Thom Brennaman

[JohnBriggs12]

Escobar thing was 8 years ago too. Same sex marriage was still banned in WI in 2012. Not equating that with this kind of behavior, but the needle has moved remarkably fast on this stuff. We are much closer to zero tolerance than we were in 2012.

 

In other words, the cancel culture is much more entrenched so ruining a person's life and career over an offhand word or two is much more accepted. I'm not defending what he said, but he didn't assault anyone.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Escobar thing was 8 years ago too. Same sex marriage was still banned in WI in 2012. Not equating that with this kind of behavior, but the needle has moved remarkably fast on this stuff. We are much closer to zero tolerance than we were in 2012.

 

In other words, the cancel culture is much more entrenched so ruining a person's life and career over an offhand word or two is much more accepted. I'm not defending what he said, but he didn't assault anyone.

 

Yeah I'm sorry, but I use the phrase "cancel culture" a lot, and I have a lot of problems with that "movement," and this is just not a good example of it. People that keep saying that are really missing the point with why this was a big deal.

 

This wasn't an offhand word or two. This is a guy very casually dropping a term in the exact context that makes it so offensive. For example, if a video surfaced of two MLB players goofing off in the hotel, and one of them had said "Knock it off you (Thom word)," it's still probably forcing an apology and some uproar, but it's in a completely different context that can be explained as an inappropriate slip. It's still not going to be condoned and it shouldn't be, but he's using it in a dated colloquial way.

 

Brenneman used it to disparage an entire group of people deliberately. The way it was said is a strong indicator that he's used it often, and clearly had no qualms about saying it at work, loudly. This wasn't a recorded conversation in his kitchen.

 

The context in which you use a bad word matters, a lot. If Josh Hader's incident had been dug up by someone finding him ranting N this and N that on a KKK board, it would be far less forgivable than an edge lord teen repeating stuff he heard in rap songs for shock value.

 

It's disingenuous to blow this off as an overreaction to a naughty word.

[HiAndTight]

I find it more believable that he didn't know the real power the word than I would if it were someone my age. That word was still used all the time when I was in high school 15 years ago. It was said basically every play in high school football. But my generation is also the one that really started to reject it in any form and now I don't really know anyone that uses it that I hang out with.

 

It's plausible to me on some level that a much older guy who's not active on social media wouldn't really have a good handle on it.

 

The word was used in the 1970s, sure, but it was not in the same no-go territory that it is now. That happened pretty recently. I don't think is a career ender in 1998.

 

But it seems more likely he or someone close to him counselled him on this being the only feasible way he gets back in a booth again. I can't think of another path there.

 

 

Yeah, I'm completely with you...a couple years older, but we used that word CONSTANTLY. Just the one sylable, not the two. And to me that genuinely took away the homophobic aspect of it and just made it another type of insult entirely.

 

Louie CK is certainly not a shinning beacon for how one should act, BUT he does have a whole joke about this that was HUGE because it did resonate with a lot of people.

 

But the thing here.....A, you're an adult, you're 58 years old and you're in media. You have to be pretty obtuse to NOT know that it's rooted in hate.

And B-EVEN if you were trying to use the "logic" that me and all my friends used back in HS, that it wasn't about being gay, it was about being annoying or soft or whatever(and there were a couple gay guys we hung around with who'd hurl it back at us...for what little that is worth) don't pretend you don't actually know what the word means or that it's rooted in hate. Even if you're using it differently.

 

Long story short, I could get past someone saying THOSE exact words and coming back at some point if he'd said them in a very different way, but the way that he said them and to then pretend you're just totally ignorant about the hatred behind them. That's...more gauling.

[HiAndTight]

I feel for his poor coworkers who likely have to deal with a homophobe on a daily basis.

 

Even if the mic wasn’t hot he should have been fired for saying that while on the job.

 

Give me a break.

 

 

What break would you like?

 

I've had to work with people who see another white guy and think it's perfectly alright to just start using these types of awful slurs.

 

It's obnoxious if he's using hate speech all the time and just assuming everyone else at his place of work is alright with it because his ego is SO large that he just assumes most people think like he does.

 

 

I mean...that might be a bit dramatic since we don't know how he talks on a daily basis, but I think the assumption is if you're that lose when you're about to go on air and you have a mic on, you're probably a REAL clown after 3-4 beers after the game or on the road trips.

 

And I'm sure there are gay people working there. It's almost kinda funny(if it weren't so insulting) the way people of his ilk think about Gay people. As If they're all marching down a gay pride parade wearing the chaps and leather and playing up that stereotype to a 10. MOST gay guys I know...you'd have zero clue(and for a REAL good friend I grew up playing FB and BB with who is ~6'2 220 and was a helluva MLB'er) he'd really put the stereotype on it's head.

 

 

So I'm assuming the "give me a break" was because you don't actually think it's that big of a problem working with him...and that MAY be true if he isn't like that normally, but if he is, I'll bet he's been homophobic in front of at LEAST a couple gay men who work there and I'm sure that is extremely harmful to those people.

[HiAndTight]

There's so much more gray area and room for interpretation with what DeSean Jackson did. It's drenched in context. It was bad, and I'm not a fan of his at all, but there are a bunch of different arguments as to his point and that was in the middle of an ongoing discussion re: black rights. He also clearly didn't research what he posted at all.

 

There's no context in which you can explain what Brenneman said. The two things just aren't the same.

 

 

 

What Jackson said was just SOO much more ignorant...and in a way that makes it so much LESS harmful.

 

He didn't know what he was saying, the whole thing there is a mess.

 

But two points.

 

A-Athletes are going to be able to get away with saying much-much more. Riley Cooper dropped the N-bomb in a very aggressive way and was suspended a week(From practice during camp) and then got a 3 year extension).

 

B-On air personality, their entire job is to be refined speakers. To be inordinately articulate. You don't expect that out of every professional athlete. Some are...some are not.

 

 

So I wouldn't compare a player and an athlete to begin with even ignoring the players unions and other reasons why you can come back from that. But just in this specific case, it really sounded like Jackson was just spewing some ignorant nonsense he'd heard someone else say and was just...ignorant about the actual context of what he was saying.

[Greenleaf1]

Just to be clear.

 

It's not ok to use that word in any context.

 

It's not the right of straight people to reappropriate that word just so they can use it and pretend it isn't hurtful or somehow benign or detached from its original meaning.

 

Brennaman's context obviously makes the usage even worse, but saying it at all was grounds for firing.

 

I'll step away from this thread now, because I think trying to debate/discuss something like this is kind of pointless. We should all know this is wrong, we should all know that society has finally gotten to the place where we won't stand for crap like this anymore, no exceptions.

[HiAndTight]

Escobar thing was 8 years ago too. Same sex marriage was still banned in WI in 2012. Not equating that with this kind of behavior, but the needle has moved remarkably fast on this stuff. We are much closer to zero tolerance than we were in 2012.

 

In other words, the cancel culture is much more entrenched so ruining a person's life and career over an offhand word or two is much more accepted. I'm not defending what he said, but he didn't assault anyone.

 

 

 

I really have a strong disdain for the words "cancel culture." "For people who are in favor of it, for people who actually say, "lets cancel" a certain celebrity because they did blackface on SNL 20 years ago.

 

It's just an annoying words that IMO has come about because twitter and people on twitter think(perhaps correctly so) they have FAR too much power and influence in the world and whatever offends their delicate sensibilities should offend everyone's and therefore we should "cancel" that person.

 

 

I don't really see this as "canceling" him so much as his bosses...who run businesses know what he said was offensive, they know that a portion of their audience is going to be disgusted(though not a large enough portion from the Reds Message Boards I've read) and they're making a decision...not because people on twitter are telling them to, but because it's just basic common sense.

 

 

Also...he DID verbally assault a whole group of people. But yeah, it'st a false comparison to try and equate a player using homophobic slurs and the light sentence he got vs a play-by-play guy using a homophobic slur and then trying to draw some connection to "cancel culture" in this country.

 

 

Announcers have been getting fired for the ignorant things they've been saying on air for decades and there usually isn't a whole lot of wiggle room.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Just to be clear.

 

It's not ok to use that word in any context.

 

It's not the right of straight people to reappropriate that word just so they can use it and pretend it isn't hurtful or somehow benign or detached from its original meaning.

 

Brennaman's context obviously makes the usage even worse, but saying it at all was grounds for firing.

 

I'll step away from this thread now, because I think trying to debate/discuss something like this is kind of pointless. We should all know this is wrong, we should all know that society has finally gotten to the place where we won't stand for crap like this anymore, no exceptions.

 

I don't think anyone has said it's OK to use, but you conceding that it's worse in the context means that one use can be worse than another. It's grounds for firing for any broadcaster of his stature to screw up that badly. But I have no problem separating the degrees of offensiveness between say, Josh Hader and John Rocker.

[HiAndTight]

Just to be clear.

 

It's not ok to use that word in any context.

 

It's not the right of straight people to reappropriate that word just so they can use it and pretend it isn't hurtful or somehow benign or detached from its original meaning.

 

Brennaman's context obviously makes the usage even worse, but saying it at all was grounds for firing.

 

I'll step away from this thread now, because I think trying to debate/discuss something like this is kind of pointless. We should all know this is wrong, we should all know that society has finally gotten to the place where we won't stand for crap like this anymore, no exceptions.

 

 

If you're in England and you're asking to bumb a smoke?

 

 

Yeah, it's a equally ridiculous question because nobody's arguing it's alright to say it in a flippant way. I haven't seen one justification for still using that term? So the ONLY thing I can point to is you taking what I said or MAYBE what OldSchool said about how people have in the past used it in a different context...while fully acknowledging that it was NOT alright.

 

We're all in agreement, it's a bad word to say. It's unequivocally bad. I do think a good point was made about how it's LESS offensive in certain situations and that point was made by OldSchool, but nobody said "well, it's fine if you said it in this context." One argument was made that it would be MORE understandable and perhaps not as clear of an indicator of his true sentiments had he said it in that context.

[HiAndTight]

Just to be clear.

 

It's not ok to use that word in any context.

 

It's not the right of straight people to reappropriate that word just so they can use it and pretend it isn't hurtful or somehow benign or detached from its original meaning.

 

Brennaman's context obviously makes the usage even worse, but saying it at all was grounds for firing.

 

I'll step away from this thread now, because I think trying to debate/discuss something like this is kind of pointless. We should all know this is wrong, we should all know that society has finally gotten to the place where we won't stand for crap like this anymore, no exceptions.

 

I don't think anyone has said it's OK to use, but you conceding that it's worse in the context means that one use can be worse than another. It's grounds for firing for any broadcaster of his stature to screw up that badly. But I have no problem separating the degrees of offensiveness between say, Josh Hader and John Rocker.

 

 

Right. Exactly this. We need to be able to show more common sense as a society. Digging up OLD comments a person made and then labeling them a bigot of homophobic or racist from there on is ignorant and foolish.

 

There are degrees...or at least there SHOULD be. Just like with the law, there should also be degrees in society.

 

Someone gets a pie in the face and says in a laughing manner, "oh you _____" that's obviously wrong, but it's different from a 58 year old man who's on a hotel mic throwing it out there and using it in reference to a city.

 

 

Every single wrong doing shouldn't have the same amount of outrage, less that outrage becomes part of the background and eventually it's meaningless.

 

 

Anyway, like Fox and the Reds....I'm done with Thom. I've posted enough I think and made every point I wanted to. As Hawk would say, "HE GONE," so...it seems like a pretty well settled discussion.

[Thurston Fluff]

If anyone is still on the fence about whether or not what Brennaman said was bad, note that Curt Schilling has come out in support of him.

 

 

If Lenny Dykstra chimes in we'll have reached the trifecta of awfulness.

[markedman5]

I’m 62.......it was a common insult in my youth.......I can’t remember the last time I used that word or even heard it from anyone in my circle of friends or acquaintances.

 

I hate the idea that someone can lose a career over something like this.....I believe in 2nd chances in most cases but that is for his bosses to decide.

 

He has put them in a very difficult position.

[thebruce44]

I find it more believable that he didn't know the real power the word than I would if it were someone my age. That word was still used all the time when I was in high school 15 years ago. It was said basically every play in high school football. But my generation is also the one that really started to reject it in any form and now I don't really know anyone that uses it that I hang out with.

 

It's plausible to me on some level that a much older guy who's not active on social media wouldn't really have a good handle on it.

 

The word was used in the 1970s, sure, but it was not in the same no-go territory that it is now. That happened pretty recently. I don't think is a career ender in 1998.

 

But it seems more likely he or someone close to him counselled him on this being the only feasible way he gets back in a booth again. I can't think of another path there.

 

 

Yeah, I'm completely with you...a couple years older, but we used that word CONSTANTLY. Just the one sylable, not the two. And to me that genuinely took away the homophobic aspect of it and just made it another type of insult entirely.

 

Louie CK is certainly not a shinning beacon for how one should act, BUT he does have a whole joke about this that was HUGE because it did resonate with a lot of people.

But the thing here.....A, you're an adult, you're 58 years old and you're in media. You have to be pretty obtuse to NOT know that it's rooted in hate.

And B-EVEN if you were trying to use the "logic" that me and all my friends used back in HS, that it wasn't about being gay, it was about being annoying or soft or whatever(and there were a couple gay guys we hung around with who'd hurl it back at us...for what little that is worth) don't pretend you don't actually know what the word means or that it's rooted in hate. Even if you're using it differently.

 

Long story short, I could get past someone saying THOSE exact words and coming back at some point if he'd said them in a very different way, but the way that he said them and to then pretend you're just totally ignorant about the hatred behind them. That's...more gauling.

 

I assume that is what Brennaman was getting at in his apology: Brennaman says he didn't realize the homophobic f-word was "so rooted in hate and violence" -- and says he vows to never use it again.

 

When I heard that Louie CK bit and learned the history surrounding the word it makes you reflect on how freely it used to be thrown around in sports when we were kids. Prior to the Louie CK bit, I just knew it as a word that was hurtful and one that I would never use.

 

If anything good comes from this, maybe some people will be educated on just how despicable the word actually is.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I’m 62.......it was a common insult in my youth.......I can’t remember the last time I used that word or even heard it from anyone in my circle of friends or acquaintances.

 

I hate the idea that someone can lose a career over something like this.....I believe in 2nd chances in most cases but that is for his bosses to decide.

 

He has put them in a very difficult position.

 

Here's where I'm at too. I hate that something like this can literally cost a guy his career. But every time I think the guy should get a second chance you think about this kind of language and what it says about his character and what he thinks about people.

 

For those that say "you use vulgar language too" . Yup. I swear. I say the f-word. But I don't use language that belittles and wounds an entire group of people. And most decent people don't. And that's the difference.

[rickh150]

I’m 62.......it was a common insult in my youth.......I can’t remember the last time I used that word or even heard it from anyone in my circle of friends or acquaintances.

 

I hate the idea that someone can lose a career over something like this.....I believe in 2nd chances in most cases but that is for his bosses to decide.

 

He has put them in a very difficult position.

 

Here's where I'm at too. I hate that something like this can literally cost a guy his career. But every time I think the guy should get a second chance you think about this kind of language and what it says about his character and what he thinks about people.

 

For those that say "you use vulgar language too" . Yup. I swear. I say the f-word. But I don't use language that belittles and wounds an entire group of people. And most decent people don't. And that's the difference.

 

I think Thom's character is pretty much like most of us...

[PeaveyFury]

I think Thom's character is pretty much like most of us...

 

If you truly believe that's true, than you're basically stating that 'most of us' are racist/bigoted/etc. and choose to belittle marginalized people as a result.

 

I truly don't think that's accurate on a 'most of us' level, regardless of how negatively we can perhaps view society as a whole right now.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I’m 62.......it was a common insult in my youth.......I can’t remember the last time I used that word or even heard it from anyone in my circle of friends or acquaintances.

 

I hate the idea that someone can lose a career over something like this.....I believe in 2nd chances in most cases but that is for his bosses to decide.

 

He has put them in a very difficult position.

 

Here's where I'm at too. I hate that something like this can literally cost a guy his career. But every time I think the guy should get a second chance you think about this kind of language and what it says about his character and what he thinks about people.

 

For those that say "you use vulgar language too" . Yup. I swear. I say the f-word. But I don't use language that belittles and wounds an entire group of people. And most decent people don't. And that's the difference.

 

I think Thom's character is pretty much like most of us...

 

I think you're very wrong.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

I think Thom's character is pretty much like most of us...

 

No, it's not. Typical upstanding humans don't use that type of language ... especially not casually in a conversation.

[TigerUppercut]

I think Thom's character is pretty much like most of us...

 

If you truly believe that's true, than you're basically stating that 'most of us' are racist/bigoted/etc. and choose to belittle marginalized people as a result.

 

I truly don't think that's accurate on a 'most of us' level, regardless of how negatively we can perhaps view society as a whole right now.

 

Thom Brennaman used a bigoted word and it seems because of that, you're making the leap that he must be a bigot if you assume his character is not like others here. You don't know the man.

 

While they won't admit it, I'd be willing to bet that 80% (and I'm thinking that may be conservative) of posters here have used the same word he used on the telecast at some point in their lives. Are they all bigots and of poor character because of it? Based on your post, the answer seems to be yes. Sorry, I disagree and it's reallly not your position to be making assesments on anyone's character beyond your own or your kids. Heard the old "glass houses" line? Careful, it never takes much digging to turn up a few skeletons on the 'holier than thou' crowd.

[JimH5]

I think Thom's character is pretty much like most of us...

 

If you truly believe that's true, than you're basically stating that 'most of us' are racist/bigoted/etc. and choose to belittle marginalized people as a result.

 

I truly don't think that's accurate on a 'most of us' level, regardless of how negatively we can perhaps view society as a whole right now.

 

Thom Brennaman used a bigoted word and it seems because of that, you're making the leap that he must be a bigot if you assume his character is not like others here. You don't know the man.

 

While they won't admit it, I'd be willing to bet that 80% (and I'm thinking that may be conservative) of posters here have used the same word he used on the telecast at some point in their lives. Are they all bigots and of poor character because of it? Based on your post, the answer seems to be yes. Sorry, I disagree and it's reallly not your position to be making assesments on anyone's character beyond your own or your kids. Heard the old "glass houses" line? Careful, it never takes much digging to turn up a few skeletons on the 'holier than thou' crowd.

 

I'm not holier than anybody and I have used the word. And I stopped using it after I was a high school student, 40+ years ago.

 

It's not Brennaman's character that got him in trouble, it was his conduct.

 

Rick, if you're suggesting that like Thom Brennaman, we all have character flaws, then I agree. If you're suggesting that we all use hateful language that is harmful to people, I disagree.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Nobody here to my knowledge is a professional broadcaster. As such brenneman is open to a lot more criticism than your average message board poster. Casting stones that have no target is a dangerous game.

 

Accusing people of things that they may or may not have said with no knowledge of it is an exercise in futility. We know brenneman said what he said and the context is pretty clear. He's a public figure. He's open to all the scrutiny that he's receiving right now.

 

If someone wants to use denigrating language towards groups or races in their private discussions, well that's on them. if they want to say that it's okay because other people do it, I guess that's on them as well. If You're going to come into a thread and say I do it and other people do it, you probably should have some thing to back it up, instead of just casting a wide net.

[PeaveyFury]

I think Thom's character is pretty much like most of us...

 

If you truly believe that's true, than you're basically stating that 'most of us' are racist/bigoted/etc. and choose to belittle marginalized people as a result.

 

I truly don't think that's accurate on a 'most of us' level, regardless of how negatively we can perhaps view society as a whole right now.

 

Thom Brennaman used a bigoted word and it seems because of that, you're making the leap that he must be a bigot if you assume his character is not like others here. You don't know the man.

 

Sorry, I disagree. His behavior showed a window into who he is. You don’t need to know anything, not a single other thing, about a person to know that when they use the N word, they’re a racist, for example. A person who belittles or degrades a class of people is a bigot, literally by definition.

[SRB]

Brennamen:

 

homophobic slur

 

Uecker:

 

[tmwiese55]

Yea it's context. N bomb singing along to rap song, that's one thing. Making the leap to bigot from that is tough. Saying it to describe why you hate the inner city of wherever city because of the Ns. That's way way way different. And that's how and the tone he was using it here.

[owbc]

If the stories I've heard about Bob Uecker are true then it's kind of amazing he hasn't been picked up saying something stupid on a hot mic. Not that Bob would ever say something as terrible as Thom's comment, but Uecker's rumored skill with the mute button just adds to his legend IMO.