Haines

[brewers888]

 

Of course its not all his fault that the team has a terrible offense. I am not expecting Haines to turn guys like Sogard and Peterson into good players but the vast majority of this lineup has underachieved some very badly like Narvaez and someone has to take the hit for that. Other than Gyorko there is not one other player hitting better than expected.

 

 

So it's just about wanting someone to "take the fall?"

 

That doesn't seem like a very effective way to put a coaching staff together.

 

A hitting coach has the responsibility of getting the best out of his players. When pretty much the entire lineup has underachieved the hitting coach rightfully should get the blame.

[homer]

If we don't judge a hitting coach on the players actually hitting what do we go on. If you don't place any blame on Haines why have a hitting coach at all.

 

Good question

[sveumrules]

What is the unit of measure for blame? I googled and found something about SOBS (Self & Other Blame Scale).

 

Either way, I think 0% is definitely too low & 100% is definitely too high for Haines share of the blame for the near team wide hitting struggles this year.

 

Will Stearns & Company determine that his share of the blame is enough to cost him his job?

 

Stay tuned, I guess.

[djoctagone]

david stearns has no announcements at this time on renewing coaches' contracts.

[balsamlaker]

There is a difference between saying coaches worked hard and coaches did a good job. Even though it is difficult to evaluate in a 60-game season, I would not be disappointed if the team went a different route for hitting coach. A couple of names I would consider would be Tim Hyers (Bos) and John Mallee (LAA Asst.).

[MrTPlush]

I can’t imagine there is any chance Haines returns.

[jerichoholicninja]

Hire whoever was the coach in the early 2000's till about 2012. That should solve all the woahhs.

[nate82]

If the Brewers wanted to bring in a different hitting coach it should be Dale Sveum.

[brewcrewdue80]

Could we just pull Jeff Cirillo out of whatever he's doing and just place him as hitting coach? I mean, if thought process is a hitting coach doesn't do a whole lot with players swings, you gotta imagine he have a better strategy on opposing starters than Haines did. Putting the ball in play like he did vs. the k rates this lineup alarmingly had. I mean even just a mentor to Hiura alone has gotta produce positive results. If Darnell Coles can be a hitting coach, I'm positive Cirillo can.

[nate82]

Could we just pull Jeff Cirillo out of whatever he's doing and just place him as hitting coach? I mean, if thought process is a hitting coach doesn't do a whole lot with players swings, you gotta imagine he have a better strategy on opposing starters than Haines did. Putting the ball in play like he did vs. the k rates this lineup alarmingly had. I mean even just a mentor to Hiura alone has gotta produce positive results. If Darnell Coles can be a hitting coach, I'm positive Cirillo can.

 

Sometimes the greatest players make the absolute worst coaches. Take Ted Williams for example one of the best hitters ever and by all accounts one of the worst hitting coaches ever.

 

It is far easier to teach what not to do than it is to teach what to do correctly.

[TURBO]

I can’t imagine there is any chance Haines returns.

 

I can't imagine there is any chance he gets fired.

 

 

 

I think they chalk this entire season up to weirdness, and give everyone a new chance in 2021.

 

I think they may take that attitude with Narvaez as well, hopefully not Sogard.

[jerichoholicninja]

Could we just pull Jeff Cirillo out of whatever he's doing and just place him as hitting coach? I mean, if thought process is a hitting coach doesn't do a whole lot with players swings, you gotta imagine he have a better strategy on opposing starters than Haines did. Putting the ball in play like he did vs. the k rates this lineup alarmingly had. I mean even just a mentor to Hiura alone has gotta produce positive results. If Darnell Coles can be a hitting coach, I'm positive Cirillo can.

 

I would guess that anything related to this comes from the front office through the hitting coach as they have all the stats and figures on opposing pitchers.

[CheezWizHed]

What is the unit of measure for blame? I googled and found something about SOBS (Self & Other Blame Scale).

 

Either way, I think 0% is definitely too low & 100% is definitely too high for Haines share of the blame for the near team wide hitting struggles this year.

 

Will Stearns & Company determine that his share of the blame is enough to cost him his job?

 

Stay tuned, I guess.

 

[sarcasm]Evidently each club uses a different percentage. For example:

- Cubs are about 75% SOBS

- Cardinal are about 110% SOBS

- Brewers are TBD.

 

Word is that back in the LaRussa days, the Cardinals assumed the Brewers were 100% SOBS, but that was only because they were at 225% SOBS themselves.[/sarcasm]

[folly412]

Could we just pull Jeff Cirillo out of whatever he's doing and just place him as hitting coach? I mean, if thought process is a hitting coach doesn't do a whole lot with players swings, you gotta imagine he have a better strategy on opposing starters than Haines did. Putting the ball in play like he did vs. the k rates this lineup alarmingly had. I mean even just a mentor to Hiura alone has gotta produce positive results. If Darnell Coles can be a hitting coach, I'm positive Cirillo can.

 

Sometimes the greatest players make the absolute worst coaches. Take Ted Williams for example one of the best hitters ever and by all accounts one of the worst hitting coaches ever.

 

It is far easier to teach what not to do than it is to teach what to do correctly.

 

Though whether a good player or not, I think I'd rather be with the 27/29 other teams whose hitting coach actually was a professional player.

 

For what Cirillo is doing, the answer is some scouting for LAA and managing a collegiate team in Washington that he has an ownership stake in. Doesn't sound like he would be eager to join an MLB staff, but you never know.

https://westcoastleague.com/former-mlb-all-star-jeff-cirillo-to-manage-the-sweets/

[AKCheesehead]

Sounds like we shouldn't hold our breath for more installments of 'Rillo's Rant either then.

[balsamlaker]

Kevin Long just became available, as the Nationals are changing their coaching staff up. For the last fifteen years or so, he has had some pretty good offenses and a lot of the debate has been whether he is a good coach or did he simply have a lot of great hitters.

[balsamlaker]

Long is no longer available...the Nationals resigned him to a one-year contract.

[Jopal78]

Sveum was their hitting coach from '09-'11 and they were 3rd, 4th, 5th respectively in runs scored in the NL. Maybe they should bring him in to get more out of the offense....

 

OR maybe Sveum's good stats were as a result of having good major league hitters like Braun, Fielder, Weeks, Hart, Cameron etc. in their prime.

 

A white unicorn that will turn a bunch of second rate major league talent into a collection of great hitters, just doesn't exist.

[JohnBriggs12]

Wish the Brewers had Kevin Seitzer. Maybe they could get Atlanta's assistant hitting coach, Jose Castro?

[TigerUppercut]

So I'd like to know how those on here who clamor for a new hitting coach every 2 years evaluate that coach's impact. Any rational person understands that impact is measured by more than objective results. What are the intangibles you all are looking for in a hitting coach?

[Soupbone]

Brewer team batting average 2018 .252

November 3, 2018 Brewers hire Andy Haines.

Brewer team batting average 2019 .246

Brewers team batting average 2020 .223

 

Notice a trend?

[pacopete4]

Brewer team batting average 2018 .252

November 3, 2018 Brewers hire Andy Haines.

Brewer team batting average 2019 .246

Brewers team batting average 2020 .223

 

Notice a trend?

 

Now list the players he's working with.

[sveumrules]

Brewer team batting average 2018 .252

November 3, 2018 Brewers hire Andy Haines.

Brewer team batting average 2019 .246

Brewers team batting average 2020 .223

 

Notice a trend?

 

Batting average alone is probably not the best measure, (something like wRC+ which takes into account walks, extra base hits, league offensive environment & stadium might be a little more all encompassing) but even so a six point drop in batting average from 2018 to 2019 is hardly alarming.

 

Sure the drop from 2019 to 2020 is more concerning, but those two data sets are hardly equivalent in size (162 games versus 60 games) or circumstance (non-pandemic altered season versus pandemic altered season), to say nothing of the changing roster construction.

 

Given there was no significant change from 2018 to 2019 (104 wRC+ to 102 wRC+) & the data incongruities from 2019 to 2020, I'd classify 2020 as more of a blip at the moment then the continuation of any trend.

[balsamlaker]

Was Sveum Counsell's hitting coach his last three years as a player? There are not too many jobs out there in sports with less job security than a MLB hitting coach.

[balsamlaker]

If Haines keeps his job, Counsell must really have faith in him as of the 11 players with over 100 at bats this year, only Arcia and Gyorko had minimal improvements offensively compared to 2019. If you say 2020 was a shortened year and it doesn't matter, look back at 2019 (Haines first year). Moose and Braun saw some improvements over 2018, but you also saw players like Cain, Gamel, Shaw, Aguilar, Perez, etc. decline from 2018.