Packers 2020 team discussion

[LouisEly]

 

Name the improvements to the Packers from 2020 draft to the 2020 team? So far the biggest I would say is udfa Barnes. So still stands the draft class has not improved the 2020 team. AJ Dillon managed 5 snaps on offense after Williams left. 1 rush. That's not exactly showing much confidence by MLF towards using him. The impact Justin Jefferson has made for the Vikings his rookie year is I dont know 20? 40? 50? times more impact than GB's 2020 draft class on the 2020 team. Argument still immensely valid.

Good teams draft players a year or two before they need them. The point was that the improvements were already on the roster and acquired in 2019 and 2018. Gary, Savage, Keke, Lazard, Tonyan, MVS were who they were counting on for improvements.

[brewcrewdue80]

 

I don’t know how true this is. Most “experts” picked the Vikings to win the North. A ton complained about after our draft about how we did nothing to improve from last season. Let’s just put it this way, there are a lot of people that won’t own up to their lousy predictions.

 

Name the improvements to the Packers from 2020 draft to the 2020 team? So far the biggest I would say is udfa Barnes. So still stands the draft class has not improved the 2020 team. AJ Dillon managed 5 snaps on offense after Williams left. 1 rush. That's not exactly showing much confidence by MLF towards using him. The impact Justin Jefferson has made for the Vikings his rookie year is I dont know 20? 40? 50? times more impact than GB's 2020 draft class on the 2020 team. Argument still immensely valid.

Congrats to the Vikings who had the chance to draft Jefferson because either they were worse than the Packers last year or because their previous star receiver forced his way out of town, I can’t remember which. Of the 36 rookie starters, 17 were gone before the Packers picked. By the time Dillon, who you mentioned, was picked, 10 were left, almost exclusively safeties and interior offensive linemen. Who that was available when Dillon was picked would have increased the Packers’ chance of winning the Super Bowl this year even .1%? Maybe Chinn? Onwenu has been good, but would he have gotten more playing time than Runyan has? It turns out there weren’t that many win-now options available.

#1 is the WR I wished for at the original pick. Chase Claypool. When moved up I assumed it was for Patrick Queen.

 

My response is asking Brew4u on doing nothing in the draft to improve from last season. What pick from the draft has improved GB from 2019?

 

Trying to through crow on people who complained about the selection is laughable because there isnt a position improved from 2019 by the draft for immediate impact. Last season it was Savage and Jenkins immediately improving the team from 2018 positions. Gary is coming around and you can say the draft should garnish an A already.

 

Ill wait for a response in the 2020 class improving GB at all this year from last year.

[PinaMadness]

I really don't think we have to worry about Arizona. The Bears are going to sneak into the 7th seed anyway.

[sveumrules]

Sure, the 2020 draft hasn't really improved the 2020 team at all, but the picks were pretty clearly made with 2021 forward in mind & we are still the #1 seed currently, so I guess I don't see how that is overly problematic.

[CheeseheadInQC]

#1 is the WR I wished for at the original pick. Chase Claypool. When moved up I assumed it was for Patrick Queen.

 

My response is asking Brew4u on doing nothing in the draft to improve from last season. What pick from the draft has improved GB from 2019?

 

Trying to through crow on people who complained about the selection is laughable because there isnt a position improved from 2019 by the draft for immediate impact. Last season it was Savage and Jenkins immediately improving the team from 2018 positions. Gary is coming around and you can say the draft should garnish an A already.

 

Ill wait for a response in the 2020 class improving GB at all this year from last year.

 

So basically this is all about the Love pick then? You couch it in being the overall draft and deride Dillon's production so far, but your only examples where they could have actually could have taken an immediate contributor are with the Love pick.

 

Also, haven't Ravens fans been complaining that Queen's primary skill so far seems to be getting to the wrong place very quickly?

 

If you disagree with the philosophy that led to the Love pick, fine, there are a lot of good arguments to be made on both sides of that one. My point is that absent that debate, a combination of talent and circumstance made it unlikely that the Packers were going to be significantly improved by the rest of this draft class no matter which positions they selected.

[brewcrewdue80]

#1 is the WR I wished for at the original pick. Chase Claypool. When moved up I assumed it was for Patrick Queen.

 

My response is asking Brew4u on doing nothing in the draft to improve from last season. What pick from the draft has improved GB from 2019?

 

Trying to through crow on people who complained about the selection is laughable because there isnt a position improved from 2019 by the draft for immediate impact. Last season it was Savage and Jenkins immediately improving the team from 2018 positions. Gary is coming around and you can say the draft should garnish an A already.

 

Ill wait for a response in the 2020 class improving GB at all this year from last year.

 

So basically this is all about the Love pick then? You couch it in being the overall draft and deride Dillon's production so far, but your only examples where they could have actually could have taken an immediate contributor are with the Love pick.

 

Also, haven't Ravens fans been complaining that Queen's primary skill so far seems to be getting to the wrong place very quickly?

 

If you disagree with the philosophy that led to the Love pick, fine, there are a lot of good arguments to be made on both sides of that one. My point is that absent that debate, a combination of talent and circumstance made it unlikely that the Packers were going to be significantly improved by the rest of this draft class no matter which positions they selected.

 

Glossed over the fact you asked on after the Dillon pick as I was focused on Brew4U's comments. About Love and Dillon, if we go the route where we pick Claypool at our pick 30, I would have the 4th to move up and take somebody higher than Dillon's pick. Or taking someone higher than Deguara with it. Or may e it'd just he Love but not costing the team a 4th. 2 picks used for somebody to stand on sidelines inactive watch and learn. Rodgers had 4years still tied to GB. Year 1 nearly complete 2picks-0snaps. Never forget a 4th rd pick is not on GBs roster to trade up for Love. Rather than huge reach by about all pre-draft resources you can find on Deguara that pick could have been used there on him.

[PeaveyFury]

Something I've been saying since May, one more time for emphasis: Just because you don't agree with what the team did in the draft last spring mean it was bad.

 

But, judging a draft before 2-3 years has gone by is probably bad.

 

And just because a guy wasn't 'projected' by online mock draft sites to go where they went doesn't automatically mean the team was wrong. I'd have thought that the front office would have earned a lot of benefit of the doubt with Jenkins and Savage by this point.

[HiAndTight]

Name the improvements to the Packers from 2020 draft to the 2020 team? So far the biggest I would say is udfa Barnes. So still stands the draft class has not improved the 2020 team. AJ Dillon managed 5 snaps on offense after Williams left. 1 rush. That's not exactly showing much confidence by MLF towards using him. The impact Justin Jefferson has made for the Vikings his rookie year is I dont know 20? 40? 50? times more impact than GB's 2020 draft class on the 2020 team. Argument still immensely valid.

Congrats to the Vikings who had the chance to draft Jefferson because either they were worse than the Packers last year or because their previous star receiver forced his way out of town, I can’t remember which. Of the 36 rookie starters, 17 were gone before the Packers picked. By the time Dillon, who you mentioned, was picked, 10 were left, almost exclusively safeties and interior offensive linemen. Who that was available when Dillon was picked would have increased the Packers’ chance of winning the Super Bowl this year even .1%? Maybe Chinn? Onwenu has been good, but would he have gotten more playing time than Runyan has? It turns out there weren’t that many win-now options available.

 

 

I'd say Gibson, but I'm with you on this argument in general. It's really foolish to be talking about a draft class while they're almost all still on the team and they just haven't gotten a chance to play yet.

[HiAndTight]

It's hard to complain with seven guys but Tonyan was robbed. Engram? Really?

 

50 more targets, 5 more catches and just ~25 more yards. Plus Tonyan is asked to do a lot more.

 

And Crosby...c'mon. You have to give SOME consideration not kicking in GB. Perfect this year on FG attempts, hit a 57 yarder two weeks ago in a big spot, hit a 51 yarder in the cold this past week that would have been good from 55-60.

 

But it's the Pro-Bowl. Let's see who makes the All Pro teams. Those are more important. I could see 3 maybe 4. Rodgers, Bahk, Adams and Alexander. Maybe Jenkins or Adams...but that's unlikely to me.

I have been a staunch supporter of Crosby for years, defending him against the people who for some reason think he's been incredibly average his entire career, but I agree with the Koo selection. He's been lights out for Atlanta. I ought to know. He's my fantasy kicker.

 

 

Well...his second game not in a dome and he shanks an easy chip shot with the game on the line. My man can't handle the elements!

[GAME05]

As bad as kickers have been the past few years I'll happily take an average kicker. Would much rather have a guy who's more consistent at 35 than a guy who's wild but can hit a few more at 50+.

 

I'd actually love for the FG posts to be brought in by a couple feet to make it a little more of a gamble. And since kickers have also gotten stronger, maybe also raise the bottom bar a few feet, too. Puts more value on an offense getting into the Red Zone as well as increases the number of 4th down tries.

[pacopete4]

Is Crosby average? Never seems to be. Other than one game, a few years ago now, he seems as steady as they come.

[PinaMadness]

Is Crosby average? Never seems to be. Other than one game, a few years ago now, he seems as steady as they come.

He's not. Outside of that game in Detroit and 2012, I was never nervous about him missing a field goal and wouldn't want any other kicker than him.

[adambr2]

Depends what time frame of reference/statistic and measure you use to evaluate him. I think he was average at one time but has improved to a higher level later on in his career.

[adambr2]

Is Crosby average? Never seems to be. Other than one game, a few years ago now, he seems as steady as they come.

He's not. Outside of that game in Detroit and 2012, I was never nervous about him missing a field goal and wouldn't want any other kicker than him.

 

I can agree with most of this, but Tucker is the best and most consistent kicker I've seen in my lifetime.

[patrickgpe]

Very impressed with Dillon tonight. I’m wondering how interested the packers will be in paying Jones. Next offseason they have to pay Alexander and probably savage the next. They gave bakhtiari a massive deal already this year.

 

I still hope they could resign Williams at a cheaper salary. He is a great pass catching rb, and Dillon is a beast who doesn’t seem to be great at that yet.

[CheezWizHed]

Very impressed with Dillon tonight. I’m wondering how interested the packers will be in paying Jones. Next offseason they have to pay Alexander and probably savage the next. They gave bakhtiari a massive deal already this year.

 

I still hope they could resign Williams at a cheaper salary. He is a great pass catching rb, and Dillon is a beast who doesn’t seem to be great at that yet.

 

Dillon had a couple of very nice catches tonight. One was a bad throw by Rodgers and he grabbed it off his shoestrings. A couple others were just nice hand-catches; he looked very natural there.

[HiAndTight]

Very impressed with Dillon tonight. I’m wondering how interested the packers will be in paying Jones. Next offseason they have to pay Alexander and probably savage the next. They gave bakhtiari a massive deal already this year.

 

I still hope they could resign Williams at a cheaper salary. He is a great pass catching rb, and Dillon is a beast who doesn’t seem to be great at that yet.

 

Dillon had a couple of very nice catches tonight. One was a bad throw by Rodgers and he grabbed it off his shoestrings. A couple others were just nice hand-catches; he looked very natural there.

 

 

He looked outstanding. If they don't bring back Jones...which I have no clue if they will or not, but if they don't, I do think they need to try and replace him. I think Dillon caught the ball well relative to his expectations. Williams catches the ball pretty well for a #2 back. Jones is an elite pass-catcher out of the backfield and can provide another look.

[GAME05]

Totally agree with that sentiment. There's a big value to having opposite-style backs whether that's going to be Jones or someone else.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Very impressed with Dillon tonight. I’m wondering how interested the packers will be in paying Jones. Next offseason they have to pay Alexander and probably savage the next. They gave bakhtiari a massive deal already this year.

 

I still hope they could resign Williams at a cheaper salary. He is a great pass catching rb, and Dillon is a beast who doesn’t seem to be great at that yet.

 

Dillon had a couple of very nice catches tonight. One was a bad throw by Rodgers and he grabbed it off his shoestrings. A couple others were just nice hand-catches; he looked very natural there.

 

Dillon had one catch for 5 yards on one target.

[sveumrules]

Very impressed with Dillon tonight. I’m wondering how interested the packers will be in paying Jones. Next offseason they have to pay Alexander and probably savage the next. They gave bakhtiari a massive deal already this year.

 

I still hope they could resign Williams at a cheaper salary. He is a great pass catching rb, and Dillon is a beast who doesn’t seem to be great at that yet.

 

Dillon had a couple of very nice catches tonight. One was a bad throw by Rodgers and he grabbed it off his shoestrings. A couple others were just nice hand-catches; he looked very natural there.

 

Dillon had one catch for 5 yards on one target.

 

Think Dillon had two that were wiped out by penalty too.

 

First was when Rodgers got pressured & barely got rid of it on 3rd down in Q1 but the LB was tangling with Bakthiari to keep the drive alive.

 

Other was later, maybe Q3, he was wide open & picked up 7 to set up 2nd & 3, but TEN had a guy offside so GB took the 1st & 5 instead.

[HiAndTight]

Totally agree with that sentiment. There's a big value to having opposite-style backs whether that's going to be Jones or someone else.

 

 

That's obviously true even in normal offenses, but in this offense, where your core play is that outside zone and you run maybe 50-60 pct of your offense of that...including play-action, a lot of screens and wheel routes designed to get the RB involved, I think it's even more important in the Packers offense.

 

Obviously, you can't blame the Packers for taking Dillon, but it's one of the reasons I really thought Gibson could be a great fit in this system.

 

The Packers are kinda getting to a place with their roster that they can really take some swings in this next draft(though I guess that's pretty much the definition of the Love pick). With the extra picks and so few holes...plus the potential that the roster expansion stays in place AND when you consider so many guys opted out this year, it's going to be a very interesting off-season and a very important one for the scouting dept.

 

I think with MLF's offense, they may place a similar emphasis on RB as they did on WR'er in McCarthy's.

[HiAndTight]

 

Other was later, maybe Q3, he was wide open & picked up 7 to set up 2nd & 3, but TEN had a guy offside so GB took the 1st & 5 instead.

 

 

Right. He showed decent hands tonight. That catch on the low throw showed he had nice hands...for a big guy.

 

It'd be incredible if they could get a full season with Jones and Dillon. I don't know how feasible that is though. Do they go the route of Nola and just kick the can down the road, do they put one of the tags on him and let him test the market(the transition tag would allow for that).

 

My guess is Jones is gonna test the market at this point unless they give him a Kamara like a deal...and I really doubt that's gonna happen. Not only due to the uncertainty of the cap next year but just because those deals are so hit or miss.

 

But the fact that they spent the better part of the season negotiating with him at the very least indicates they want him back pretty badly.

[igor67]

At least last night the biggest difference I saw was that Jones had better speed on the outside. That said I think this system I think helps to make effective backs, and I wouldn't mind saving the cap money and planning on spending a mid round pick next year to just keep cycling through guys.

[PeaveyFury]

I think the transition tag doesn’t really work for the Packers and Jones simply because another team is sure to give him a deal that the Packers simply can’t or won’t match. I maintain that a franchise tag is ideal if they can make the cap work, because I think we’d all be fine with Jones playing on one more one year deal. It’s not 2021 that scares me with Jones going forward, it’s the years after that.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I maintain that a franchise tag is ideal if they can make the cap work, because I think we’d all be fine with Jones playing on one more one year deal.

 

Yes, but I think it will be very difficult for that to work in this situation when the cap is likely to drop closer to $175M and the recent RB contracts would cause a franchise tag for Jones to eat up too much cap room on next year's roster.

 

As much as I'd like to hold onto Jones for another season in Green Bay, I just don't see it with him hiring Rosenhaus after whatever negotiations they've recently had broke down and what it would cost to franchise him. He's looking to get paid and rightfully so for any player in his prime - what sort of options might there be to tag and trade Jones to a team that would have cap room to give him a longterm deal? I think GB's best options are to attempt doing that, or simply let him walk and get the draft pick compensation moving on from him would provide.

 

Edit: One thing that might still happen over the next 1-2 offseasons is for the NFL and players' union to try and agree on a stopgap uncapped season or two until revenues stabilize post pandemic....not so much for the financial benefit of individual organizations/league (they're just fine longterm and they know it), but for the benefit of avoiding massive roster cuts and turnover of good veteran players so teams can get under dropping salary caps based on the current CBA rules. I'm not sure if that will happen as soon as this offseason (which would enable GB to keep Jones on a franchise tag), but it has to be on their radar - many teams will be hardpressed to get their rosters to $175M headed into next year, but if there's another drop in cap room for the 2022 season there are going to be very few who can stay under.