Corbin Burnes

[homer]

I was talking to a friend yesterday and we were trying to come up with an example in recent memory of someone who went from being one of the 'worst' pitchers to one of the best over the course of 1 year like this. Can anyone think of any?

 

 

Lucas Giolito.

 

This is from 2016 so doesn't include Giolito obviously but some blasts from the past on here:

https://www.12up.com/posts/3734735-9-biggest-one-season-pitching-turnarounds-of-all-time

[HiAndTight]

From an utter wreck to a Cy Young contender. Before this season I was hoping to see a decent season from him. I certainly did not expect to see him dominate like this

 

 

I was pretty confident he'd figure it out...but I was a bit worried that he might be moved into a role into the pen if he struggled again.

 

I think there a lot of posters on here were still pretty confident in him despite his disastrous season last year. His stuff is just too good, but does anyone expect any pitcher outside of Cole, Buehler types to dominate like this? He's just fun to watch right now. And hopefully he gets to take the bump a few more times this year.

[HiAndTight]

I was talking to a friend yesterday and we were trying to come up with an example in recent memory of someone who went from being one of the 'worst' pitchers to one of the best over the course of 1 year like this. Can anyone think of any?

 

In 2000 Halladay posted a 10.64 ERA (48 ERA+) in 67 IP then followed it up with a 3.16 ERA (145 ERA+) over 105 IP in 2001.

 

Almost 100 points of ERA+ is a pretty crazy swing, but still pales in comparison to Burnes going from a 50 ERA+ last year to a 258 ERA+ so far this year.

 

Even more crazy to me when you consider how little Burnes changed. I thought with Halladay they broke down his delivery and re-worked it. With Burnes, unless I'm mistaken, it's more about his pitch selection and just a mental break.

[trwi7]

I was talking to a friend yesterday and we were trying to come up with an example in recent memory of someone who went from being one of the 'worst' pitchers to one of the best over the course of 1 year like this. Can anyone think of any?

 

In 2000 Halladay posted a 10.64 ERA (48 ERA+) in 67 IP then followed it up with a 3.16 ERA (145 ERA+) over 105 IP in 2001.

 

Almost 100 points of ERA+ is a pretty crazy swing, but still pales in comparison to Burnes going from a 50 ERA+ last year to a 258 ERA+ so far this year.

 

Even more crazy to me when you consider how little Burnes changed. I thought with Halladay they broke down his delivery and re-worked it. With Burnes, unless I'm mistaken, it's more about his pitch selection and just a mental break.

 

I mean he changed the type of fastball he threw and added a pitch that is one of the best pitches in the majors in an offseason. That's more than pitch selection and a mental break.

[Greenleaf1]

Apologies if this has been discussed somewhere but who is the last CYA winner to be removed from the rotation midseason for any period of time? Has that ever happened?

[monty57]

I didn't like the way the Brewers handled Burnes last year. Lots of young players have a tough time when they first come to the majors. I thought they should have just sent him back to AAA to work some things out. Instead, they have a bad habit of sticking every good young starter into the MLB pen, and that just made things worse for Burnes. Thankfully, it doesn't look like it had permanent effects, but it might have cost us a year's service time of a potential Cy Young candidate in a few years.

 

On the positive side, if he and Woodruff can keep this up, that's a good 1-2 punch for the next four years, with a lot of other talented players to fill out the pitching staff. That can go a long way towards getting us some more playoff baseball over the next few years.

[JohnBriggs12]

 

I know Fangraph doesn't have tonight's performance into Burnes' stats yet ( As of this post) but before this start, he wasn't considered a qualified pitcher, if there is ever such a thing in this season.

 

To "qualify" a pitcher needs one inning pitched for every game his team has played. Prior to his start, he was short of that. Unless he goes less than 4 innings in his last start, he will qualify at season's end. He needs a total of 60 innings. Darvish got lit up a bit last night, and he was a prime Cy Young contender so that helps Burnes' chances.

[MrTPlush]

Burnes went from a 3.1 HR/9 to a 0.2 HR/9.....pretty crazy.

 

I think Bauer edges Burnes, but that is about it. Burnes has no track record though so I wouldn't be shocked if he wouldn't even finish Top 3 if the season ended today. Which...to some point I can't blame in a short season.

[tmwiese55]

We just have to put up some number on Bauer this week to screw up his stats, then Burnes have a good game in is start. Simple, haha.

[Madhawk23]

Has it been reported at all whether the Brewers considered moving Burnes up this week to start on 3 days rest, and then might also allow him to pitch again on Sunday - on 3 days rest? Or, is that just something you don't even entertain because you don't want to screw the kid up at all in what has been an incredible bounce-back season (albeit a very condensed season)? I'm sure they at least entertained the idea, but wondering if CC had been asked about this in any of his press conferences this weekend?

[MrTPlush]

Has it been reported at all whether the Brewers considered moving Burnes up this week to start on 3 days rest, and then might also allow him to pitch again on Sunday - on 3 days rest? Or, is that just something you don't even entertain because you don't want to screw the kid up at all in what has been an incredible bounce-back season (albeit a very condensed season)? I'm sure they at least entertained the idea, but wondering if CC had been asked about this in any of his press conferences this weekend?

 

Guessing there have been no conversations to start him on short rest just to maybe have him pitch Sunday on short rest again. If anything he will start per normal Thursday and maybe pitch Sunday in a pinch if it means getting into the postseason or not...in the bullpen role of course.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Has it been reported at all whether the Brewers considered moving Burnes up this week to start on 3 days rest, and then might also allow him to pitch again on Sunday - on 3 days rest? Or, is that just something you don't even entertain because you don't want to screw the kid up at all in what has been an incredible bounce-back season (albeit a very condensed season)? I'm sure they at least entertained the idea, but wondering if CC had been asked about this in any of his press conferences this weekend?

 

Guessing there have been no conversations to start him on short rest just to maybe have him pitch Sunday on short rest again. If anything he will start per normal Thursday and maybe pitch Sunday in a pinch if it means getting into the postseason or not...in the bullpen role of course.

 

That is exactly what the Reds will likely be doing with Bauer (starting him Wednesday, then Sunday against the Twins if the game is important) ... the difference being, of course, that Bauer is going to be a free agent at the end of this year, and there's a good chance he won't be re-signing with the Reds, so they are more apt to ride him hard.

[MrTPlush]

Has it been reported at all whether the Brewers considered moving Burnes up this week to start on 3 days rest, and then might also allow him to pitch again on Sunday - on 3 days rest? Or, is that just something you don't even entertain because you don't want to screw the kid up at all in what has been an incredible bounce-back season (albeit a very condensed season)? I'm sure they at least entertained the idea, but wondering if CC had been asked about this in any of his press conferences this weekend?

 

Guessing there have been no conversations to start him on short rest just to maybe have him pitch Sunday on short rest again. If anything he will start per normal Thursday and maybe pitch Sunday in a pinch if it means getting into the postseason or not...in the bullpen role of course.

 

That is exactly what the Reds will likely be doing with Bauer (starting him Wednesday, then Sunday against the Twins if the game is important) ... the difference being, of course, that Bauer is going to be a free agent at the end of this year, and there's a good chance he won't be re-signing with the Reds, so they are more apt to ride him hard.

 

Sure, but Bauer is a seasoned vet. Burnes is an inexperienced youngster. He has been great, but not sure I would go out hoping he is 2008 Sabathia.

 

Way too much risk for questionable benefit. No way they would ride Burnes for 200+ pitches and 12+ innings in the two hypothetical starts. You would probably end up with 8 innings max instead of 6-7 in just one dominate start. You may end up with two stinker outings if he is tired.

[KeithStone53151]

This article points this out, but I've noticed how often he works teh cutter/sinker combo down and in to lefties. I mean, that's really not somewhere you want to be messing around to lefties...but it's hilarious how often he perfectly spots that cutter off the inside corner and down to a lefty and they swing and miss. Otherwise, he'll start the sinker inside off the plate and it hits the corner for strike 3 looking. The fact that he went from throwing 2 pitches to throwing 6 pitches over one offseason(extended, but still), is seriously wild. Gotta love that work ethic.

[markedman5]

[3and2Fastball]

 

Hey even a broken clock is right twice a day! Had a feeling this is what was up. Somebody with Burnes’ stuff doesn’t just all of a sudden suck if it wasn’t an injury or something going on in his head.... cool to see this

[Eye Black]

This FanGraphs article isn't solely focused on Corbin Burnes, but the first several paragraphs are specifically about his pitch mix transformation:

 

Finding Corbin / By Ben Clemens

[djoctagone]

in 2020 cy young balloting, corbin burnes got a 4th place vote and ten 5th place votes.

[thebruce44]

in 2020 cy young balloting, corbin burnes got a 4th place vote and ten 5th place votes.

 

One of the Twitter replies to Hardicourt is that Burnes' total must be the most points a Brewers pitcher has received in 25 years. That seemed crazy to me, so I looked up some years that I figured we would have contending pitchers.

 

2004: Sheets 1 pt (with a 2.70 ERA/237 IP)

2008: Sabathia 9 pts

2011: Yo 5 pts

2012: Nothing

2018: Hader 4 pts

2019: Corbin 10 pts, Williams 3

 

I don't know why that is so shocking to me. I feel like we had a number of top of the rotation starters over the years garnered a lot of national attention, but I guess not.

[owbc]

in 2020 cy young balloting, corbin burnes got a 4th place vote and ten 5th place votes.

 

One of the Twitter replies to Hardicourt is that Burnes' total must be the most points a Brewers pitcher has received in 25 years. That seemed crazy to me, so I looked up some years that I figured we would have contending pitchers.

 

2004: Sheets 1 pt (with a 2.70 ERA/237 IP)

2008: Sabathia 9 pts

2011: Yo 5 pts

2012: Nothing

2018: Hader 4 pts

2019: Corbin 10 pts, Williams 3

 

I don't know why that is so shocking to me. I feel like we had a number of top of the rotation starters over the years garnered a lot of national attention, but I guess not.

 

2004 Sheets was such a crime, although the field was crowded that year. At least only one voter was dumb enough to pick 20-game winner Roy Oswalt. It looks like Randy Johnson got badly robbed because the D-backs lost 111 games. If he hadn't thrown a perfect game that year he might have been down with Sheets below the relief pitchers.

[Thurston Fluff]

That 2004 season from Sheets was one of the most dominant I ever saw from any Brewer pitcher. It's a shame he never got the credit he deserved.

[xisxisxis]

That 2004 season from Sheets was one of the most dominant I ever saw from any Brewer pitcher. It's a shame he never got the credit he deserved.

While 16 years ago doesn't seem that long to me, that was the prehistoric days when W/L record was clearly the best indicator of player/pitcher value. So Sheets didn't have a chance and since most other teams can afford to pay pitchers $40M per as Brewer fans we just have to be happy with 6 and done from now on.

[djoctagone]

the injury that shut down corbin burnes last year was minor. was throwing again less than a month later.

[MrTPlush]

The CC Sabathia voting was stupid too. He finished 5th because he got massively docked for not being in the NL all year. Which was stupid in itself, but he ended up 6th in MVP voting...the most votes any pitcher got. It gets even more dumb when you see where other NL pitchers ranked in MVP voting:

 

8th - Brad Lidge (4th in Cy voting)

14th - Johan Santana (3rd in Cy voting)

17th - Brandon Webb (2nd in Cy voting)

23rd - Tim Lincecum (1st in Cy voting)

24th - Jose Valverde (no votes)

No Votes - Ryan Dempster (6th in Cy Voting)

 

I would have to look, but modern day voting cannot be this stupid. Lincecum won the Cy Young and barely made the MVP vote? His team sucked, yes, but Webb's and Santana's respective team didn't make the postseason either. I thought the voters only hated the winner being on a non postseason team...but jeez 2008 was ruthless.