Unfortunately the pitching staff was awful, and allowed 899 runs.

[tmwiese55]

I had the games on in the background yesterday and I remember someone being mentioned who had something like 10-13 HRs but only 2 doubles on the year. Something weird like that, seemed relevant to this talk. If I'm remembering correctly that is, maybe someone else caught it too.

 

ETA: Think I found it, Buxton had 13 HRs, 3 doubles.

[stoutdude04]

I had the games on in the background yesterday and I remember someone being mentioned who had something like 10-13 HRs but only 2 doubles on the year. Something weird like that, seemed relevant to this talk. If I'm remembering correctly that is, maybe someone else caught it too.

 

ETA: Think I found it, Buxton had 13 HRs, 3 doubles.

 

isn't Hiura similar this year?

[MrTPlush]

I had the games on in the background yesterday and I remember someone being mentioned who had something like 10-13 HRs but only 2 doubles on the year. Something weird like that, seemed relevant to this talk. If I'm remembering correctly that is, maybe someone else caught it too.

 

ETA: Think I found it, Buxton had 13 HRs, 3 doubles.

 

isn't Hiura similar this year?

 

Yes, almost as bad. 13 homers to 4 doubles.