Packers 2020 team discussion

[nodakfan17]

Rodgers TD passes: 48

JK Scott punts: 46

We now live in an age where teams go for it on fourth down more often. I'm sure it will happen more and more.

It’s bound to happen more often, but it’s still pretty darn impressive.

[sveumrules]

Derrick Henry is the first player since Leroy Kelly in 1967-68 to lead the league in rushing attempts, rushing yards & rushing touchdowns in consecutive seasons.

 

Against the Green Bay Packers in 2020 he rushed 23 times for 98 yards & no touchdowns.

[sveumrules]

The Packers didn't get Aaron Rodgers any help in the offseason & still somehow managed to score the most points in the NFL.

 

The Packers defense was on the field for the fewest amount of snaps of any unit in the NFL.

 

I don't believe either of these things just happened by accident, but rather are due to some degree of intentionality on the part of a pretty astute front office & coaching staff.

[pacopete4]

And having better players than most will give credit for.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The Packers didn't get Aaron Rodgers any help in the offseason & still somehow managed to score the most points in the NFL.

 

The Packers defense was on the field for the fewest amount of snaps of any unit in the NFL.

 

I don't believe either of these things just happened by accident, but rather are due to some degree of intentionality on the part of a pretty astute front office & coaching staff.

 

The help was already there in the form of development that fans never account for, similar to how they almost never account for regression. The Packers clearly saw a future for Tonyan or they don't claim him off waivers and tender him for two straight statistically unimpressive years. Scantling isn't everyone's favorite player but he's been a contributor and did seem to take a step toward being a big play speed option this year. Jenkins has become a nice lineman. You don't always have to sign big names to improve.

 

Plus, they did sign Funchess, who possibly could have been a nice depth addition, but it didn't work out with Covid.

[pacopete4]

NFC Teams vs. Other Playoff Teams:

 

Packers: 4-2

Rams: 4-2

Saints: 3-2

Seahawks: 2-2

Footballers: 1-4

Buccaneers: 1-5

Bears: 1-6

[sveumrules]

If we are assigning credit for Rodgers going from a pretty pedestrian season by his standards in 2019 to an MVP caliber season in 2020, what is your breakdown?

 

Mine would probably be something like (50%) year two in the scheme (30%) improved offensive line play (10% each) emergence of Tonyan/drafting Love putting yet another chip on Rodgers shoulder

[homer]

I would put the vast majority on 2nd year in the scheme for Rodgers and all the other guys on offense. There are so many times where dudes are running open by a wide margin in this scheme. It's tailor-made for a guy with a quick release like Rodgers. He rarely has to scramble and make something out of nothing which is all he did under McCarthy.

[pacopete4]

I think him buying into the system even more helped too. He went rogue far too often in the last years of MM. Or maybe that was by design. Either way, having him throw on a rhythm is deadly as it was on display this season.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I truly think one of the team's biggest reasons for drafting Love was that Rodgers didn't buy into the offensive philosophy last season, so in response, the Packers mitigated that threat by acquiring a potential replacement. But something happened between the draft, over quarantine, or over the summer that made Rodgers decide to buy into Lafleur's offense completely and wholeheartedly. I don't know if the Packers' drafting Love made Rodgers' see his own career mortality approaching, but he looks so much different this season, both on the field and off. He's more introspective, and more laid back. His body language on the field, especially when a teammate makes a mistake, is much more positive. He looks like he's never, ever under any sort of pressure on the field. Last year he appeared nervous on the field, rushing throws and getting happy feet on the pocket. That isn't happening this season. He has the look of a player who is simply playing for the moment, and is through worrying about the future.

[wallus]

With this offense and with a solid offensive line, Rodgers can play a long long time.

[adambr2]

After reading about how much of a problem fumbling has been for Tavon Austin in his career I am already ready to move on. Austin has fumbled TWENTY THREE times in his NFL career. Think of how little he touches the ball as a role player compared to high usage starters, and yet he puts the ball on the turf that much.

 

I'm sorry, that is a terrible fit for this team. We don't need a flashy gamebreaking return man. We literally just need a guy who can put his hand up and catch the ball.

 

The most likely we won't be playing in the Super Bowl is if we beat ourselves.

[FVBrewerFan]

He has 23 fumbles???? Does that even include muffs? That is an unfathomable number of fumbles per touch. Yea, I will skip the ceiling and take the floor of fair catcges and no turnovers.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

After reading about how much of a problem fumbling has been for Tavon Austin in his career I am already ready to move on. Austin has fumbled TWENTY THREE times in his NFL career. Think of how little he touches the ball as a role player compared to high usage starters, and yet he puts the ball on the turf that much.

 

I'm sorry, that is a terrible fit for this team. We don't need a flashy gamebreaking return man. We literally just need a guy who can put his hand up and catch the ball.

 

The most likely we won't be playing in the Super Bowl is if we beat ourselves.

 

Hopefully Ervin will be back in a couple weeks, so it's a moot point.

[CheezWizHed]

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I truly think one of the team's biggest reasons for drafting Love was that Rodgers didn't buy into the offensive philosophy last season, so in response, the Packers mitigated that threat by acquiring a potential replacement. But something happened between the draft, over quarantine, or over the summer that made Rodgers decide to buy into Lafleur's offense completely and wholeheartedly. I don't know if the Packers' drafting Love made Rodgers' see his own career mortality approaching, but he looks so much different this season, both on the field and off. He's more introspective, and more laid back. His body language on the field, especially when a teammate makes a mistake, is much more positive. He looks like he's never, ever under any sort of pressure on the field. Last year he appeared nervous on the field, rushing throws and getting happy feet on the pocket. That isn't happening this season. He has the look of a player who is simply playing for the moment, and is through worrying about the future.

 

I think Rodger's "buy-in" last year is massively overblown - even to the point of pure media speculation and click-bait level reporting.

 

Team building takes time to get everyone on the same page. Any big shake-up is going to go through a period of Forming-Storming-Norming-Performing (as a manager, I've been trained in this about a dozen times). Last year, we were obviously in the first two or three phases - polite getting to know each other (Forming) and less polite jockeying for your role on the team (Storming) - maybe everyone getting used to their roles (Norming).

 

But there was a recent article where Rodgers shared how last summer, he, MLF, and Hackett got together and talked about what worked, what didn't, why they didn't, what they liked, etc... That is a very "storming" activity. Rodgers credited a better understanding of MLF's system and WHY things were being done a certain way as a major difference between this year and last. Personally, I'm also the type of person that doesn't do well unless I understand the big picture of what my team is doing and why. It isn't that you don't buy in, but the level of understanding enables that type of person to function much better.

 

For example, I was working a college job installing computer and telephone cable. I worked for a team lead that gave basic instructions for me to go do. But I always had to go back to him for the next task when done. My boss said I was the lowest performing person he had among those doing the same type of work. One day, my team lead was out sick, and my boss just told me to finish off one particular room. That day, my team did twice as much work then we normally accomplished. My boss was stunned and asked me what the difference was...I simply said that I understood the bigger picture of what we were doing and I didn't need to come ask for my next task all the time. I was treated differently after that.

 

Personally, I think Rodgers, MLF, and Hackett all got on the same page and learned how to work together this past summer and the team has obviously been in the "Performing" stage of team building.

[HiAndTight]

 

I think Rodger's "buy-in" last year is massively overblown - even to the point of pure media speculation and click-bait level reporting.

 

Team building takes time to get everyone on the same page. Any big shake-up is going to go through a period of Forming-Storming-Norming-Performing (as a manager, I've been trained in this about a dozen times). Last year, we were obviously in the first two or three phases - polite getting to know each other (Forming) and less polite jockeying for your role on the team (Storming) - maybe everyone getting used to their roles (Norming).

 

But there was a recent article where Rodgers shared how last summer, he, MLF, and Hackett got together and talked about what worked, what didn't, why they didn't, what they liked, etc... That is a very "storming" activity. Rodgers credited a better understanding of MLF's system and WHY things were being done a certain way as a major difference between this year and last. Personally, I'm also the type of person that doesn't do well unless I understand the big picture of what my team is doing and why. It isn't that you don't buy in, but the level of understanding enables that type of person to function much better.

 

For example, I was working a college job installing computer and telephone cable. I worked for a team lead that gave basic instructions for me to go do. But I always had to go back to him for the next task when done. My boss said I was the lowest performing person he had among those doing the same type of work. One day, my team lead was out sick, and my boss just told me to finish off one particular room. That day, my team did twice as much work then we normally accomplished. My boss was stunned and asked me what the difference was...I simply said that I understood the bigger picture of what we were doing and I didn't need to come ask for my next task all the time. I was treated differently after that.

 

Personally, I think Rodgers, MLF, and Hackett all got on the same page and learned how to work together this past summer and the team has obviously been in the "Performing" stage of team building.

 

 

Rodgers was honest about his disappointment in the drafting of Jordan Love.

He was honest about it taking him a little while to buy in and fully understand Matt LaFluer's offense.

 

So when he says he doesn't need motivation in the form of Jordan Love, I believe him. That and the fact that you don't become one of the greatest to ever do something...whatever that thing may be if you rely that heavily on outside motivators.

 

I think most of us expected that there would be a bit of a learning curve for Aaron Rodgers. I think some might be a little surprised about just how big of a jump they would be able to take in year two with virtually the same offense coming back.

 

Rodgers has talked at length early in the season about looking back at what he could improve upon. Physically, the most obvious seems to be him throwing with his feet under him. He's still capable of throwing from every angle and on the run, but it appeared that he became too comfortable or reliant on that last year.

 

Another obvious difference is him just taking that sure thing. Too often it appears he passed up that TE in the flat for 10 yards and looked for the big play, held the ball too long, and then threw it away or had to try and make a play after the receivers broke off their routes. THAT is a big area he's credited LaFleur and Hackett, and Rodgers also said during those sessions in which they talked, he understood better what they were trying to accomplish.

 

You obviously want big plays, but MLF's offense is built on being in a rhythm. One play building off another. The main play is the outside zone. Pre-snap motion freezes the defense, you can run it, you can run the jet sweep, or you can run play action off of it and that's worked great all year(you can only do that if you have a good running game as you can see how the Rams offense really dipped last year without Gurley and even this year without a dominant running game). So exactly what you're talking about, Rodgers understanding the why...which he again, has said is important to him. Just telling him what to do probably wasn't going to work great at this point in his career. He needed to build some trust and he's obviously done that.

 

And Rodgers has also talked about all the meditation and trying to get his mind right and being in a good place and made some references to a renewed emphasis on having the right people around him.

 

So I think there are a lot of reasons why he's excelling. A natural progression, Rodgers being a big enough person to see his flaws and working to fix some sloppy habits he'd gotten into, and the biggest is just a full understanding of the offense and him being on the same page with his WR's, TE's, RB's, the OL...and that's a credit to the leaders, Rodgers, Hackett and LaFleur.

 

Now, 3 more W's or we haven't really done anything.

[HiAndTight]

If we are assigning credit for Rodgers going from a pretty pedestrian season by his standards in 2019 to an MVP caliber season in 2020, what is your breakdown?

 

Mine would probably be something like (50%) year two in the scheme (30%) improved offensive line play (10% each) emergence of Tonyan/drafting Love putting yet another chip on Rodgers shoulder

 

 

60 pct on it being year 2 in the offense. MLF runs the same scheme that Shannahan and McVeigh run and in their second years, they've both broken out in a big way.

 

20 pct on Rodgers. Him deciding to go back and self-scout and work on his mechanics and getting the ball out on time.

 

10 pct on our young guys developing. MVS, Tonyan, Lazard, St. Brown, and their backs.

 

10 pct good luck. We've been mostly healthy and when guys have gone down, others have stepped up.

 

 

I don't actually know if the OL has improved or if we've just got this offense down better and aren't relying on them to pass protect for as long. Maybe Turner got better, but not better than Bulaga from last year IMO. I think we had good OL play, but our offense wasn't able to get going last year and to get the defense guessing enough so that our OL could really impose their will and so that our play-calling couldn't make their jobs easier. But I don't know, all I can see is the stats.

 

 

That said, Stenavich has done an outstanding job. Patrick has been ready to go, Wagner has been better than last year and Turner has been much better. Runyan performed well in his limited snaps. And Jenkins just keeps getting better. Linsley and Bahk were about as reliable as you could possibly ask for. So maybe I'm underrating them, it's just hard for me to quantify the impact they've had.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I think there is also a big advantage this year's Packers team has with no or very few fans in stadiums, and it allows an experienced QB like Rodgers to dissect what the defense is doing AND effectively communicate that with the rest of the offense before the snap - One thing I think they've done a great job with this season is improving the tempo of getting plays called early and allows Rodgers to make adjustments at the line as needed and also tinker around with hard counts to keep the defensive line from getting good jumps off the ball. A good offensive line never having to worry about being slow off the ball due to crowd noise really helps keep Rodgers upright, too.

 

In general, scoring is up a full two points per team per game compared to 2019 across the NFL - that is significant.

[OldHeidelberg]

Rodgers, Lindsey, Bak, and Adams first team AP all pro. Alexander and Z second team. That's 5 straight for Bak, he has to be approaching HOF status, something we haven't had a lot of in the last 25+ year run.

[PeaveyFury]

How how how is Jaire not 1st team? That's straight-up kooky dooks.

[HiAndTight]

How how how is Jaire not 1st team? That's straight-up kooky dooks.

 

At that point, it's kinda just preference.

 

Howard had 9 picks this year and he was a lockdown CB. Not a Peters type ballhawk.

 

And Ramsey is a stud who reminds me a lot of Charles Woodson with regard to how physical he plays.

 

I wouldn't trade Jaire for either though. I love the swagger that Jaire brings to the defense, his confidence, the way he just keeps getting better.

 

 

Jaire Alexander is going to be a very very wealthy man in short order.

[CheezWizHed]

I wasn't sure who beat him but I assumed the reason Jaire didn't get there was INTs.

[HiAndTight]

I wasn't sure who beat him but I assumed the reason Jaire didn't get there was INTs.

 

 

Yeah, but even with the Picks, Howard should have made it. Ramsey's the one who Jaire should have bumped off.

 

PFF, for what it's worth, has Jaire as one of the biggest snubs.

[HiAndTight]

PFF FA projections;

 

#16-Linsley leaves for the Chargers for for 3/33 with just 10 SB.

44th-Jones to the Dolphins for 4/46 and 15.5 SB(25 fully guaranteed)

Kevin King not listed among the top 100.

 

 

And while the Packers let two stars walk away for pretty reasonable prices,

Prediction: Packers sign Fuller for five years, $87.5 million ($17.5M APY): $25 million signing bonus (generally all the Packers guarantee).

 

If we're spending nearly 90 million over 5 years, I'd much rather see Allen Robinson(who I think is a very similar WR'er to Adams) or...better yet, just sign the two studs we have on offense that are leaving.

 

 

But without going back into the whole salary cap debate, I imagine there are very few people buying this type of investment in a WR'er while letting Jones and Linsley walk for what are very affordable salaries in an average year.

[pacopete4]

Jake Kumerow release by the Saints. Glad the front office is in charge and not our whiny fan base.