Grisham

[Bulldogboy]

Trent Grisham with a three homer game tonight. Seven bombs on the year. It never made sense to me to trade this guy considering what he accomplished last season. In the big picture the problem with the trade to me was you spent money on Garcia instead of letting this kid have a shot to play every day. That money could have been spent in another direction. I understand you have to give to get but an organization drafts a kid in the first round. He struggles and then all of a sudden the light goes on. He rakes and comes up and helps you win. Then you give up?? I didn't like it then and I hate it know. Left handed stick with some speed who can play center which he is doing?? What am I missing?? Stearns off season press conference has to start with this question. Why did you give up so easily on Trent Grisham? Throw in another great start by Davies and it's like the Brewers were just making deals to make deals. We are not better because of this deal and it never appeared we would be. Paying a 29 year old Garcia who does not profile as a star player is the kind of deal the Brewers cannot afford to make.

[wildcat2237]

Trent Grisham with a three homer game tonight. Seven bombs on the year. It never made sense to me to trade this guy considering what he accomplished last season. In the big picture the problem with the trade to me was you spent money on Garcia instead of letting this kid have a shot to play every day. That money could have been spent in another direction. I understand you have to give to get but an organization drafts a kid in the first round. He struggles and then all of a sudden the light goes on. He rakes and comes up and helps you win. Then you give up?? I didn't like it then and I hate it know. Left handed stick with some speed who can play center which he is doing?? What am I missing?? Stearns off season press conference has to start with this question. Why did you give up so easily on Trent Grisham? Throw in another great start by Davies and it's like the Brewers were just making deals to make deals. We are not better because of this deal and it never appeared we would be. Paying a 29 year old Garcia who does not profile as a star player is the kind of deal the Brewers cannot afford to make.

 

Generally +1 on all of this.

 

I didnt like the Garcia signing, and would have just preferred keeping Grisham, who I expected to be an OBP machine.

 

If Grisham starts hitting for power, my god.

 

We wont know the final word on this deal for a while, but its not looking good.

[Eye Black]

Before this thread gets to far along I just want to caution against historical revisionism. A friendly reminder that less than 9 months ago we had a 16-page thread on the trade which was nearly unanimous in favor of the deal. I counted two posters that were opposed to it, and one was because they felt Zach Davies was the best player involved in the trade.

[RollieTime]

The Brewers got a top 25 prospect in the game that plays a premium position for 6 seasons and 5 seasons of a pitcher with two solid seasons for a track record of sub 4 ERA if you remove his Colorado starts.

 

Davies was a good not great starting pitcher that only had 2 years left of control and Grisham was nothing special outside of a hot few months. He was a first round pick that was always young for his level, but really wasn’t standing out like you would hope he would prior to that.

 

One other point that may get overlooked is that is it at least possible that Grisham may have wanted to start over new somewhere else after his error in the Wild Card Game? After the Wild Card Game, I mentioned that Grisham may have played his last game with Milwaukee after the error. Whether he believed that fans would never forgive him or he felt that he let an entire city down, or something of the like, he certainly could have approached Stearns and said that he would appreciate a new start elsewhere. These are humans after all that feel just like the rest of us. It’s quite possible that him staying in Milwaukee just wasn’t a possibility after that game.

[SeaBass]

I understand feeling some buyers remorse, it's only natural. But evaluating this trade in a 60 game throw away season doesn't make much sense to me. Like Khris Davis and Nelson Cruz, the Brewers should be able to overcome the loss of Grisham even if he turns into a stud. Outfield is far from the most difficult position to acquire reasonably good value players. Going into this season the Brewers had Yelich, Cain, Braun and Gamel before deciding to sign Garcia. Grisham was expendable, getting a talented young SS and pitcher, both with years of control still feels like a win. I don't want to root for Grisham to play poorly just to further justify the trade. I hope he does well and has a successful, lucrative career.

[DHonks]

14 months ago and nearly everyone had written off Grisham. I still like the deal for the two high profile guys we got in return.

[brewers888]

I was in favor of this trade because I was and still am hopeful that Urias can be the answer at shortstop. It was also a positive to get a pitcher with much more team control in exchange for Davies who was nothing special.

 

As of today the deal looks horrible and hopefully that will change but this is one move I can't get on Stearns for.

[Eye Black]

One additional thing worth mentioning is Grisham had a monster game yesterday, but prior to that he had a sub-.800 OPS through his first 28 games. He was still very good, but he had also been struggling for a couple of weeks. He started the season on fire (1.021 OPS from July 24 to August 4), then went on a cold streak from August 5th to 20th (.589 OPS, just 2 extra base hits), and now has had another offensive breakout performance the past two games.

 

The one thing Grisham has done very well this season, even when he was struggling, is get on base. He has a .381 OBP on the season, and even when he was struggling he was still getting on base at >.350 clip.

 

Like SeaBass mentioned, I would prefer to root for Grisham to do well while also hoping for the best from both Urias and Lauer. It simply too early to draw any meaningful conclusions from the trade.

[MrTPlush]

I thought it was a fair trade value wise. The only difference being Urias was the more premium position...thus why we had to give up more. Looking back at the thread I remember this being incredibly early in the offseason so it was hard to really judge it because we didn’t get the domino moves. Those moves ended up Garcia and average to bad pitchers in Lindblom/Anderson. That’s what irks me the most. We made a bunch of payroll cost cutting moves in the rotation (Anderson/Davies) to fill it with junk. The trade effectively made our 2020 team worse at the time of the trade and Stearns didn’t do anything to really change that fact. The offense just kept getting constructed as cheaply and poorly as possible. Ironically the only moves I truly liked (Holt and Narvaez) were the biggest 2020 duds of all.

 

We still have the highest ceiling player in my opinion so this trade is far from a closed book and written into history. It was a big dud for the 2020 team though (so far).

[adambr2]

I understand feeling some buyers remorse, it's only natural. But evaluating this trade in a 60 game throw away season doesn't make much sense to me. Like Khris Davis and Nelson Cruz, the Brewers should be able to overcome the loss of Grisham even if he turns into a stud. Outfield is far from the most difficult position to acquire reasonably good value players. Going into this season the Brewers had Yelich, Cain, Braun and Gamel before deciding to sign Garcia. Grisham was expendable, getting a talented young SS and pitcher, both with years of control still feels like a win. I don't want to root for Grisham to play poorly just to further justify the trade. I hope he does well and has a successful, lucrative career.

 

I agree with all this except the part about Grisham being expendable. Braun and Cain do not make anyone expendable at this point in their careers, and Ben Gamel doesn't make anyone expendable because he's Ben Gamel.

 

Urias may be worth the price, but Grisham is greatly missed in our outfield and future OF.

[WV Brew]

I still say Grisham is not a centerfielder. Ray is much better and Harrison light years beyond both. Anybody can stand out there and make routine plays. Having said that, I don't like Urias as a shortstop either. I don't think he can stick there. He will spend most of his career at second base.

 

Current Brewers OF has to be among the worst in baseball. Yelich is historically bad right now, Garcia has no range and neither does Braun. Pretty much any non routine fly ball is guaranteed extra bases.

[trwi7]

14 months ago and nearly everyone had written off Grisham. I still like the deal for the two high profile guys we got in return.

 

We got one high profile guy in return.

[Thurston Fluff]

If we trade someone who had one good year and they do well we gave up on them too soon. If we don't trade someone who had one good year and they don't do well we didn't trade when their value was at its highest.

[Never Outhustled]

Before this thread gets to far along I just want to caution against historical revisionism. A friendly reminder that less than 9 months ago we had a 16-page thread on the trade which was nearly unanimous in favor of the deal. I counted two posters that were opposed to it, and one was because they felt Zach Davies was the best player involved in the trade.

 

 

Some of us were too disgusted to share our opinion. Grisham is everything we needed going forward.

[AdvantageSchneider]

Not to rain on his parade but he hit the 3 homers off two rookies and a journeyman with a career era of 4.97. Looks like the Astros were trying to do a bullpen game and didn't use any of their A list or even b list pitchers. It's clear Trent can hit this level of AAA pitching. Can he hit consistent quality major league pitching? That question will be answered another day.

[TURBO]

Not to rain on his parade but he hit the 3 homers off two rookies and a journeyman with a career era of 4.97. Looks like the Astros were trying to do a bullpen game and didn't use any of their A list or even b list pitchers. It's clear Trent can hit this level of AAA pitching. Can he hit consistent quality major league pitching? That question will be answered another day.

 

Understood, but no other player on the Padres jacked 3 homers off those same pitchers last night.

 

I'm all for giving credit where credit is due myself...

[umphrey]

I don’t think many people thought of Grisham as a true 1 year wonder on his way back to AAA. I wish we still had him but I kind of still feel like we need Urías more since he can move Hiura to DH or Arcia to the bench depending on how things go. Grisham wouldn’t solve our OF problems right now, mainly because we still wouldn’t have a real CF, just yet another LF/DH/poor defensive CF.

[timpep]

I don’t think many people thought of Grisham as a true 1 year wonder on his way back to AAA. I wish we still had him but I kind of still feel like we need Urías more since he can move Hiura to DH or Arcia to the bench depending on how things go. Grisham wouldn’t solve our OF problems right now, mainly because we still wouldn’t have a real CF, just yet another LF/DH/poor defensive CF.

 

Defensive metrics aren't worth much, but fangraphs has him(Grisham) as the best defensive center fielder in 2020 so far.. for what it's worth.

[Eye Black]

I don’t think many people thought of Grisham as a true 1 year wonder on his way back to AAA. I wish we still had him but I kind of still feel like we need Urías more since he can move Hiura to DH or Arcia to the bench depending on how things go. Grisham wouldn’t solve our OF problems right now, mainly because we still wouldn’t have a real CF, just yet another LF/DH/poor defensive CF.

 

Defensive metrics aren't worth much, but fangraphs has his as the best defensive center fielder in 2020 so far.. for what it's worth.

He is getting great jumps. He isn’t necessarily your prototypical flashy center fielder that’s going to rob a ball at the wall or make insane diving catches, but he has been good in centerfield so far from what I’ve seen.

[SeaBass]

I understand feeling some buyers remorse, it's only natural. But evaluating this trade in a 60 game throw away season doesn't make much sense to me. Like Khris Davis and Nelson Cruz, the Brewers should be able to overcome the loss of Grisham even if he turns into a stud. Outfield is far from the most difficult position to acquire reasonably good value players. Going into this season the Brewers had Yelich, Cain, Braun and Gamel before deciding to sign Garcia. Grisham was expendable, getting a talented young SS and pitcher, both with years of control still feels like a win. I don't want to root for Grisham to play poorly just to further justify the trade. I hope he does well and has a successful, lucrative career.

 

I agree with all this except the part about Grisham being expendable. Braun and Cain do not make anyone expendable at this point in their careers, and Ben Gamel doesn't make anyone expendable because he's Ben Gamel.

 

Urias may be worth the price, but Grisham is greatly missed in our outfield and future OF.

I think we'll be just fine. I didn't mean he was expendable in a throwaway trade, fortunately that wasn't the type of trade the Brewers made. Urias has the potential and past performance to be a significantly better player than Grisham all by himself. Urias has played close to 200 games more than Grisham in their careers so far and has close to 100 fewer strikeouts. I feel a lot better about replacing Arcia with that type of player than I am worried about finding someone to replace Grisham's numbers in the outfield.

[trwi7]

Subscription required but nice article on Grisham from when he was an amateur, to his time in the minors (surprise! Brewers tried to get him to change his grip on the bat and he struggled) to now.

 

https://theathletic.com/2018402/2020/08/25/hes-making-his-mark-trent-grishams-journey-to-the-top-of-the-padres-lineup/

[Jopal78]

I kind of figured Grisham was a flash in the pan in 2019, one step from being a minor league FA he gets hot and carries it all the way to Milwaukee.. I recall in the wild card game Jeff Francouer commented that he was surprised Grisham could generate any power with the golf grip on the bat, and I figured it would only be a matter of time before pitchers figured out where he couldn't hit it well using that grip.

 

Time will ultimately make or break this trade for the Brewers, in the short-run its a bust reminiscent of another move (Khris Davis for Nottingham and Bubba Derby) trading young players with team control for different not necessarily better young players. Fortunately, with Anderson pitching well, and further development of Peralta, Burnes, and Houser they haven't really missed Zach Davies yet.

[monty57]

I think Stearns really wanted Urias, and figured he was "selling high" on Grisham and "buying low" on Urias. Urias was a much higher ranked prospect. Personally, I hope both of them have great careers.

 

The second part of the deal was Davies / Lauer. Davies probably had more value due to his MLB success, and this was probably necessary to make up for Urias probably having more value than Grisham. My hope at the time of the trade was that we got someone who could become a LH version of Davies with more control, but obviously he hasn't proven himself at the MLB level yet. When/if he does, we will get a middle-of-the-rotation starter for five years. Nothing sexy, but there's a lot of value there.

[Eye Black]

Posting this from Baseball Trade Values because I found it interesting, but I do not agree with the current valuations being this varied between Grisham and Urías...

 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Posting this from Baseball Trade Values because I found it interesting, but I do not agree with the current valuations being this varied between Grisham and Urías...

 

 

That website is sketchy. It cut Urias's value by roughly half minutes after he was dealt to the Brewers.