Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns

[homer]

Someone should go back and see how many posts on average this thread gets after a loss and how many after a win.

[PeaveyFury]

Someone should go back and see how many posts on average this thread gets after a loss and how many after a win.

 

Right? This season was a jumbled mess for obvious reasons. I think drawing any conclusions on much of anything based off of 30-whatever games is difficult.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

To answer the question in the topic title, if anything, the attitude of the fan base this year has caused me to lose more confidence in their ability to accurately identify the quality of what we have and who we have in control vs. any sort of assessment of the front office's abilities....

 

I think it's definitely a case of being a squeaky wheel. Unfortunately that's what having a run of success as a franchise does, though. If fans get a taste of success, they want more ... and when that success no longer meets their outsized expectations, someone needs to take the blame. Unfortunately, the way baseball's economic structure is set up does nothing to help the Brewers put together any sort of long-term success. People say things like "Oh, Attanasio has money, why can't he just take a loss to bring in better talent?" That just isn't feasible, or smart long term. If the Brewers jacked their payroll up to $130 million, fans would be upset it isn't at $150 million ... and so on and so on.

 

Right now this team is in a solid position. They have several franchise cornerstone-types that will be here for the next several seasons in Yelich, Hiura, Urias, Narvaez (I still have hope), Woodruff, Burnes, Peralta, Hader, and to a lesser extent Rasmussen and Suter. Yes, I believe that they can do a better job identifying the pieces needed to fill in around those cornerstones, but a huge part of the team's struggles this year rest on the shoulders of the two guys - Yelich and Hiura - expected to carry the offense. If those guys were even performing close to where their talent level lies, and where expectations for them were coming into the season, this team would be firmly in the playoff hunt. Heck, even with those guys performing terrible, this team is one hot week away from being right back in it.

 

So yeah, there have been a few too many perceived "misses" for my liking, but the idea of lost confidence in the front office and the overall direction they have the franchise pointed in is pretty crazy.

[pacopete4]

It is so easy to be negative right now. This season over 162 games could have went poorly too but to judge anything during this mess is just not a good way to go about things. If anything, the signings that did occur do not hurt us for any year other than this season so we should be able to take another run at it come this offseason. I mean, we are bouncing off back to back playoff appearances. These types of threads and complaints are hard for me. It comes off poorly considering how terrible this franchise truly has been.

[PeaveyFury]

It is so easy to be negative right now. This season over 162 games could have went poorly too but to judge anything during this mess is just not a good way to go about things. If anything, the signings that did occur do not hurt us for any year other than this season so we should be able to take another run at it come this offseason. I mean, we are bouncing off back to back playoff appearances. These types of threads and complaints are hard for me. It comes off poorly considering how terrible this franchise truly has been.

 

Pretty much where I'm at as well. Of course every one of us wanted (still wants?) this season to go better, but I'm not willing to start making long-term judgements after 30-some days. The organization can and will reevaluate in the off season, which is also 30-whatever days away, and the have very little tied up into anything that would prevent them from overhauling the roster again if they want.

[Jopal78]

No, it's the generally poor job they did overall as far as actual results and the high amount of whiffs each of them were responsible for that suggest that. I firmly believe that a guy like Epstein is just a guy if he doesn't have the deep pockets of the Boston and Chicago markets behind him. Yep, he used the deep pockets of his owner and bought Chicago the singular World Series title the fans were so desperate to have, while bungling away a more sustained ability to compete. Making them the 'fart in the wind' that Ron Wolf so eloquently referred to 'one-and-done' teams as. And for the monstrous payroll that Friedman has had in LA, coupled with massive free agent signings and a good farm system, by my count he has as many World Series rings as Stearns does.

 

Winning in Milwaukee is hard. There's a huge, natural disadvantage. Melvin was able to overcome that to a degree, and Stearns has proven the ability to elevate that to a much higher new level.

 

To answer the question in the topic title, if anything, the attitude of the fan base this year has caused me to lose more confidence in their ability to accurately identify the qualify of what we have and who we have in control vs. any sort of assessment of the front office's abilities....

 

Correction: winning in baseball is hard, not just Milwaukee. If you honestly think Epstein has done a poor job, you just haven't been paying attention to baseball beyond the Brewers. Epstein is responsible for drafting/procuring a plethora of amateur players who became starters or will likely be starters in the major leagues for over decade: Mookie Betts (5th roudn) Jed Lowrie, Jacoby Ellsbury, Jackie Bradley Jr., Dustin Pedroia, Jonathon Papelbon, Josh Reddick, Anthony Rizzo (then traded for him in Chicago!), Xander Bogaerts, Kris Bryant, Kyle Schwarber amongst others. Epstein also picked up a Hall of Famer when the Twins non-tendered David Ortiz.

 

You can denigrate these guys all you want for the ability to sign big name free agents, but that's not half the story of Cashman, Epstein etc.'s success.

 

And if (likely) six consecutive winning seasons, four consecutive playoff appearances, a world series title is under some logic a fart in the wind. Brewer fans could be only so lucky to be gas emitted from that anus on a windy day.

 

But back to the point, I haven't lost confidence in Stearns. He's a good not great GM who walked into a situation where the bar was set incredibly low and got his team to the NLCS. He hasn't been on the job long enough to really judge his amateur player procurement yet. On the pro-side, like I said, he traded for a guy who went out and won an MVP and is arguably one of the top 5 players in the league which in my book will still give him lots of cover for misses like Sogard, Lindblom, etc.

[PeaveyFury]

Epstein is responsible for drafting/procuring a plethora of amateur players who became starters or will likely be starters in the major leagues for over decade: Mookie Betts (5th roudn) Jed Lowrie, Jacoby Ellsbury, Jackie Bradley Jr., Dustin Pedroia, Jonathon Papelbon, Josh Reddick, Anthony Rizzo (then traded for him in Chicago!), Xander Bogaerts, Kris Bryant, Kyle Schwarber amongst others. Epstein also picked up a Hall of Famer when the Twins non-tendered David Ortiz.

 

I suppose Epstein can take credit for appointing his scouting director, who is the person actually responsible for the drafting of those players. I suppose he could also get credit for retaining his eventual successor as GM in Boston, who was left to clean up the mess he left there and did so fairly successfully.

 

You can denigrate these guys all you want for the ability to sign big name free agents, but that's not half the story of Cashman, Epstein etc.'s success.

 

No, it's not half, as I think it's much more than that.

 

And if (likely) six consecutive winning seasons, four consecutive playoff appearances, a world series title is under some logic a fart in the wind.

 

It certainly is under Ron Wolf's logic. Taking an ultra-talented team that should have won more and ending up feeling like you left a lot on the table is exactly where the Cubs are. That team was setup to win far more then they actually did, and you can point right to the top as the reason why. Are Cubs fans fine with one title? Sure. Would Brewer fans happily accept one title at this point too? Sure. But just like Packer fans who now look back at the Ron Wolf/Brett Favre/Aaron Rodgers eras, you realize after the fact that you really should have ended up with a heck of a lot more than you actually did.

[3and2Fastball]

I haven’t seen mention of the Cain signing. Maybe I missed it. That was a tremendous signing and a big part of why the Brewers went to the playoffs 2 straight years. He’s the type of player whose value is much more than what his stats show... and you can see the current void without him.

 

Stearns has also shown the ability to get valuable players on one year contracts. I think that will continue in future seasons.

[wibadgers23]

For me, it really comes down to being able to draft and develop players better than we have in the past. Even in the Stearns era, it hasn’t been that good although I know we unloaded some good prospects to get Yelich. It’s pretty simple - if we can draft and develop some of these draft picks then we don’t have to go out and sign the likes of Eric Sogard and Justin Smoak to fill holes. I haven’t lost confidence in Stearns but we need to start drafting and developing better. Plain and simple.

[3and2Fastball]

For me, it really comes down to being able to draft and develop players better than we have in the past. Even in the Stearns era, it hasn’t been that good although I know we unloaded some good prospects to get Yelich. It’s pretty simple - if we can draft and develop some of these draft picks then we don’t have to go out and sign the likes of Eric Sogard and Justin Smoak to fill holes. I haven’t lost confidence in Stearns but we need to start drafting and developing better. Plain and simple.

 

Like Keston Hiura for instance? And Devin Williams?

[Jopal78]

It certainly is under Ron Wolf's logic. Taking an ultra-talented team that should have won more and ending up feeling like you left a lot on the table is exactly where the Cubs are. That team was setup to win far more then they actually did, and you can point right to the top as the reason why. Are Cubs fans fine with one title? Sure. Would Brewer fans happily accept one title at this point too? Sure. But just like Packer fans who now look back at the Ron Wolf/Brett Favre/Aaron Rodgers eras, you realize after the fact that you really should have ended up with a heck of a lot more than you actually did.

 

Well, anything Wolf says is a false equivalence when applied to baseball. He was a football GM, where if you have a Hall of Fame Quarterback and not much else you can still win 9 or more games (See Favre, Brett 2000-2004).

 

You want to knock the big market GMs for not winning more titles, how many repeat champions has there been in MLB in the last 20 years? I'll hang up and listen...

[PeaveyFury]

Well, anything Wolf says is a false equivalence when applied to baseball. He was a football GM, where if you have a Hall of Fame Quarterback and not much else you can still win 9 or more games (See Favre, Brett 2000-2004).

 

No, wasting talent is wasting talent, and that transcends throughout sports. I'd bet my next paycheck that if you asked Theo, he'd agree that they should have won more. Perhaps slightly more eloquently than Wolf put it, but I doubt he'd argue the point as you are choosing to.

 

how many repeat champions has there been in MLB in the last 20 years?

 

The same amount as there have been in the NFL, actually.

 

One need look no further than a team like the Giants, who who 3 World Series titles in 5 seasons between 2010-2014 to note how you can build a sustained winner in modern baseball.

[wibadgers23]

For me, it really comes down to being able to draft and develop players better than we have in the past. Even in the Stearns era, it hasn’t been that good although I know we unloaded some good prospects to get Yelich. It’s pretty simple - if we can draft and develop some of these draft picks then we don’t have to go out and sign the likes of Eric Sogard and Justin Smoak to fill holes. I haven’t lost confidence in Stearns but we need to start drafting and developing better. Plain and simple.

 

Like Keston Hiura for instance? And Devin Williams?

 

Ok you got me. Two whole players in 4 years. I will say they have been somewhat good at drafting pitching but outside of Hiura, we have been pretty horrible at drafting position players.

[3and2Fastball]

For me, it really comes down to being able to draft and develop players better than we have in the past. Even in the Stearns era, it hasn’t been that good although I know we unloaded some good prospects to get Yelich. It’s pretty simple - if we can draft and develop some of these draft picks then we don’t have to go out and sign the likes of Eric Sogard and Justin Smoak to fill holes. I haven’t lost confidence in Stearns but we need to start drafting and developing better. Plain and simple.

 

Like Keston Hiura for instance? And Devin Williams?

 

Ok you got me. Two whole players in 4 years. I will say they have been somewhat good at drafting pitching but outside of Hiura, we have been pretty horrible at drafting position players.

 

Meant to add: and Corbin Burnes... and Monte Harrison who helped us get Yelich.

 

How long has Stearns been the GM? How many draft picks should already be helping the major league team in that time? I still have confidence in Corey Ray being a piece of the puzzle in 2022. And the kid they drafted #1 this year, too, should be a good one.

[wibadgers23]

Yeah I really liked our draft this year and I think it has a chance to end up being a really good one but until these guys play at least one minor league game, it’s hard to get too excited. It’s just been depressing seeing our minor league system consistently ranked last the past couple years but hopefully that turns around soon. In Stearns I trust.

[3and2Fastball]

I still like the Brice Turang pick, too. Yeah I know he struggled in High A ball in 2019, and he has missed an entire season of development now (which is true for every minor leaguer of course) but he’s only 20 years old and was an LSU recruit. I think he will develop the ability to hit MLB pitching. The glove is legit. For a 21st overall pick I think it was high value, getting a bigtime SEC Shortstop recruit like that, who likely can stick at Short.

 

He’s got the genes (Dad played MLB, Mom played D1 Softball). If he had gone to LSU he’d be draft eligible next summer with the hopes of him getting on the MLB field in 2023 or 2024 or so. It’s far too early to give up on him.

 

At the same time, Stearns went out and traded for Urias, who has 6 years of control and a lot of upside too, so he’s not putting all the eggs in the Turang basket as far as Shortstop of the future.

[pacopete4]

If you get yourself caught up in the minor league rankings, I can see why you would get frustrated. But if there's anything over the past decade that shows how just looney tunes that is, it would be to trust those rankings as if they mean something. The Brewers have brought along a ton of player and received value in just about every avenue. And it is a big reason for their recent success. I stopped getting caught up in names awhile ago because they are just that. Names.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

If you get yourself caught up in the minor league rankings, I can see why you would get frustrated. But if there's anything over the past decade that shows how just looney tunes that is, it would be to trust those rankings as if they mean something. The Brewers have brought along a ton of player and received value in just about every avenue. And it is a big reason for their recent success. I stopped getting caught up in names awhile ago because they are just that. Names.

 

Yep. Case in point is the fact that the Atlanta Braves have been lauded for years by many prospect guys for the pitching talent they are supposedly developing in their system. Yet for the last few years, they've been searching under every rock in an attempt to find warm bodies to make starts for the team, at a time when many of those supposed "top prospects" should be MLB ready. I mean, they actually traded for Tommy Milone this week. Tommy Milone! If that isn't an indictment on what their pitching depth truly looks like, nothing is.

 

The Brewers have managed to graduate quite a few major league regulars over the past few years, despite their low ranking on system rankings. Yeah, that group may be lacking in superstar potential, but the idea that the system hasn't added value, or won't continue to, is false.

[MrTPlush]

1) Monte Harrison is not a David Stearns draft pick.

 

2) Brice Turang is definitely a future MLB hitter in my opinion. He stands out at his age for the teams he has played on (he was just 19 last year).

 

3) Maybe it is time to pump the brakes on the Keston Hiura success story. He has some pretty big offensive warts that are certainly dragging him down....he is also a poor defender. Drafting an all bat no defense college hitter top ten isn't a legendary pick. Unless he hits like an All Star it turns out as an okay pick. The success and value of Keston Hiura is being elite with the bat.

 

4) It is way too early to really be drawing conclusions about Stearn's drafting success...outside of maybe Corey Ray being a massive failure. How you draft a college hitter #5 and somehow half a decade later they look like they shouldn't even be in AA let alone the majors is brutal. The pick was heavily critiqued after, posters/experts thought we should have gone with a flurry of different players, and most of those guys are either already having solid MLB success or elite prospects still. Sucks he blew it so bad on the biggest pick in his time here.

[3and2Fastball]

Keston is #2 or #3 on the team currently in OPS. It’s been a brutal year offensively for the entire roster. I think it is an anomaly, he is and will be an elite hitter.

 

I saw Corey Ray score from first on a single in the gap in Spring Training this year. I also saw him hit a bomb. He shows flashes of being legit. The pick had risks in it, it might not work out, but his athleticism is superstar quality, thus is was a high ceiling/low floor type pick and at the time it was made, I get it. He’s an Acuna type talent if he can get the hitting together.

[brewers888]

Unless you think the rest of the baseball world has some bias against the Brewers we have probably the worst farm system in baseball. Part of that is bad drafts before Stearns was hired but I would guess that we still have most of the same scouts in place. There is nothing more important than having a consistent flow of good young talent coming from the minor leagues and we just don't have that.

[brewers888]

Keston is #2 or #3 on the team currently in OPS. It’s been a brutal year offensively for the entire roster. I think it is an anomaly, he is and will be an elite hitter.

 

I saw Corey Ray score from first on a single in the gap in Spring Training this year. I also saw him hit a bomb. He shows flashes of being legit. The pick had risks in it, it might not work out, but his athleticism is superstar quality, thus is was a high ceiling/low floor type pick and at the time it was made, I get it. He’s an Acuna type talent if he can get the hitting together.

 

I get the need to be optimistic but you have to be wearing rose colored glasses to see Ray as being an Acuna type talent.

[adambr2]

I saw Corey Ray score from first on a single in the gap in Spring Training this year. I also saw him hit a bomb. He shows flashes of being legit. The pick had risks in it, it might not work out, but his athleticism is superstar quality, this is was a high ceiling/low floor type pick

 

It really wasn't, that's why his progression has been so disappointing. Ray was a "safe" pick who was supposed to progress quickly through the system. No one would have described him as a risky low floor boom or bust type of pick when it was made.

 

As far as his future is concerned the fact that he turns 26 in a few weeks and hasn't been able to even get a cup of coffee in the weirdest year ever is pretty telling.

[3and2Fastball]

Keston is #2 or #3 on the team currently in OPS. It’s been a brutal year offensively for the entire roster. I think it is an anomaly, he is and will be an elite hitter.

 

I saw Corey Ray score from first on a single in the gap in Spring Training this year. I also saw him hit a bomb. He shows flashes of being legit. The pick had risks in it, it might not work out, but his athleticism is superstar quality, thus is was a high ceiling/low floor type pick and at the time it was made, I get it. He’s an Acuna type talent if he can get the hitting together.

 

I get the need to be optimistic but you have to be wearing rose colored glasses to see Ray as being an Acuna type talent.

 

He really is that type of freaky athletic talent. The “if” is the big part of it. If he can get the hitting together. It’s the hardest thing to do in sports.

[tmwiese55]

Yes it does hurt the only top pick we got in our rebuild has flopped so far. Not unlike the Bucks and Jabari. Just eyeballed that draft though and not a lot has hit in the picks immediately after him. Few names I see who've made the bigs but nothing special yet. The one that most would probably want is Lux but he was picked all the way at 20. AJ Puk right after at 6 is probably the one you'd hindsight take who was in the same range of picks.