Grisham

[adambr2]

The right handed hitting portion of a platoon is not very valuable. If that is the end result that’s pretty lackluster. When I say valuable I’m talking an actual above average starter, heck even solidly average. For him to be that he is going to need an average near .300 because he just won’t have the power to get to that mid .700 OPS without it. He has the in base skills (it looks like) so that is good.

 

The SS position isn’t as weak as it once, you have to actually hit to be good these days. 14/25 qualified batters last year slugged .444 or higher. Urias didn’t even average that in the minors.

 

I’m not saying he doesn’t have potential, he does...but it isn’t very inspiring from the looks of it. David Stearns has had the worst offensive player in baseball 2018-2020 on his team and can’t figure out how to upgrade that. He brought in someone this year and somehow they are arguably worse.

 

From 2018-2020 the the next worst offensive player voluntarily ran out (aka isn’t playing due to a big contracts) is Freddy Galvis. Sadly, Galvis has been twice as valuable.

 

Orlando Arcia: -54.8

Freddy Galvis: -27.8

 

I really hope Urias is the answer, but I surely hope we don’t plan to waste 3 years waiting for him to break out only to be a continuation of Orlando Arcia. I will give him the benefit of the doubt because he is young/inexperienced, but honestly it is hard for anyone to be worse than Arcia offensively.

 

Arcia should have been non-tendered after 2019. The leash for him has been inexplicably long. I guess it bothers me that the Brewers do not yet have enough confidence in Urias to just let him replace one of the worst regular starters in baseball, while Grisham is pretty well entrenched as a starter. I'm not giving up on Urias, but I doubt he's going to live up to his prospect hype.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

The right handed hitting portion of a platoon is not very valuable. If that is the end result that’s pretty lackluster. When I say valuable I’m talking an actual above average starter, heck even solidly average. For him to be that he is going to need an average near .300 because he just won’t have the power to get to that mid .700 OPS without it. He has the in base skills (it looks like) so that is good.

 

The SS position isn’t as weak as it once, you have to actually hit to be good these days. 14/25 qualified batters last year slugged .444 or higher. Urias didn’t even average that in the minors.

 

I’m not saying he doesn’t have potential, he does...but it isn’t very inspiring from the looks of it. David Stearns has had the worst offensive player in baseball 2018-2020 on his team and can’t figure out how to upgrade that. He brought in someone this year and somehow they are arguably worse.

 

From 2018-2020 the the next worst offensive player voluntarily ran out (aka isn’t playing due to a big contracts) is Freddy Galvis. Sadly, Galvis has been twice as valuable.

 

Orlando Arcia: -54.8

Freddy Galvis: -27.8

 

I really hope Urias is the answer, but I surely hope we don’t plan to waste 3 years waiting for him to break out only to be a continuation of Orlando Arcia. I will give him the benefit of the doubt because he is young/inexperienced, but honestly it is hard for anyone to be worse than Arcia offensively.

 

Arcia should have been non-tendered after 2019. The leash for him has been inexplicably long. I guess it bothers me that the Brewers do not yet have enough confidence in Urias to just let him replace one of the worst regular starters in baseball, while Grisham is pretty well entrenched as a starter. I'm not giving up on Urias, but I doubt he's going to live up to his prospect hype.

 

Up until a couple weeks ago Arcia was sporting a .270+ average and an OPS hovering around .700. Certainly not great by any means, but for a defense-first SS, it is acceptable. He has pretty much fallen off a cliff the last couple weeks, though.

[adambr2]

Arcia is probably the closest thing to fool's gold that I've ever seen in MLB. He'll go through stretches of really having some good ABs, really showing good plate discipline, and get everyone back on his bandwagon. It's probably the main reason the organization has been so patient with him, they always think he is this tantalizingly close to breaking out.

 

Inevitably though, he has 100% of the time reverted back to his old ways. His 76 OPS+ and -.3 WAR in 2020 suggests this year is no different.

 

Enough is enough. He is in his 5th season, and has been one of tbe worst regulars in baseball for about 4 of them. I think enough time has passed.

[pacopete4]

After seeing Grisham flip the bird to the camers in the dugout, it made it even easier to not give a damn that he is in San Diego. Seems like a complete clown out there and I am believer that he will just be a middle of the road type player that flashes here and there.

 

When did he do this? Can't find any reference to this incident online even on Twitter. Seems like a pretty unfair take even if this did happen. I've never seen anything to indicate that Grisham lacks class much less is a complete "clown."

 

Twitter

 

I’m not sure how “unfair” I’m being as he was a buffoon after hitting a homer. Like another poster said, arrogant.

[ThisIsMyCrew]

This stuff never seems to bother people until they're on another team. We're certainly not above it all. We stuck by Braun amongst one of the biggest PED scandals in baseball history and he is still pretty much loved in Wisconsin.

 

I will agree that players should know where to give it a rest on showboating, but I like that side of the coin a lot better than acting like the St. Louis Cardinals and having our feelings hurt over bat flips and stolen bases in a blowout game.

 

100% agree. I tend to draw the line a bit before people call their opponents the MF bombs. Just doesn’t sit well with me.

 

I wonder how much Machado has influenced him...

[MrTPlush]

I think he was directing that to all the people on this forum saying he just hits against a bunch of scrub pitchers.

[HiAndTight]

This stuff never seems to bother people until they're on another team. We're certainly not above it all. We stuck by Braun amongst one of the biggest PED scandals in baseball history and he is still pretty much loved in Wisconsin.

 

I will agree that players should know where to give it a rest on showboating, but I like that side of the coin a lot better than acting like the St. Louis Cardinals and having our feelings hurt over bat flips and stolen bases in a blowout game.

 

100% agree. I tend to draw the line a bit before people call their opponents the MF bombs. Just doesn’t sit well with me.

 

I wonder how much Machado has influenced him...

 

Does anyone know any context behind this also? SD and LAD suddenly are rivals. I know there were a few guys HBP in that series, that was a HUGE HR...just feels like raking the guy over the coals over this seems a bit silly.

 

I LOVED watching Carlos Gomez play and he was regarded by most other fans as one of the biggest clowns in the game. I never really had an issue with him. The only guy I really had an issue with on the Brewers was Prince. He acted like a clown quite often with the "hold me back" schtick he did.

 

Not everyone can have a Rickie Weeks type approach to the game. For some teams having guys like this on their team adds a little swagger that you can't really quantify. But again, this is the first time I've seen Grisham do anything that is even questionable.

[adambr2]

Agreed. I loved watching Gomez. And if Grisham got arrogant toward a bitter rival...whatever. We all know if one of our guys hit a bomb off Wainwright and watched it, and then Molina and Schildt started chirping and our guy did that in response, we'd love every bit of it.

 

The bird flips and obscenities are probably a little much, but that's something for the leadership on the Padres to address with him privately. Not a huge deal.

[adambr2]

I'll put it this way. I'll take a guy any day who gets emotional about the game in the moment and is willing to show it over some holier-than-thou Captain Class hypocrite who acts like he's the law in regard to how everyone should act while playing the game of baseball (laws which he is, of course, above)

[Eye Black]

Do we even know the context of the double bird Grisham flipped? The photo of him doing it has been around all season so either it was from Spring Training or a game very early this season.

[HiAndTight]

Agreed. I loved watching Gomez. And if Grisham got arrogant toward a bitter rival...whatever. We all know if one of our guys hit a bomb off Wainwright and watched it, and then Molina and Schildt started chirping and our guy did that in response, we'd love every bit of it.

 

The bird flips and obscenities are probably a little much, but that's something for the leadership on the Padres to address with him privately. Not a huge deal.

 

 

Yeah, it's a bit much, but that in and of itself doesn't really tell ya too much about his character(which I know you're not suggesting).

 

I feel like I watched him play enough and I haven't seen anything that would suggest he's not a good kid who for the most part just puts his head down and tries to play hard.

 

 

Someone else made the comment that the loss of some of the more emotional/energetic players seemed to be hurting us. I don't know how much validity there is to that, but when we won 103 games and lost in 7 in the NLCS, 3 of our top 5 players were LoCain, Jeffress and Aguilar who were all pretty easy going guys who seemed to play around in the clubhouse while also playing hard.

 

 

Again, it's impossible to quantify how much players like that help a team. I personally believe in a game where the harder you try, the worst your results are often times, they certainly help. But as others have said, I'll take that over the "How do I explain to my son," nonsense and then watching a pitcher scream obscenities after a big K on the biggest stage in baseball.

[HiAndTight]

Do we even know the context of the double bird Grisham flipped? The photo of him doing it has been around all season so either it was from Spring Training or a game very early this season.

 

 

From the tweet that was linked, it sounded like it had just happened. I THOUGHT it was from 9/14 when he homered off Kershaw to tie the game up late to help pull the Pads within 1 1/2 of the Dodgers.

I know he had a bat flip after hitting a 3 run shot last year off Sergio Romo(IIRC) in the bottom of the 8th to give the Brewers a 6-5 lead that the Twins complained about...

I wonder how many Brewers fans even remember that, much less took issues with it.

 

I'm 100 pct in agreement with adambr, you need guys like that who can interject some energy in a team. Even in a 60 game schedule you can have lulls.

[HiAndTight]

 

Team picked up a top 20 prospect Urias vs a non top 100 prospect and afterthought player in Grisham.

 

This is a bit of revisionist history. Grisham's giant leap last year was THEE story for the Brewers minor league system and I thought he'd moved well into the top 100 in many updated in-season rankings.

 

That's kinda the opposite of an afterthought. And I know he was ranked as high as 59 by one service even coming into last year.

 

 

Grisham saw his value sky rocket last year hitting .300/.407/.603 1.010 OPS and 26 HR's in fewer than 100 games earning him a significant role with the Brewers during their last season push and in their WC game while Urias struggled and saw his value drop and likely would have seen his playing time drop if not for Tatis Jr suffering a season ending injury.

 

Again, that's not to say that I don't like the trade...but they're both 23 years old and at the time we made the trade, Grisham was anything but an afterthought for the Brewers. They sold high on him and hoped that Urias would still live up to his top 25 ranking(and I believe he still can).

[DHonks]

The right handed hitting portion of a platoon is not very valuable. If that is the end result that’s pretty lackluster. When I say valuable I’m talking an actual above average starter, heck even solidly average. For him to be that he is going to need an average near .300 because he just won’t have the power to get to that mid .700 OPS without it. He has the in base skills (it looks like) so that is good.

 

The SS position isn’t as weak as it once, you have to actually hit to be good these days. 14/25 qualified batters last year slugged .444 or higher. Urias didn’t even average that in the minors.

 

I’m not saying he doesn’t have potential, he does...but it isn’t very inspiring from the looks of it. David Stearns has had the worst offensive player in baseball 2018-2020 on his team and can’t figure out how to upgrade that. He brought in someone this year and somehow they are arguably worse.

 

From 2018-2020 the the next worst offensive player voluntarily ran out (aka isn’t playing due to a big contracts) is Freddy Galvis. Sadly, Galvis has been twice as valuable.

 

Orlando Arcia: -54.8

Freddy Galvis: -27.8

 

I really hope Urias is the answer, but I surely hope we don’t plan to waste 3 years waiting for him to break out only to be a continuation of Orlando Arcia. I will give him the benefit of the doubt because he is young/inexperienced, but honestly it is hard for anyone to be worse than Arcia offensively.

 

Arcia should have been non-tendered after 2019. The leash for him has been inexplicably long. I guess it bothers me that the Brewers do not yet have enough confidence in Urias to just let him replace one of the worst regular starters in baseball, while Grisham is pretty well entrenched as a starter. I'm not giving up on Urias, but I doubt he's going to live up to his prospect hype.

 

I remember being surprised last winter when I compared Arica at that point in his career with Carlos Gomez, and Arica had actually outproduced him. Arica was a solid hitter in the minors, and has a knack for key hits. I’m not worried about him right now

[Eye Black]

Do we even know the context of the double bird Grisham flipped? The photo of him doing it has been around all season so either it was from Spring Training or a game very early this season.

 

 

From the tweet that was linked, it sounded like it had just happened. I THOUGHT it was from 9/14 when he homered off Kershaw to tie the game up late to help pull the Pads within 1 1/2 of the Dodgers.

No, Padres fans have been posting that photo on social media for most of the season. It definitely wasn’t from the recent Dodgers game which I figured is what some people may be assuming.

[adambr2]

The right handed hitting portion of a platoon is not very valuable. If that is the end result that’s pretty lackluster. When I say valuable I’m talking an actual above average starter, heck even solidly average. For him to be that he is going to need an average near .300 because he just won’t have the power to get to that mid .700 OPS without it. He has the in base skills (it looks like) so that is good.

 

The SS position isn’t as weak as it once, you have to actually hit to be good these days. 14/25 qualified batters last year slugged .444 or higher. Urias didn’t even average that in the minors.

 

I’m not saying he doesn’t have potential, he does...but it isn’t very inspiring from the looks of it. David Stearns has had the worst offensive player in baseball 2018-2020 on his team and can’t figure out how to upgrade that. He brought in someone this year and somehow they are arguably worse.

 

From 2018-2020 the the next worst offensive player voluntarily ran out (aka isn’t playing due to a big contracts) is Freddy Galvis. Sadly, Galvis has been twice as valuable.

 

Orlando Arcia: -54.8

Freddy Galvis: -27.8

 

I really hope Urias is the answer, but I surely hope we don’t plan to waste 3 years waiting for him to break out only to be a continuation of Orlando Arcia. I will give him the benefit of the doubt because he is young/inexperienced, but honestly it is hard for anyone to be worse than Arcia offensively.

 

Arcia should have been non-tendered after 2019. The leash for him has been inexplicably long. I guess it bothers me that the Brewers do not yet have enough confidence in Urias to just let him replace one of the worst regular starters in baseball, while Grisham is pretty well entrenched as a starter. I'm not giving up on Urias, but I doubt he's going to live up to his prospect hype.

 

I remember being surprised last winter when I compared Arica at that point in his career with Carlos Gomez, and Arica had actually outproduced him. Arica was a solid hitter in the minors, and has a knack for key hits. I’m not worried about him right now

 

I'm not worried about Arcia either because I don't have any expectations for him anymore to worry about him. He wasn't ever a great hitter in the minors outside of a solid season in Biloxi. He's always been known as a glove first prospect.

 

It's true that Gomez had a similar trajectory in coming up too early and didn't break out until 26, but he always had the frame and projection to hit. I don't think Arcia really has this untapped hitting potential that Gomez did.

[SoCalBrewfan]

I can't really tell if this is about Grisham, Urias, Arcia, or what anymore. Mods feel free to move this if it belongs elsewhere!

 

Didn't Urias have a broken hamate bone this winter? Those tend to heal slowly and make for lost power even after the player is able to return to active duty. This is an older article, but says

 

Overall, we see a good amount of individuality to each player's return from hamate surgery, but a very rough estimation puts these six at around a full season's worth of games to be played before power numbers begin to stabilize after surgery

 

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2014/5/2/5672834/hamate-fractures-and-power-in-the-pitchfx-era

 

Between that and the strange season, not to mention his relative youth, I really don't take his performance as fully indicative of his future value. He might well never be any better than this, but I wouldn't bet on that.

[Eye Black]

In addition to the broken hamate bone and no Spring Training he then tested positive for COVID and was isolated to his apartment for nearly a month and did no baseball activity (including missing Summer Camp).

[djoctagone]

I can't really tell if this is about Grisham, Urias, Arcia, or what anymore. Mods feel free to move this if it belongs elsewhere!

 

Didn't Urias have a broken hamate bone this winter? Those tend to heal slowly and make for lost power even after the player is able to return to active duty. This is an older article, but says.

there's a thread devoted to urias' injury.