Packers 2020 team discussion

[ThisIsMyCrew]

They were an onsides kick screw up from going to a 2nd Super Bowl. And had Nick Collins not gotten hurt...

 

Nick Collins. Man. Every time he’s brought up, I think how much that set the team back. Play maker coming into his prime.

[nodakfan17]

FWIW, I think they’ve handled their last 2 stock sales well. Both times, they sold stock immediately after winning a championship and used the proceeds to improve Lambeau Field. By using the stock sales sparingly, they’ve ensured that the $250 pieces of paper remain desirable and by deploying them immediately after Super Bowl-winning seasons, they’ve maximized proceeds from the sales.

 

Fun Fact: Prior to the 1997 stock sale, the original stock shares split 1000:1, so a fan in 2011 would have to have spent $250,000 to have the voting power of the original shareholders. A few old Green Bay families probably still have enough voting power to hold seats on the Board and they purposely voted for the 1000:1 split so as to not dilute their influence on the organization.

[nodakfan17]

They were an onsides kick screw up from going to a 2nd Super Bowl. And had Nick Collins not gotten hurt...

 

Nick Collins. Man. Every time he’s brought up, I think how much that set the team back. Play maker coming into his prime.

There once was a YouTube video (probably long gone due to copyright infringement) that showed Collins’ Super Bowl interception set to My Heart Will Go On from Titanic. It brought tears to my eyes. Considering how the Packers’ defense sank without him, it seemed highly appropriate. What a player.

[pacopete4]

Have the Packers ever made an in-season trade for a player during the Rodgers era? That’s probably a source of angst for fans. I get that there may not be a good trade available every year, but once in a while?

 

Serious question, what mid season trades have propelled a team to a super bowl? Trying to rack my brain and can’t come up with anything.

[PinaMadness]

Have the Packers ever made an in-season trade for a player during the Rodgers era? That’s probably a source of angst for fans. I get that there may not be a good trade available every year, but once in a while?

 

Serious question, what mid season trades have propelled a team to a super bowl? Trying to rack my brain and can’t come up with anything.

I don't know, but Dunlap just might do it for for Seattle. In fact, I'd make them the NFC favorite right now.

[nodakfan17]

Have the Packers ever made an in-season trade for a player during the Rodgers era? That’s probably a source of angst for fans. I get that there may not be a good trade available every year, but once in a while?

 

Serious question, what mid season trades have propelled a team to a super bowl? Trying to rack my brain and can’t come up with anything.

First one that comes to mind: The 2017 Eagles traded a 4th round pick for Jay Ajayi who had rushed for 1,200 yards and 8 TDs in Miami the year prior. In 7 regular season games for the Eagles, he rushed for 408 yards on 70 attempts (5.8 YPC). He also had 57 rush yards in their Super Bowl win. I’m not looking for home runs - just upgrades at weak positions.

 

The 2016 Patriots also traded a 7th rounder for Kyle Van Noy mid-season and he subsequently started 51 games for the Patriots over the next 3.5 seasons (including 3 Super Bowls).

 

The 2015 Broncos added TE Vernon Davis for a 6th rounder.

[OldHeidelberg]

 

First off, you said "profits," not 'the business side of things, so please don't move the target.

 

I don't see these two things as different and I meant the same thing in both posts.

 

Second, if I recall, you've previously railed on the Titledown District here, with the admission that you haven't been there recently. Is that still the case? They're doing literally the same thing that the Cubs have done with Wrigleyville, which is a large part of the Cubs recent resurgence and success. There's nothing that can possibly viewed as negative, IMO, regarding the intention of making Lambeau a destination and revenue earning facility beyond 10 game days a year. How in the world can the Packers' situation on the field be HURT by their investments around/at the stadium?

 

You recall correctly and I admitted then that my thinking of it as Packer themed Mall of America was not entirely accurate. Still, activities for kids combined with entertainment/shops for adults is sort of what the MoA is. Isn't there sort of a corporate park planned as part of it? Nah, haven't been there since, went to 2 games last year but we park on the street on the other side of the stadium and I think they charge for a big tailgate party over there during games and I sort of avoid large, crowded, festivals as I get older. I used to love that sort of thing though. I live in La Crosse so going to Green Bay for anything but a game doesn't happen much. If they view making the playoffs as a successful season and that level success being key to TD profitability then it could hurt our SB hopes, hard to deny we seem to fall short, I will expand on that on your third point. I see nothing wrong with them using their profits to give back to the community, in fact that's what I think they should be doing. But I am pretty sure they view TD as a way to generate revenue and have said so, I don't think they want to lose money on it. I don't know, maybe the constant expansions are just simply that they have to spend the all the profits on something and they do keep that separate from football. But don't you think maybe someone was asleep at the wheel during the end of the TT/MM era?

 

Third, The NFL has a salary cap. The Packers, both this year and in the past, are within a couple of million dollars of the $200 million salary cap. What are they supposed to do to be more 'focused on winning?' Spend MORE money than allowed by the cap on players? They're likely going to spend virtually every penny of their cap room next year. Perhaps I'd buy your argument if they were routinely spending tens of millions of dollars less than the cap, but that is factually untrue.

 

You can go over the cap one year and take the hit the next through signing bonus and restructures. I am pretty sure Denver won a Super Bowl just a few years ago by doing that. Other teams have tried that and failed and ended up with some bad teams down the road. Packer fans talk about going all in to get Rodgers one more SB and I think this is generally what we are talking about. I don't think the Packers will ever do this and my point is that may be because they worry about it's impact on their investments. You clearly think this is a reach but we will have to agree to disagree and move on to today's game

 

And for the record I lived in Minneapolis for 12 years and never once went to MoA

[PeaveyFury]

You can go over the cap one year and take the hit the next through signing bonus and restructures. I am pretty sure Denver won a Super Bowl just a few years ago by doing that. Other teams have tried that and failed and ended up with some bad teams down the road. I don't think the Packers will ever do this and my point is that may be because they worry about it's impact on their investments.

 

They probably don't do it because it's flat-out not allowed. Not sure what you're basing your statement on, but it's simply not correct:

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1665623-how-does-the-salary-cap-work-in-the-nfl

 

The NFL uses a hard cap, meaning that no team is allowed to exceed the cap limit for any reason.

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/sports/nfl-salary-cap-rules-explained

 

The NFL utilizes a “hard cap,” meaning that teams can’t exceed the imposed upper limit.

[PeaveyFury]

 

First off, you said "profits," not 'the business side of things, so please don't move the target.

 

I don't see these two things as different and I meant the same thing in both posts.

 

If you see these two statements as the same thing, then I agree that we won't see eye to eye on this issue. 'Maximizing profits' implies cutting corners to save costs on payroll, the fan experience, etc. to directly result in a boost to the bottom line. Again, the Packers have literally never said or done anything that suggests this to be their focus. 'Focusing on the business side of things' is what the Packers should be doing alongside their on the field product- making sound financial decisions/capital investments to ensure the long-term viability and success of the team. Not the same thing.

 

 

 

Second, if I recall, you've previously railed on the Titledown District here, with the admission that you haven't been there recently. Is that still the case?

 

You recall correctly and I admitted then that my thinking of it as Packer themed Mall of America was not entirely accurate. Still, activities for kids combined with entertainment/shops for adults is sort of what the MoA is.

 

Wrigleyville is 110% a more accurate comparison. MoA is about retail/shopping, Wrigleyville/TTD is about both enhancing the gameday/weekend experience and creating stuff that draws fans in BEYOND game days.

 

Again, I truly do not understand how their investment in/around the stadium can be viewed as a negative in any way.

[OldHeidelberg]

You can go over the cap one year and take the hit the next through signing bonus and restructures. I am pretty sure Denver won a Super Bowl just a few years ago by doing that. Other teams have tried that and failed and ended up with some bad teams down the road. I don't think the Packers will ever do this and my point is that may be because they worry about it's impact on their investments.

 

They probably don't do it because it's flat-out not allowed. Not sure what you're basing your statement on, but it's simply not correct:

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1665623-how-does-the-salary-cap-work-in-the-nfl

 

The NFL uses a hard cap, meaning that no team is allowed to exceed the cap limit for any reason.

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/sports/nfl-salary-cap-rules-explained

 

The NFL utilizes a “hard cap,” meaning that teams can’t exceed the imposed upper limit.

 

They was I phrased it was incorrect but I think you know what I meant. If they were at the cap this past offseason and wanted to add a 10 million dollar player they could restructure Rodgers and convert his salary to bonus moving his cap hit to future years. This is likely what they are going to have to do this coming offseason if they want to bring any of their UFA's back. Am I wrong in this?

[pacopete4]

Have the Packers ever made an in-season trade for a player during the Rodgers era? That’s probably a source of angst for fans. I get that there may not be a good trade available every year, but once in a while?

 

Serious question, what mid season trades have propelled a team to a super bowl? Trying to rack my brain and can’t come up with anything.

First one that comes to mind: The 2017 Eagles traded a 4th round pick for Jay Ajayi who had rushed for 1,200 yards and 8 TDs in Miami the year prior. In 7 regular season games for the Eagles, he rushed for 408 yards on 70 attempts (5.8 YPC). He also had 57 rush yards in their Super Bowl win. I’m not looking for home runs - just upgrades at weak positions.

 

The 2016 Patriots also traded a 7th rounder for Kyle Van Noy mid-season and he subsequently started 51 games for the Patriots over the next 3.5 seasons (including 3 Super Bowls).

 

The 2015 Broncos added TE Vernon Davis for a 6th rounder.

 

Thanks for the list on this. I rarely pay attention to those trades as they don't seem to occur often. I will say, everyone clamored for Fuller this year and that would've been awful right about now. It'd be interesting to look at all the trades that occur that do little to nothing. It just feels like more teams would pull off these trades if they were more productive.

[PinaMadness]

I think you're going to see more and more of this happening in the near future. That's the way the game is evolving now.

[PeaveyFury]

They was I phrased it was incorrect but I think you know what I meant. If they were at the cap this past offseason and wanted to add a 10 million dollar player they could restructure Rodgers and convert his salary to bonus moving his cap hit to future years. This is likely what they are going to have to do this coming offseason if they want to bring any of their UFA's back. Am I wrong in this?

 

Honestly, I don't know what you meant- you stated that the Packers could be spending more money on salaries in a given year, which is factually incorrect. Regarding Rodgers, he already restructured his contract prior to this season and had only a $1.5 million base this year. There was no additional money there to free up in 2020. Going forward, they're tied in his current contract through the END of next year, when they're better off trading or releasing him than keeping him. Perhaps that's why they used a high draft pick to have a contingency plan for when that becomes a choice they have to weigh....

[OldHeidelberg]

They was I phrased it was incorrect but I think you know what I meant. If they were at the cap this past offseason and wanted to add a 10 million dollar player they could restructure Rodgers and convert his salary to bonus moving his cap hit to future years. This is likely what they are going to have to do this coming offseason if they want to bring any of their UFA's back. Am I wrong in this?

 

Honestly, I don't know what you meant- you stated that the Packers could be spending more money on salaries in a given year, which is factually incorrect. Regarding Rodgers, he already restructured his contract prior to this season and had only a $1.5 million base this year. There was no additional money there to free up in 2020. Going forward, they're tied in his current contract through the END of next year, when they're better off trading or releasing him than keeping him. Perhaps that's why they used a high draft pick to have a contingency plan for when that becomes a choice they have to weigh....

 

I thought I made it pretty clear what I meant in my last post and I did review your links before I posted. I am just going to drop it. Go Pack

[nodakfan17]

Thanks for the list on this. I rarely pay attention to those trades as they don't seem to occur often. I will say, everyone clamored for Fuller this year and that would've been awful right about now. It'd be interesting to look at all the trades that occur that do little to nothing. It just feels like more teams would pull off these trades if they were more productive.

No problem. I’m not a ‘pound the table’ type of guy, but I know it’s really hard to get to 6 wins by Week 8 AND be healthy. So when the Packers find themselves in that situation (like they have in each of the past 2 years), I wish they’d be a little more opportunistic. They might not ever be in that position again with Rodgers.

[PeaveyFury]

Thanks for the list on this. I rarely pay attention to those trades as they don't seem to occur often. I will say, everyone clamored for Fuller this year and that would've been awful right about now. It'd be interesting to look at all the trades that occur that do little to nothing. It just feels like more teams would pull off these trades if they were more productive.

No problem. I’m not a ‘pound the table’ type of guy, but I know it’s really hard to get to 6 wins by Week 8 AND be healthy. So when the Packers find themselves in that situation (like they have in each of the past 2 years), I wish they’d be a little more opportunistic. They might not ever be in that position again with Rodgers.

 

I think part of what makes this problematic was that the guy the fans were 'pounding the table' for at the deadline is now suspended for PEDs and would have done little to help Green Bay in the end. Most times the Front Office DOES know better than the fans do.

[PinaMadness]

Anyone still want Gregg Williams as DC next year?

[adambr2]

Got to figure we are starting to think about a Davante Adams extension. He is a FA after 20-21 and is woefully underpaid relative to his peers.

[balsamlaker]

I was never a big Gregg Williams fan, but have been critical of Pettine in the past. With that said, I have been impressed this year with the improvement in not allowing as many "big plays". I think coming into the Eagles game the Packers were third in fewest "big plays" given up. After the second return touchdown of the year, Pettine would not be my "coach on the hot seat" on the staff, though.

[HiAndTight]

Anyone still want Gregg Williams as DC next year?

 

 

Yes...

 

Nothing's changed my opinion on Pettine.

[adambr2]

I wouldn't retain either of Pettine or Mennenga for 2021.

[Outlander]

With Titletown being discussed I have to say it is great. Had a youth hockey game near Green Bay Sunday and went there afterwards to play football, go on the playground and skate on the rink while watching/hearing the Packers game. I'm sure the Packers had profit in mind but it is a family friendly area that doesn't have to cost much or anything at all.

[pacopete4]

The 2019 Packers Draft Class is becoming more and more interesting as we play on.

 

Round One

#12 overall: Rashan Gary, EDGE, Michigan

#21 overall: Darnell Savage, Jr., S, Maryland (acquired from Seahawks for picks #30, #114, & #118)

#30 overall (acquired from Saints on 2018 draft-day trade) — traded

 

Round Two

#12 (#44 overall): Elgton Jenkins, G, Mississippi State

 

Round Three

#11 (#75 overall): Jace Sternberger, TE, Texas A&M

 

Round Four

#12 (#114 overall) — traded

#16 (#118 overall — acquired from Washington for S Ha Ha Clinton-Dix) — traded

 

Round Five

#12 (#150 overall): Kingsley Keke, DT, Texas A&M

 

The Packers may end up hitting on their first five picks on the 2019 NFL Draft. All have shown flashes of being good football players. Lots can be said about these players but Gary and Savage are starting to look like first rounds talents. Jenkins is a complete stud due to his versatility alone. Sternberger hasn't been given many opportunities but the flashes are there. And Keke is taking a jump in his second year.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

The 2019 Packers Draft Class is becoming more and more interesting as we play on.

 

Round One

#12 overall: Rashan Gary, EDGE, Michigan

#21 overall: Darnell Savage, Jr., S, Maryland (acquired from Seahawks for picks #30, #114, & #118)

#30 overall (acquired from Saints on 2018 draft-day trade) — traded

 

Round Two

#12 (#44 overall): Elgton Jenkins, G, Mississippi State

 

Round Three

#11 (#75 overall): Jace Sternberger, TE, Texas A&M

 

Round Four

#12 (#114 overall) — traded

#16 (#118 overall — acquired from Washington for S Ha Ha Clinton-Dix) — traded

 

Round Five

#12 (#150 overall): Kingsley Keke, DT, Texas A&M

 

The Packers may end up hitting on their first five picks on the 2019 NFL Draft. All have shown flashes of being good football players. Lots can be said about these players but Gary and Savage are starting to look like first rounds talents. Jenkins is a complete stud due to his versatility alone. Sternberger hasn't been given many opportunities but the flashes are there. And Keke is taking a jump in his second year.

 

Plus Hollman is a core special teamer who has shown flashes this year in his time filling in at CB. Summers is a core special teamer as well, although he didn't look good when filling in at ILB. And Dexter Williams is at least still kicking around, although he got hurt in his one game active against the 49ers.

[CheezWizHed]

I think Hollman has a real shot to be a starter in the league too. He came in with good measurables and from a smaller program. He has filled in this year without any big gaffes. I think he'll be one of those guys that will take a couple years of development but at least will be a good backup or potential starter.