COVID-19 Thread [V2.0]

[TURBO]

I'm sure Pfizer has known for a while approximately when they would be ready to file, and had already prepared their distribution network.

 

Making it even more curious why it was announced a couple days AFTER the election... They knew way before election day, yet waited? lol

 

Everything is political, especially in an election year.

[tmwiese55]

I'm sure Pfizer has known for a while approximately when they would be ready to file, and had already prepared their distribution network.

 

Making it even more curious why it was announced a couple days AFTER the election... They knew way before election day, yet waited? lol

 

[sarcasm]Everything is political, especially in an election year[/sarcasm].

 

Have to love the irony here.

[igor67]

I'd love to see that there was some level of coordination. Given the increased difficulty of distributing the Pfizer vaccine it makes sense with Moderna likely to be a viable alternative that Pfizer goes for the bigger population centers and Moderna spreads out a little more. The details are always going to be a lot more involved, and certainly targeting hotter spots makes sense in the prioritization as well but that is going to be a little bit of a moving target, when speed also is going to give a big boost on impact.

 

With the seeming consistent efficacy of these mRNA type vaccines I really find myself wondering how much this new technology may end up completely revolutionizing vaccines going forward

[reillymcshane]

My wife's organization has heard nothing about vaccines. As you can imagine, everyone is interested - but no word yet.

[pacopete4]

If the announcement came before election day, you'd have yahoos saying it was a political help to Trump. But because it happened after, you have yahoos claiming conspiracy the other way. Stuff gets old. Fast.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

If the announcement came before election day, you'd have yahoos saying it was a political help to Trump. But because it happened after, you have yahoos claiming conspiracy the other way. Stuff gets old. Fast.

 

Right ... if anything announcing it after the election removes the politics from it. As far as I can tell, Pfizer was not part of Operation Warp Speed.

[MrTPlush]

If the announcement came before election day, you'd have yahoos saying it was a political help to Trump. But because it happened after, you have yahoos claiming conspiracy the other way. Stuff gets old. Fast.

 

Right ... if anything announcing it after the election removes the politics from it. As far as I can tell, Pfizer was not part of Operation Warp Speed.

 

Depends on how you look at it. Pfizer did not take money up front for the research/development phase...however the US has committed almost $2bil for when it gets approved. However, Pfizer doesn't get the money until then and won't get it if a vaccine were to never happen from them.

 

Many other companies have gotten money upfront and keep it regardless of the outcome.

[igor67]

I would imagine waiting for any kind of preliminary analysis/ announcement until after the election was an entirely deliberate and appropriate decision. Pfizer is getting positive PR like crazy out of this, and they know it. The amount of money they make directly off the vaccine is almost certainly going to be very modest. But after years of getting hammered for this that or the other thing, being first (or tied for first) to get this vaccine out to people. I would do everything I could to distance myself from anything election related.

[homer]

re: Vaccines

 

Johnson & Johnson and Astra Zeneca are both working on one as well. From what I've read the results of their trials should be out either end of the year or early next year. The Johnson & Johnson vaccine is only a single dose which might be the best bet for widespread distribution.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I believe Gov Walz (MN) has recently alluded to medical staff getting vaccinated over the coming weeks, too - with Mayo Clinic headquartered here that doesn't surprise me - some of the state and hospital system leaders have to have been briefed on timing and rollout of the vaccines that are about to get some form of FDA approval for distribution, potentially as early as today based on some news reports. The first big wave of vaccinations will go to the medical professionals to help maintain a sustainable level of care in larger urban population centers and other COVID hot spots. Obviously that will help, but likely won't have much impact on viral transmission among the general public over the next few weeks and months. As vaccine manufacturing ramps up into early 2021 we'll start seeing it distributed to elderly/vulnerable populations to try and really knock the hospitalization rates down even while community virus transmission continues (hopefully at a lower and much more manageable rate than it's currently occurring). For many of us not fitting into either of those categories, it's still going to be quite some time before we would get vaccinated - which is just fine by me. Dr. Fauci has recently emphasized the fact these vaccines are intended to eliminate or at least significantly reduce the symptomatic response (i.e., "sickness") caused by COVID-19, not to eliminate SARS-CoV-2 or prevent transmission.

 

That's at least how it should be rolled out. It'll be incredibly disappointing if we start seeing stories about pro sports league and corporate vaccination programs taking place ahead of nursing home residents and/or essential working class staff are left waiting.

[homer]

 

That's at least how it should be rolled out. It'll be incredibly disappointing if we start seeing stories about pro sports league and corporate vaccination programs taking place ahead of nursing home residents and/or essential working class staff are left waiting.

 

yeah that would be infuriating

[tmwiese55]

So nice to see a light at the end of the tunnel. I was kind of optimistic on all this and for moving quickly considering the whole world is working on it. But of course you never knew what would happen, so good to see it's moving along in a positive direction. And those 90% effective numbers are more than I'd have guessed, even if they don't hold that high it's still a great sign. Also good to see no news or reports on politics involved. Trying to claim credit after the fact is what it is I don't care, but just leave all of that stuff out of the scientific process and communications and not give anyone reasons to not trust it. All in all, so far this all seems to be done as well as jabronis like us could reasonably ask/hope.

[Machu Peach]

Dr. Fauci has recently emphasized the fact these vaccines are intended to eliminate or at least significantly reduce the symptomatic response (i.e., "sickness") caused by COVID-19, not to eliminate SARS-CoV-2 or prevent transmission.

Do you have a link or quote for this? In general this is not how vaccines work. There is one major exception that I can think of, but even that would reduce transmission.

 

Also good to see no news or reports on politics involved. Trying to claim credit after the fact is what it is I don't care, but just leave all of that stuff out of the scientific process and communications and not give anyone reasons to not trust it.

There are still major, mainstream political leaders spouting antivax and anti-FDA nonsense. It's infuriating.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Do you have a link or quote for this? In general this is not how vaccines work. There is one major exception that I can think of, but even that would reduce transmission.

 

1st couple of paragraphs from an article published yesterday...

 

"As several coronavirus vaccines inch closer toward FDA approval, the nation’s leading infectious disease expert has called on the public to double down on public health measures. Dr. Anthony Fauci, in a virtual discussion with The Hastings Center on Thursday, said the eventual vaccine is meant to protect the individual from getting sick from the coronavirus, but may not prevent that person from spreading the virus to others.

 

Fauci, when discussing Pfizer and Moderna’s results in clinical trials, explained that the vaccines are being evaluated to see if they prevent clinically apparent disease in the individual, and also to see if it prevents severe disease in a person who was inoculated. However, it is not yet clear what impact the vaccines may have on transmission.

 

'We have the same issue with influenza,' Fauci said, noting that the two coronavirus vaccines are far more effective than the seasonal flu vaccine. 'You can get vaccinated with influenza and you won’t get sick, but it won’t necessarily prevent you from getting infected – although you won’t know you’re infected because you’ll either get mild or no symptoms.'

 

The same concept applies to the eventual COVID-19 vaccine, he said.

 

'The issue is that you’re not going to be completely protected against a degree of infection that you might not even notice that you might be able to spread to others,” he said. “Which is the reason why the message you may have heard me say over the last couple weeks in the media is that getting vaccinated with a highly efficacious vaccine does not mean that you’re going to abandon completely public health measures.'"

 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/11/covid-19-vaccine-trial-complete-pfizer-and-biontech-update-their-promising-result

 

of note in the above link, the statement "Nine of the 10 people who had severe cases of COVID-19 during the trial received the placebo, which indicates that even if the vaccine fails to prevent symptomatic disease, it still offers powerful protection from serious harm."

 

I'm also digging to find parameters of the study that laid out the trials' classifications of COVID-19+ cases to be a combination of positive PCR test results AND at least 1 or more displayed symptoms - meaning completely asymptomatic cases were not logged as COVID+ results (for both placebo and vaccine test groups)

[MrTPlush]

Isn't the government getting the first 100mil vaccines from both Moderna and Pfizer? If so I am sure the at risk people will be vaccinated well before pro athletes ever get a chance.

[Machu Peach]

Do you have a link or quote for this? In general this is not how vaccines work. There is one major exception that I can think of, but even that would reduce transmission.

 

1st couple of paragraphs from an article published yesterday...

 

"As several coronavirus vaccines inch closer toward FDA approval, the nation’s leading infectious disease expert has called on the public to double down on public health measures. Dr. Anthony Fauci, in a virtual discussion with The Hastings Center on Thursday, said the eventual vaccine is meant to protect the individual from getting sick from the coronavirus, but may not prevent that person from spreading the virus to others.

 

Fauci, when discussing Pfizer and Moderna’s results in clinical trials, explained that the vaccines are being evaluated to see if they prevent clinically apparent disease in the individual, and also to see if it prevents severe disease in a person who was inoculated. However, it is not yet clear what impact the vaccines may have on transmission.

 

'We have the same issue with influenza,' Fauci said, noting that the two coronavirus vaccines are far more effective than the seasonal flu vaccine. 'You can get vaccinated with influenza and you won’t get sick, but it won’t necessarily prevent you from getting infected – although you won’t know you’re infected because you’ll either get mild or no symptoms.'

 

The same concept applies to the eventual COVID-19 vaccine, he said.

 

'The issue is that you’re not going to be completely protected against a degree of infection that you might not even notice that you might be able to spread to others,” he said. “Which is the reason why the message you may have heard me say over the last couple weeks in the media is that getting vaccinated with a highly efficacious vaccine does not mean that you’re going to abandon completely public health measures.'"

 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/11/covid-19-vaccine-trial-complete-pfizer-and-biontech-update-their-promising-result

 

of note in the above link, the statement "Nine of the 10 people who had severe cases of COVID-19 during the trial received the placebo, which indicates that even if the vaccine fails to prevent symptomatic disease, it still offers powerful protection from serious harm."

 

I'm also digging to find parameters of the study that laid out the trials' classifications of COVID-19+ cases to be a combination of positive PCR test results AND at least 1 or more displayed symptoms - meaning completely asymptomatic cases were not logged as COVID+ results (for both placebo and vaccine test groups)

 

Thanks! It seems like he's attempting to convince people not to abandon all other precautions once they're vaccinated, which is probably a good approach. Based on all available knowledge I would be surprised if the vaccine did not reduce infections of vaccinated people, reduce infection severity in vaccinated people, and reduce transmission from vaccinated people.

[LouisEly]

I'm sure Pfizer has known for a while approximately when they would be ready to file, and had already prepared their distribution network.

 

Making it even more curious why it was announced a couple days AFTER the election... They knew way before election day, yet waited? lol

 

Everything is political, especially in an election year.

Has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with the amount of time and preparation required to have all of the logistics in place.

 

I can assure you this is exactly what happens with all drug launches, pre/post-COVID/elections/etc., and is exactly what happened with the half-dozen or so drug launches that I have been a part of. Everything is planned well in advance, from when the Phase 3 data will likely be available to when they will likely be ready to submit to the FDA to when the FDA will likely review so that they are ready to flip the switch and start shipping within hours of FDA approval.

 

No, they didn't know, they had to wait for the data to come in, but given the urgency and the number of lives that are at stake they had to be ready to hit the ground running as soon as the data was available. Had they not been ready when the data was available, they would have been roasted.

[TURBO]

I'm sure Pfizer has known for a while approximately when they would be ready to file, and had already prepared their distribution network.

 

Making it even more curious why it was announced a couple days AFTER the election... They knew way before election day, yet waited? lol

 

Everything is political, especially in an election year.

Has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with the amount of time and preparation required to have all of the logistics in place.

 

I can assure you this is exactly what happens with all drug launches, pre/post-COVID/elections/etc., and is exactly what happened with the half-dozen or so drug launches that I have been a part of. Everything is planned well in advance, from when the Phase 3 data will likely be available to when they will likely be ready to submit to the FDA to when the FDA will likely review so that they are ready to flip the switch and start shipping within hours of FDA approval.

 

No, they didn't know, they had to wait for the data to come in, but given the urgency and the number of lives that are at stake they had to be ready to hit the ground running as soon as the data was available. Had they not been ready when the data was available, they would have been roasted.

 

ummm k then...

 

So it was pure coincidence that this all happened 48 hours or so after the election? I don't buy it.

 

Obviously, had this news broken before election day, it would have been a big plus for the Trump campaign, and possibly detrimental to Biden.

 

I don't believe it was coincidental, but people will believe what they want to believe.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I would think (hope) that most people with an ounce of intelligence would realize that the development of these vaccines has absolutely nothing to do with Trump or Biden.

[jerichoholicninja]

I would think (hope) that most people with an ounce of intelligence would realize that the development of these vaccines has absolutely nothing to do with Trump or Biden.

 

I never underestimate the stupidity of the American voter but I can't imagine the number of people who were basing their vote on whether or not there was a vaccine before they cast their ballot was at all significant.

[homer]

The vaccine needed to come out like three weeks before the election to make any difference anyway since so many people voted by mail.

[TURBO]

I would think (hope) that most people with an ounce of intelligence would realize that the development of these vaccines has absolutely nothing to do with Trump or Biden.

 

Development, no... Timing of the announcement is the question.

[bucks2281]

Pretty sure that the Moderna and Pfizer results were unblinded the day before the two announcements were made.

[reillymcshane]

A recent CDC study in Kansas demonstrates that mask mandates do affect COVID rates.

 

On July 3, the governor of Kansas issued an executive order requiring wearing masks in public spaces. 81 of the state's 104 counties opted out of the order - meaning no masks were needed.

 

In the aftermath, COVID-19 incidence decreased (by 6%) in the 24 counties with mask mandates, while in increased (by 100%) in the other 81 counties.

 

Now, these reports are often difficult to read - so I hope I'm distilling down the main points correctly. But here's the link to the study.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6947e2.htm

 

I'm sure others can read the study and pull out some nuggets - or correct any mistake I have made.

[Machu Peach]

There are so many unaddressed confounding variables that the study is useless.