Haines

[Soupbone]

Ok. WRC plus.

Brewers 2018. 99

Brewers 2019. 97

Brewers 2020. 89

 

Notice a trend?

[TigerUppercut]

Ok. WRC plus.

Brewers 2018. 99

Brewers 2019. 97

Brewers 2020. 89

 

Notice a trend?

 

Using 2020 as some sort of reliable data point to make a decision is absolutely absurd and in my mind immediately kills any modicum of credibility you may have had in initiating the discusion. That said, and as Brew4U noted, now list the players he's worked with in those years. When you're done doing that, let's talk about your expectations for those players coming into the season vs where they landed since results are all you use.

 

Talk about the very definition of expecting chicken salad out of chicken Sh--.

[pacopete4]

Hell, 89 is looking pretty good considering that roster we saw this summer. Give the man a raise. And that’s with Hiura and Yelich being duds.

[Soupbone]

Well Sveum said I should use wrc plus.

[brewcrewdue80]

If Haines keeps his job, Counsell must really have faith in him as of the 11 players with over 100 at bats this year, only Arcia and Gyorko had minimal improvements offensively compared to 2019. If you say 2020 was a shortened year and it doesn't matter, look back at 2019 (Haines first year). Moose and Braun saw some improvements over 2018, but you also saw players like Cain, Gamel, Shaw, Aguilar, Perez, etc. decline from 2018.

 

This above.

Aguilar close to his normal range in 2020. Shaw better. Cain had bad year. Now Hiura, Yelich, Narvaez, Garcia, Smoak garbage seasons vs norm expectations.

 

Look, y'all can say how much do you think a hitting coach really matters, I think it's an a game plan on what a Starter will throw on sequencing. How many times did we watch pitches right down the middle be taken for strike? Then swing at garbage? That to me is Haines saying on 1-1 he's going to throw a breaking ball in the dirt, anything belt high take because its going to fall out of the strike zone. Maybe that can explain Hiura swinging through FBs down middle plate because the "Haines magic Scouting Report" says this situation a pitch is going to break. Let's talk about the pathetic 3b or 2b with 0 outs. There are guys clearly struggling and not once can he call for the bunt to move a player over, or even suicide squeeze. Just think it's time to move on after such a poor showing among many statistics a team can have.

If it cant all be blamed on Haines cuz he does nothing impactful really for hitting then, replacing him isnt a loss. Just bring the next placeholder who does nothing if that is true. You can always use an excuse that a slump is the adjusting on hitting philosophy that guy brings. Heck give the job to Braun while picking up his option. Interim title with the open search for 2022.

[HiAndTight]

Ok. WRC plus.

Brewers 2018. 99

Brewers 2019. 97

Brewers 2020. 89

 

Notice a trend?

 

Yes...the only two years from which anything substantial can be gleaned were nearly identical.

 

I'm sure there are people who are looking at the impact he had in Chicago...in Miami helping develop numerous good hitters(Yelich, Stanton, Realmuto, Ozuna among others) and they'll factor that into how much a 60 game sample size should matter.

 

Maybe that'll result in him being let go, maybe it won't. I just really disagree with the idea that you can tell how good a hitting coach is based on how the entire team hit over a small sample size.

 

Surely he's not to be blamed for Hiura and Yelich(though he may deserve some credit for helping to develop Yelich).

 

I doubt he taught either to do something different than he taught them last year.

[HiAndTight]

If Haines keeps his job, Counsell must really have faith in him as of the 11 players with over 100 at bats this year, only Arcia and Gyorko had minimal improvements offensively compared to 2019. If you say 2020 was a shortened year and it doesn't matter, look back at 2019 (Haines first year). Moose and Braun saw some improvements over 2018, but you also saw players like Cain, Gamel, Shaw, Aguilar, Perez, etc. decline from 2018.

 

This above.

Aguilar close to his normal range in 2020. Shaw better. Cain had bad year. Now Hiura, Yelich, Narvaez, Garcia, Smoak garbage seasons vs norm expectations.

 

Look, y'all can say how much do you think a hitting coach really matters, I think it's an a game plan on what a Starter will throw on sequencing. How many times did we watch pitches right down the middle be taken for strike? Then swing at garbage? That to me is Haines saying on 1-1 he's going to throw a breaking ball in the dirt, anything belt high take because its going to fall out of the strike zone. Maybe that can explain Hiura swinging through FBs down middle plate because the "Haines magic Scouting Report" says this situation a pitch is going to break. Let's talk about the pathetic 3b or 2b with 0 outs. There are guys clearly struggling and not once can he call for the bunt to move a player over, or even suicide squeeze. Just think it's time to move on after such a poor showing among many statistics a team can have.

If it cant all be blamed on Haines cuz he does nothing impactful really for hitting then, replacing him isnt a loss. Just bring the next placeholder who does nothing if that is true. You can always use an excuse that a slump is the adjusting on hitting philosophy that guy brings. Heck give the job to Braun while picking up his option. Interim title with the open search for 2022.

 

 

How often is the hitting coach the one who decides when they try to move guys over with a sac bunt or a suicide squeeze?

I've never known of a team that has the hitting coach putting guys in motion of calling for them to bunt.

As for your theory with regard to Hiura's struggles...what happened last year? Do you suppose that Haines knew what he was doing last year but didn't this year? To me, this is just guessing what Haines is saying with no real data beyond "well, Hiura looks bad, so the coach must be telling him when to swing."

[TURBO]

So you guys want to keep roling with Haines then?

 

*sigh*

[balsamlaker]

There is no doubt that hitting coaches likely take the blame more than they deserve. With that said, lets not give Haines too much credit, either. In the Marlins system, he was a hittting coach for one year (2008) before becoming a minor league manager. In Chicago he was assistant hitting coach for one year - a year in which Chili Davis was fired and Haines was not promoted. Part of the reason the Brewers won the NL Central in 2018 was the second half decline of the Cubs hitters.

[sveumrules]

So you guys want to keep roling with Haines then?

 

*sigh*

 

I won't care if Haines is retained or let go, because I don't have enough information about how he fulfills his responsibilities to have a strong position one way or another. I don't believe any message board poster is privy to that intel.

 

The front office is full of people more intelligent than me who do have access to that information, so I will be AOK with whatever they decide.

[markedman5]

Anyone who blames the hitting coach for not putting the bunt sign on should probably just refrain from.posting for awhile..........

[balsamlaker]

Analysts have gotten rid of the sacrifice bunts and stolen base attempts, not hitting coaches. If the DH becomes a permanent component in the NL, we may be explaining to future generations what a sacrifice bunt even is.

[jerichoholicninja]

If Haines keeps his job, Counsell must really have faith in him as of the 11 players with over 100 at bats this year, only Arcia and Gyorko had minimal improvements offensively compared to 2019. If you say 2020 was a shortened year and it doesn't matter, look back at 2019 (Haines first year). Moose and Braun saw some improvements over 2018, but you also saw players like Cain, Gamel, Shaw, Aguilar, Perez, etc. decline from 2018.

 

This above.

Aguilar close to his normal range in 2020. Shaw better. Cain had bad year. Now Hiura, Yelich, Narvaez, Garcia, Smoak garbage seasons vs norm expectations.

 

Look, y'all can say how much do you think a hitting coach really matters, I think it's an a game plan on what a Starter will throw on sequencing. How many times did we watch pitches right down the middle be taken for strike? Then swing at garbage? That to me is Haines saying on 1-1 he's going to throw a breaking ball in the dirt, anything belt high take because its going to fall out of the strike zone. Maybe that can explain Hiura swinging through FBs down middle plate because the "Haines magic Scouting Report" says this situation a pitch is going to break. Let's talk about the pathetic 3b or 2b with 0 outs. There are guys clearly struggling and not once can he call for the bunt to move a player over, or even suicide squeeze. Just think it's time to move on after such a poor showing among many statistics a team can have.

If it cant all be blamed on Haines cuz he does nothing impactful really for hitting then, replacing him isnt a loss. Just bring the next placeholder who does nothing if that is true. You can always use an excuse that a slump is the adjusting on hitting philosophy that guy brings. Heck give the job to Braun while picking up his option. Interim title with the open search for 2022.

 

Scouting reports are made by the front office. All the hitting coach does is communicate it to the players.

 

And as for the bolded part, you probably just described 95% of the hitters in baseball. That's not solely a Brewers issue.

[brewmann04]

Haines should be replaced but didn't he have help with another coach in Cruz?

[brewcrewdue80]

Anyone who blames the hitting coach for not putting the bunt sign on should probably just refrain from.posting for awhile..........

 

 

You're Right. Bye

[Devinep]

Hell, 89 is looking pretty good considering that roster we saw this summer. Give the man a raise. And that’s with Hiura and Yelich being duds.

 

You’re saying you expected Yelich, Hiura, Narvaez, Holt, Sogard, Smoak, and Garcia to post far below their career norms for production?

[pacopete4]

Hell, 89 is looking pretty good considering that roster we saw this summer. Give the man a raise. And that’s with Hiura and Yelich being duds.

 

You’re saying you expected Yelich, Hiura, Narvaez, Holt, Sogard, Smoak, and Garcia to post far below their career norms for production?

 

I'm saying for what I witnessed this summer, 89 seems like 120. It felt more like a 50 for most of the summer.

[Devinep]

Hell, 89 is looking pretty good considering that roster we saw this summer. Give the man a raise. And that’s with Hiura and Yelich being duds.

 

You’re saying you expected Yelich, Hiura, Narvaez, Holt, Sogard, Smoak, and Garcia to post far below their career norms for production?

 

I'm saying for what I witnessed this summer, 89 seems like 120. It felt more like a 50 for most of the summer.

 

It was pretty unwatchable

[Devinep]

I guess if a hitting coach isn’t responsible for a ton of guys hitting so much worse than they have/were expected to, then how else can you judge if a hitting coach is helping guys or not?

[CheezWizHed]

I guess if a hitting coach isn’t responsible for a ton of guys hitting so much worse than they have/were expected to, then how else can you judge if a hitting coach is helping guys or not?

 

I'm guessing by seeing how he works with players and the suggestions he makes. You know... things fans rarely get to see. Too many variables in the results at the plate to directly point at the hitting coach, unfortunately. Thankfully, fans don't hire/fire the coaches anyway.

[Devinep]

I guess if a hitting coach isn’t responsible for a ton of guys hitting so much worse than they have/were expected to, then how else can you judge if a hitting coach is helping guys or not?

 

I'm guessing by seeing how he works with players and the suggestions he makes. You know... things fans rarely get to see. Too many variables in the results at the plate to directly point at the hitting coach, unfortunately. Thankfully, fans don't hire/fire the coaches anyway.

 

Sure, but my point is that his suggestions and work clearly weren’t effective

[sveumrules]

The Cardinals hit a Brewers-esque 234/323/371 in the pandemic altered season.

 

Hitting Coach Jeff Albert has been retained by St. Louis for the 2021 season.

[balsamlaker]

It is interesting the Brewers have not made an announcement one way or another regarding the coaching staff. Over the last few years, an announcement has tended to come either way a week or two after the team finished playing.

[Eddiehitsthefoulpole]

I know we had some guys seriously underachieve, but, overall, we did not field a very strong line-up this year.

[Soupbone]

I know. Small sample. But Brewer batters look lost.