Phelps to Phillies

[liveforoctober]

This feels like a great 'sell high' move to me. Where's the value in Phelps? He pitched 13 nice innings this year, great, he pitched 588 innings prior to that and was never especially impressive, and he's not getting any younger or cheaper.

 

Let the Phillies be the ones to waste their time making trades to get a #8 seed.

 

Yep. Exactly how I feel. Phelps HAS BEEN slightly better the the guys we've got to replace him, but he certainly isn't anything special. Get younger and get whatever you can for him at his peak value right now and sign another guy like him in the offseason then trade that guy high to get younger....etc etc. etc.

 

Of course signing veterans and dealing them for “low level minor leaguers” at the deadline doesn’t sound like the team will be winning much under your scenario.

 

Ultimately, I don’t really care about Phelps either way, I’m more disappointed the Brewers didn’t add and are content to “see what happens”/ punt on this year. Wasting a prime season from Yelich, and having the other young players march a year closer to free agency while likely playing out the string.

 

I mean, I get it - but who could we have traded to add anything of significance? Ashby? Lutz? Otherwise we are looking to deal from the Hiura, Burnes, Woodruff lot to get anything that is a splash. We didn't really have any bullets to add in the sense that your posts suggests..

[tmwiese55]

I agree with OWBC and Oxy, pretty much nail it in their two posts. Aside from maybe the last sentence about continuous trades, if the next guy we sign is good and the team is winning then you try to win.

[markedman5]

I am glad we didn’t waste any of our limited prospect capital to try and compete this season. It’s possible we could make the playoffs anyway but even if we sneak in it’s hard to see us doing any damage......not with the Dodgers, Padres, Braves to get through.

[PeaveyFury]

I mean, I get it - but who could we have traded to add anything of significance? Ashby? Lutz? Otherwise we are looking to deal from the Hiura, Burnes, Woodruff lot to get anything that is a splash. We didn't really have any bullets to add in the sense that your posts suggests..

 

I think this is it. Phelps is probably the only one of their '1-year deal with an option' guys that had any legit value, and they dealt him. Beyond that, you're left with the choice of A)Trading one of our legit good players away to rebuild, or B)Deal away what's actually left in the system at this point to try and make the playoffs in a weird season with a roster with more than a couple of holes. I think they did what they could to get value back, but there wasn't much of value to give.

[HiAndTight]

Its just hard to get excited about this organization right now. We are headed towards the Rays financially without the scouts and farm system to get away with it.

 

 

Ok...these statements are just contradictory.

 

What exactly suggests we're heading towards the lowest salary in the league year in and year out? That we just signed our MVP to a new 200+ million dollar deal?

That we aggressively pursued Rendon? That Mark A has always been so cheap and unwilling to spend to add talent when it was available?

So that's just objectively not true. Now, the 2nd part, you take issue with how awful the scouting is(and you blame this on Stearns).

 

He hasn't even been GM long enough for any of the Latin American players signed during his time to be effective...or to really to make ANY judgements...but ok, terrible system that needs talent.

We JUST added 3 young pitchers for a mediocre reliever who's going to be 34 years old next year...and I REALLY doubt that we made the trade to save 250K next year.

 

The guy pitched a decent 13 innings for what YOU yourself call a terrible team. So explain the issue with trading him(especially when you have a guy like Rassmussen from the "abysmal" farm system and Devin Williams from that same system seemingly ready to pitch in the back end of the BP?

 

 

I'm trying to understand the logic beyond Brewers=Bad.

[markedman5]

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Craig Counsell on the trade: "[Phelps] has been a valuable piece for this team, but David Stearns found a deal that he thought he couldn't pass up. ... I don't think it says anything about the future of the team. We've got to go out and win a baseball game today."

 

Maybe I'm just overly optimistic, but reading between the lines on this, is sounds as though they know who they are getting back, and its going to be more than just a few organizational soldier types.

[PeaveyFury]

Craig Counsell on the trade: "[Phelps] has been a valuable piece for this team, but David Stearns found a deal that he thought he couldn't pass up. ... I don't think it says anything about the future of the team. We've got to go out and win a baseball game today."

 

Maybe I'm just overly optimistic, but reading between the lines on this, is sounds as though they know who they are getting back, and its going to be more than just a few organizational soldier types.

 

I took it that way as well. But also, Counsell almost had to say something to that effect.

[monty57]

If I recall correctly, when Stearns was hired, one of his strengths was supposed to be his ability to spot talent at a young age. Then he made the Lind trade, which I was excited about at the time. Since becoming GM, he hasn't had many chances to trade MLB players for prospects, so I'm cautiously optimistic about this deal.

[Brewcrewin07]

I mean you couldn't have gotten 1 AAA( or slightly better) bat back for him?? Not even a bench bat??

 

You'd rather play to win right now with this team? I'd rather pile up bodies in the minors and hope to hit on one down the line. Plus, presumably if we picked up a 'bench bat' right now and he went 1/11 to start then we'd all deem the guy to suck and the trade horrible.

 

You play to win the game. NEVER sacrifice the now for the uncertainty of the future. That will always get you no where.

[HiAndTight]

I am glad we didn’t waste any of our limited prospect capital to try and compete this season. It’s possible we could make the playoffs anyway but even if we sneak in it’s hard to see us doing any damage......not with the Dodgers, Padres, Braves to get through.

 

 

Maybe we do, maybe we don't, but Phelps was really unlikely to make the difference in any series.

 

This really hasn't changed my view of the Brewers...at all. I still think the team is talented enough and Counsell is a good enough manager to get us in. And from there it's about how we're playing.

 

We added some young talent from a guy who just doesn't make a big difference.

 

I'm going to guess one of the 3 pitches will be Ethan Lindow. Just a complete guess, but he's ranked 25th in their system and from reading the scouting report, it talks about how his fastball plays up due to the spin rate. Seems like the type of guy Stearns would target and the Phillies would make available. Those are the type of pitches I'd expect. Flawed pitchers who have control issues or haven't developed yet, but have a pitch that the Brewers think it's worth trying to see if they can build a solid repertoire from. But...who knows.

[HiAndTight]

I mean you couldn't have gotten 1 AAA( or slightly better) bat back for him?? Not even a bench bat??

 

You'd rather play to win right now with this team? I'd rather pile up bodies in the minors and hope to hit on one down the line. Plus, presumably if we picked up a 'bench bat' right now and he went 1/11 to start then we'd all deem the guy to suck and the trade horrible.

 

You play to win the game. NEVER sacrifice the now for the uncertainty of the future. That will always get you no where.

 

 

A-They didn't really sacrifice much.

B-The Herm Edwards quote is a little played out...AND nobody's saying the Brewers aren't trying to win now.

C-Yes, VERY often "sacrificing" now for potential down the road will absolutely get you somewhere. But of course...saying you're "sacrificing now" for this uncertainty...what "certainty" is there with Phelps? He's a Journeyman reliever who was pitching at an unsustainable level.

 

What is certain to NOT get you anywhere but the nearly endless state of rebuilding is sacrificing everything for now...with the uncertainty of Baseball and blowing off the future.

 

 

But again...this team didn't trade Josh Hader for 3 pitchers in the lower levels of the minors, they traded DAVID PHELPS.

[PeaveyFury]

I mean you couldn't have gotten 1 AAA( or slightly better) bat back for him?? Not even a bench bat??

 

You'd rather play to win right now with this team? I'd rather pile up bodies in the minors and hope to hit on one down the line. Plus, presumably if we picked up a 'bench bat' right now and he went 1/11 to start then we'd all deem the guy to suck and the trade horrible.

 

You play to win the game. NEVER sacrifice the now for the uncertainty of the future. That will always get you no where.

 

That mindset is probably why David Stearns is a General Manager for a MLB team, and we fans aren't.

[sveumrules]

You play to win the game. NEVER sacrifice the now for the uncertainty of the future. That will always get you no where.

 

From 2010-14, the Cubs lost 464 games, 2nd most in MLB. They sacrificed those years for the uncertainty of the future & won the World Series in 2016. They got somewhere.

 

From 2010-14 the Astros lost 502 games, the most in MLB. They sacrificed those years for the uncertainty of the future & won the World Series in 2017. They got somewhere.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Adam McCalvy

@AdamMcCalvy

Hearing the Brewers will get three 19-year-old RHPs from the Phillies for David Phelps: Brandon Ramey, Israel Puello, Juan Geraldo. Story: https://atmlb.com/3bdCLwx

[HiAndTight]

Craig Counsell on the trade: "[Phelps] has been a valuable piece for this team, but David Stearns found a deal that he thought he couldn't pass up. ... I don't think it says anything about the future of the team. We've got to go out and win a baseball game today."

 

Maybe I'm just overly optimistic, but reading between the lines on this, is sounds as though they know who they are getting back, and its going to be more than just a few organizational soldier types.

 

I took it that way as well. But also, Counsell almost had to say something to that effect.

 

 

He has to put a positive spin on it...not sure he has to say Stearns found a deal he "couldn't pass up." That tells me they really liked the arms they were getting back.

 

I feel no different about this teams potential this year than I did before I heard about the trade. If the guys who are struggling start to hit like they have in the past and like they're capable of, they can make things interesting. But that's the area of the team that's been underperforming. Their established hitters whov'e struggled.

[narwhalattack]

 

I have no idea who these guys are, so this is very much like the Lind trade. Hopefully at least one of them pans out.

[markedman5]

You play to win the game. NEVER sacrifice the now for the uncertainty of the future. That will always get you no where.

 

From 2010-14, the Cubs lost 464 games, 2nd most in MLB. They sacrificed those years for the uncertainty of the future & won the World Series in 2016. They got somewhere.

 

From 2010-14 the Astros lost 502 games, the most in MLB. They sacrificed those years for the uncertainty of the future & won the World Series in 2017. They got somewhere.

 

White Sox didn’t want to sacrifice the now for the uncertainty of the future a few years ago.....

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/04/how-did-the-white-sox-trade-fernando-tatis-jr.html

[tmwiese55]

I mean you couldn't have gotten 1 AAA( or slightly better) bat back for him?? Not even a bench bat??

 

You'd rather play to win right now with this team? I'd rather pile up bodies in the minors and hope to hit on one down the line. Plus, presumably if we picked up a 'bench bat' right now and he went 1/11 to start then we'd all deem the guy to suck and the trade horrible.

 

You play to win the game. NEVER sacrifice the now for the uncertainty of the future. That will always get you no where.

 

Sorry, this is flat out wrong. It works over and over in all sports. Are you mad that we sacrificed Carlos Gomez for Hader and other pieces that led to Yelich? Yea, it never works out.

 

Houston and the Cubs just won WS with full out teardowns before.

 

Clippers trading away guys last deadline in spite of being good led them to Kawhi/PG13 and possible title this year. You can go on and on with examples.

[jonescm128]

 

Brandon Ramey

Israel Puello

Juan Geraldo

[liveforoctober]

Ramey: https://www.baseballamerica.com/players/101608/brandon-ramey/

 

Puello: https://www.baseballamerica.com/players/101030/israel-puello/

 

Geraldo: https://www.baseballamerica.com/players/101021/juan-geraldo/

 

Not much out there on any of them from a quick search. In the little experience they have (GCL, DSL, etc) they all posted K/9 rates above 9. Would be interested if anyone can find video/interviews/scouting reports. This is definitely a Stearns special ... hope he had some fun with this one!

[pacopete4]

@BrewersFarm mentions that all 3 had a K-BB% above 25% last season in rookie ball. Only 8 MLB pitchers did that last season. Could very well likely be a big reason why they were targeted.

[markedman5]

[SRB]

Some very impressive numbers in Rookie ball, for whatever that's worth. Here's some info from Fangraphs:

 

Brandon Ramey

 

2019 (Phillies, R): 7 GS, 22.2 IP, 11.9 K/9, 2.4 BB/9, 2.78 ERA, 2.76 FIP, 2.81 xFIP

 

Pre-2020 commentary: "Ramey is a very tall young righty with a lower arm slot. His changeup has a chance to be very good."

 

Israel Puello

 

2019 (Phillies, R): 15 GS, 65.2 IP, 11.4 K/9, 2.6 BB/9, 1.92 ERA, 2.51 FIP, 2.54 xFIP

 

Juan Geraldo

 

2019 (Phillies, R): 12 G, 2 GS, 25.0 IP, 11.9 K/9, 2.5 BB/9, 3.96 ERA, 2.59 FIP, 2.56 xFIP

[TigerUppercut]

I mean you couldn't have gotten 1 AAA( or slightly better) bat back for him?? Not even a bench bat??

 

You'd rather play to win right now with this team? I'd rather pile up bodies in the minors and hope to hit on one down the line. Plus, presumably if we picked up a 'bench bat' right now and he went 1/11 to start then we'd all deem the guy to suck and the trade horrible.

 

You play to win the game. NEVER sacrifice the now for the uncertainty of the future. That will always get you no where.

 

Doug Melvin? Is that you, Doug?