COVID-19 Thread [V2.0]

[OldSchoolSnapper]

It's a waste of time because it is obvious at this point a ton of people are not going to wear a mask no matter how many times you end a post with "wear a mask." And the longer it legs out, the number of apathetic people will continue to grow. People aren't conditioned to do this for two years. They just get over it eventually.

 

Or it becomes habit to throw on a mask for the four minutes you're inside a Kwik Trip.

 

Last week I went into auto zone to get a wiper blade. This dude came in behind me and immediately just starts this "I NEED A HEADLIGHT THAT MATCHES MINE AND I WON'T LEAVE UNTIL I KNOW IT MATCHES!" routine. He literally started screaming once he had a foot in the door. In part of his rant he went off about how he couldn't even hear the cashier through the mask. That guy is never going to wear a mask. Most people aren't that bold, but in my neck of the woods the masks are all but done. You have to wear them at school, and I wear one anywhere I go out in public, but I am about 25% of people here.

 

There are pockets like that all over the country. It's just never going to go over with a whole bunch of people. It's not the sort of thing that can be effective with 60% compliance. There are so many people in my area who are not just apathetic, but are convinced the mask causes CO2 poisoning, is a ploy to advance facial recognition software, etc. Once those seeds are planted they don't go away.

[TURBO]

 

Nope, you're absolutely right, it's not on the employees, it's on the individual.

 

 

I agree with this, however, once the individual fails, society/law/mandate has to step in.

 

I don't expect $10 an hour employees to confront and deal with the selfish idiots, but by placing those signs on the door, those that do act on the greater good should feel like that store is a safe place to visit.

 

I'm assuming there is always a manager on site of every KT, it should be their job to ask the people coming in with no mask to wear a mask, or kindly leave.

 

Had this been done from the beginning, like Menards, the issue would no longer be there. Menards did it right, KT and many other places have done it wrong from day one, and now it is too late to go back. Those that don't wear masks there, will never wear masks there based on previous experience.

[adambr2]

 

Nope, you're absolutely right, it's not on the employees, it's on the individual.

 

 

I agree with this, however, once the individual fails, society/law/mandate has to step in.

 

I don't expect $10 an hour employees to confront and deal with the selfish idiots, but by placing those signs on the door, those that do act on the greater good should feel like that store is a safe place to visit.

 

I'm assuming there is always a manager on site of every KT, it should be their job to ask the people coming in with no mask to wear a mask, or kindly leave.

 

Had this been done from the beginning, like Menards, the issue would no longer be there. Menards did it right, KT and many other places have done it wrong from day one, and now it is too late to go back. Those that don't wear masks there, will never wear masks there based on previous experience.

 

Staging a manager (not a regular retail employee) outside the entrance to simply state a mask is required for entry is probably going to solve 95% of non-compliance at businesses.

 

However, said extra employee is going to cost extra money, so unless the government is supplementing that extra salary I wouldn't expect stores to do this.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

It's a waste of time because it is obvious at this point a ton of people are not going to wear a mask no matter how many times you end a post with "wear a mask." And the longer it legs out, the number of apathetic people will continue to grow. People aren't conditioned to do this for two years. They just get over it eventually.

 

Or it becomes habit to throw on a mask for the four minutes you're inside a Kwik Trip.

 

Last week I went into auto zone to get a wiper blade. This dude came in behind me and immediately just starts this "I NEED A HEADLIGHT THAT MATCHES MINE AND I WON'T LEAVE UNTIL I KNOW IT MATCHES!" routine. He literally started screaming once he had a foot in the door. In part of his rant he went off about how he couldn't even hear the cashier through the mask. That guy is never going to wear a mask. Most people aren't that bold, but in my neck of the woods the masks are all but done. You have to wear them at school, and I wear one anywhere I go out in public, but I am about 25% of people here.

 

There are pockets like that all over the country. It's just never going to go over with a whole bunch of people. It's not the sort of thing that can be effective with 60% compliance. There are so many people in my area who are not just apathetic, but are convinced the mask causes CO2 poisoning, is a ploy to advance facial recognition software, etc. Once those seeds are planted they don't go away.

 

There's a word for that ... freedumb.

[reillymcshane]

My wife was talking with some hospital staff yesterday on the phone, and you could hear the weariness in their voices.

 

COVID is rising in the ranks of healthcare workers, meaning others have to pick up the slack. That means more hours, more stress. Many healthcare systems have houses or hotel rooms where they can send their workers who are afraid to go home after working a shift at the COVID unit.

 

Screeners at the hospital get spit at or cursed or threatened or told they are idiots. No one signed up for that job - but they do it. Stress wise - it's one of the worst jobs in the system.

 

And then they leave the hospital or clinic or wherever and see unmasked people packed into a bar - and they wonder what the hell they doing it all for. Hospitals are filling up, elective surgeries are getting canceled again, and the worst is likely yet to come.

 

The rise of COVID in our healthcare facilities amongst workers could become a really big issue - and very soon. Hospitals can't admit people if they don't have the staff to care for them.

[tmwiese55]

Generally agree with snappers point. It's too late at this point. Once it got all political that faction will not wear one (willingly) because then it means they backed down, are a sheep or lib. Without all the undermining and a divisive leader pushing this viewpoint I wonder how it would've gone. I'd still guess some no matter what, but not to this level. I don't see how we can reign this mindset back in at this point. It's not like if a new president comes in then all of a sudden people are going to galvanize behind, the opposite is more likely to happen. Probably the only thing would've been possible was for Trump at some point to reverse course and embrace taking it all seriously, get his people on board and not feel like they're 'abandoning the team' so to speak. But obviously he's in too deep at this point and can't do that, it would've needed to happen in like May/June, maybe when that southern states spike happened.

 

Of course the early back and forth didn't help either. But something that often seems missed in that convo about Fauci/CDC type people's guidance is once the several days of possible asymptomatic spread came up it made them change their view that everyone should. It was never out of masks not helping/working, it was first that they needed them for healthcare workers and second that as long as people stay at home when sick (and in general) it's not an urgent thing (since they were needed in healthcare) and not likely to make a huge change in numbers. Once the asymptomatic issue came up, it made it more ugent to do right away. Plus it had bought a few weeks by then to get production going on (which of course should've started a month or two earlier but that's besides the point). But of course a change of guidance brought on by new info being learned is spun to mean they're dumb/incompetent/lying and don't know anything.

[jerichoholicninja]

It's a waste of time because it is obvious at this point a ton of people are not going to wear a mask no matter how many times you end a post with "wear a mask." And the longer it legs out, the number of apathetic people will continue to grow. People aren't conditioned to do this for two years. They just get over it eventually.

 

If this goes on for another year or more, those that "follow the rules" are going to be in the extreme minority. And there's nothing you can do about it. You want the police to enforce mask usage and other health policies? That will not end well in our current anti-police climate.

[PrestigeWorldwide]

Regarding businesses requiring masks, I am convinced that it isn't about wanting to avoid a confrontation, it is all about not wanting to lose business. Menard's seems to be the only one willing to say "if you won't wear a mask, we're fine with you taking your business elsewhere." Our Copps/Metro Market/Pick N Save always has a manager or assistant manager near the front of the store. It would be very easy for them to refuse the business of someone not wearing a mask, but they don't want that person to take their business to Wal-Mart, because they know Wal-Mart has no problem letting that person shop without one (Wal-Mart usually has 2-3 employees at every entrance who will let someone walk right past without saying a word about no mask).

[homer]

There are already companies overseas that make you do a thermal scan before they let you in the door. So if you have a fever, the doors don't open. Could probably do the same thing with facial recognition and if you don't have a mask the doors won't open (or the turnstile won't swing or whatever). I don't see this happening any time soon here because it'd be costly but if we have a big surge this winter I can see big stores like Target at least trying it out in certain markets.

 

 

Obviously, nothing is foolproof. People can take fever reducers or take their mask off once they are inside but it's about reducing risk. If you can reduce the risk of transmission by 50% I would say that's a good thing.

[pacopete4]

Sheboygan is going virtual effective 10/16. There is a rumor Evers has urged all superintendents to do it.

 

My school board would call him an idiot, along with other not so nice words, and call for him to be recalled. We will go until a student dies and that may not even stop our school board.

[stoutdude04]

My class was down 4 students.

 

It's looking more and more lkkely my district makes some more changes. 22 teachers out at the HS today. Though, 15 of those are out because they were at a wedding last weekend.

 

 

I bet the district is a little PO'd about their decision making as a group.

 

Everyone knows weddings are super spreaders... geez

 

Yep. Super intendent sent out an email telling staff to stay away from large social gatherings. Oh. And no more eating/visiting with staff.

[Machu Peach]

I see a ton of what one of my old professors called "If only... " thinking going on out in the world.

 

"If only... overweight people lost weight we'd save 300,000 lives per year"

"If only... people stopped smoking we'd save 500,000 lives per year"

"If only... people got the flu vaccine every year we'd save 10,000 lives per year"

 

This is all true, but it's not a very useful way of thinking from a public health point of view. Changing people's behavior is hard even when it directly impacts their health (like weight-loss) or the health of others (like smoking cessation or flu vaccination). One can get upset about it and maybe even feel morally superior (assuming they're an in-shape nonsmoker who gets a flu shot every year) but that doesn't change reality. Extensive efforts has gone into promoting weight-loss, smoke cessation, and increase flu vaccination rates and changes have been extremely slow.

 

The point being: it's not very useful to focus on what's possible with ideal human behavior because you're never going to get it. I have a friend who is normally exceptionally empathic, non-judgmental, and kind ...just a good-hearted person. However this mask wearing thing has gotten her upset to the point where she's often bitterly ranting about how stupid people are and discussing different ways to punish them. It's clearly impacting her happiness and mental health in a big way. We're trying to help, mostly by trying to distract her from the 24/7 new cycle she's gotten into since being stuck alone at home, but with the pandemic restrictions it's difficult.

[PeaveyFury]

The point being: it's not very useful to focus on what's possible with ideal human behavior because you're never going to get it.

 

I think that's very fair, but it's also fair to lament the selfishness/stupidity/stubbornness of those folks. Obviously it sounds like your friend is taking that to an unhealthy degree, but I don't think it's unfair to question why people are choosing to do what they're doing.

 

I also think the examples you point to (smoking cessation, weight loss, etc.) are choices that effect one's own personal health. Stuff like mask wearing is about protecting the health of others, and noncompliance is all the more terrible from that standpoint.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

People need to wear their masks and unplug and avoid most or all of the news for a while. It's not helping anybody to get frustrated with people who are going to do things their way. It is not going to help you through this in any way.

[wallus]

I see a lot of posts about the people that are wearing masks are getting Covid. Wouldn't the thought be that people that wear masks are much more likely to get tested than those that don't? I would have to believe that there are tons of people that have it out there, have the symptoms and refuse to get tested.

[Machu Peach]

The point being: it's not very useful to focus on what's possible with ideal human behavior because you're never going to get it.

 

I think that's very fair, but it's also fair to lament the selfishness/stupidity/stubbornness of those folks. Obviously it sounds like your friend is taking that to an unhealthy degree, but I don't think it's unfair to question why people are choosing to do what they're doing.

 

I also think the examples you point to (smoking cessation, weight loss, etc.) are choices that effect one's own personal health. Stuff like mask wearing is about protecting the health of others, and noncompliance is all the more terrible from that standpoint.

 

The dangers of secondhand smoke have been known for decades; an estimated 40,000 people die from it each year. ...I also mentioned flu vaccination, but you could extend it to any vaccine non-compliance (including people's predetermined reluctance or refusal to get an eventual COVID vaccine). All are about protecting the health of others.

 

It is certainly fair to lament non-compliance to COVID measures. It's also fair to attempt to reduce non-compliance. However, I personally think getting angry or confrontational with an individual not wearing a mask will be about as effective as getting angry and confrontational with a fat person about their weight. I believe there are better approaches; others may disagree.

 

 

 

Edit: I just wanted to make it clear that herd immunity applies to all vaccinations, not just COVID.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I see a lot of posts about the people that are wearing masks are getting Covid. Wouldn't the thought be that people that wear masks are much more likely to get tested than those that don't? I would have to believe that there are tons of people that have it out there, have the symptoms and refuse to get tested.

 

This + the enormous number of people in this country who are just not going to bother with any of it or can't. Do you really think mass tests are being run in Appalachia and backwoods Mississippi? There is a whole poverty/access issue here that doesn't really get mentioned.

[tmwiese55]

 

I see a ton of what one of my old professors called "If only... " thinking going on out in the world.

 

"If only... overweight people lost weight we'd save 300,000 lives per year"

"If only... people stopped smoking we'd save 500,000 lives per year"

"If only... people got the flu vaccine every year we'd save 10,000 lives per year"

 

This is all true, but it's not a very useful way of thinking from a public health point of view. Changing people's behavior is hard even when it directly impacts their health (like weight-loss) or the health of others (like smoking cessation or flu vaccination). One can get upset about it and maybe even feel morally superior (assuming they're an in-shape nonsmoker who gets a flu shot every year) but that doesn't change reality. Extensive efforts has gone into promoting weight-loss, smoke cessation, and increase flu vaccination rates and changes have been extremely slow.

 

The point being: it's not very useful to focus on what's possible with ideal human behavior because you're never going to get it. I have a friend who is normally exceptionally empathic, non-judgmental, and kind ...just a good-hearted person. However this mask wearing thing has gotten her upset to the point where she's often bitterly ranting about how stupid people are and discussing different ways to punish them. It's clearly impacting her happiness and mental health in a big way. We're trying to help, mostly by trying to distract her from the 24/7 new cycle she's gotten into since being stuck alone at home, but with the pandemic restrictions it's difficult.

 

 

Great post. Several by others too. I actually just popped back on because I was going to add a similar thing to my last post mentioning how confronting/shaming/forcing isn't likely to change their views. It's going to make them dig in even more as no one like being talked down to or told what to do. Hope your friend comes around though, in all this political divided world right now the biggest thing I think is how/why people want to live their whole life angry all day, reading/listening to stuff to just make them angry. This is what the media feeds off and perpetuates (both sides). Seems she's caught up in that cycle. I have several friends/family in the same cycle but from the opposite side as her. So many people's daily enjoyment would be better if they just turned it off and listened to some music and relaxed, or spaced out watching sports, whatever. Oh and I was going to add that I meant in general taking it seriously, not specific to only masks.

 

Smoking is a great example. It's finally worked to get smoking to it's very low numbers now but it took what, 50 years to get there.

[MrTPlush]

I hear a lot about lack of masks in the northern half of the state and how they aren't following mandates in general. Yet, when looking at the increase in hospitalizations the northern half of the state is better than the southern part of the state. Really, outside of the NE, the northern half of the state has been trending upwards much less than the southern half of the state.

 

9/23 to 10/06

South Central: 54% Increase

Western: 45% Increase

Northeast: 43% Increase

Fox Valley: 25% Increase

North Central: 24% Increase

Southeast: 11% Increase

Northwest: No Significant Change

 

As far as mask wearing and infection rates, I am sure there is a lot of reasons for that. I would imagine those people are definitely more likely to get tested. They would probably be much more concerned about if they have it or not. Another thing to consider is wearing a mask is much more necessary in population dense areas, those areas aren't as relaxed on mandates etc. Also consider those areas have much more accessible testing. Of course wearing a mask also means you are going out in public and having the chance at getting the virus. The family I know that is the most stingy about wearing a mask (always wear it, wash it after one use, etc.) by far go out the most and isn't even close. I certainly think there is a large portion of mask wearers that think, "I got a mask on, I am good." There are a lot of things right now that you have to wear a mask to do, for instance an MLB/NFL game. That is a high risk activity you can only partake in if you are a willing mask wearer. So to some extent, even if it helps reduce transmission, mask users are going to be more prone to infection because of the activities they partake in.

[tmwiese55]

I'd have assumed most people meant the Fox Valley when saying northern, could easily just be my bias from originally being from there along with the viewing the actual north being so lightly populated.

 

I know there was a mention in an article in the last week or two regarding Dane County hospitalizations where it said they're taking on cases from the valley due to them being close to max. I don't know if there's a way to look that up or if it's being tracked, just remember it mentioned. Might not be happening anymore now since it's gone up everywhere. Just adding that in as it might be relevant on some of what you said there.

 

Interesting idea on the last paragraph too.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I hear a lot about lack of masks in the northern half of the state and how they aren't following mandates in general. Yet, when looking at the increase in hospitalizations the northern half of the state is better than the southern part of the state. Really, outside of the NE, the northern half of the state has been trending upwards much less than the southern half of the state.

 

9/23 to 10/06

South Central: 54% Increase

Western: 45% Increase

Northeast: 43% Increase

Fox Valley: 25% Increase

North Central: 24% Increase

Southeast: 11% Increase

Northwest: No Significant Change

 

As far as mask wearing and infection rates, I am sure there is a lot of reasons for that. I would imagine those people are definitely more likely to get tested. They would probably be much more concerned about if they have it or not. Another thing to consider is wearing a mask is much more necessary in population dense areas, those areas aren't as relaxed on mandates etc. Also consider those areas have much more accessible testing. Of course wearing a mask also means you are going out in public and having the chance at getting the virus. The family I know that is the most stingy about wearing a mask (always wear it, wash it after one use, etc.) by far go out the most and isn't even close. I certainly think there is a large portion of mask wearers that think, "I got a mask on, I am good." There are a lot of things right now that you have to wear a mask to do, for instance an MLB/NFL game. That is a high risk activity you can only partake in if you are a willing mask wearer. So to some extent, even if it helps reduce transmission, mask users are going to be more prone to infection because of the activities they partake in.

 

My theory is that the northern half of the state is much less populated, meaning that maintaining social distance is part of everyday life. Testing capability and the ease of getting a test is also much less up here compared to the southern portion of the state. I think the northern part of the state has a large population of people who, if they are feeling sick or exhibiting symptoms, simply stay home, rather than go to get tested. I know many people who believe they have already had it, but refused to get a test to confirm it for a multitude of reasons, most of them political at their base.

[MrTPlush]

It is probably true that Dane County is taking in hospitalization from a different area. The Wisconsin site shows two counties that actually have a serious decline (about 50%) in COVID activity, Dane County and Adams County. While that is good, both of those counties are still considered "High" so that is only so good. I am not sure how the state would reflect hospitalizations when a resident gets transferred elsewhere. It is possible that could explain an increase in that South Central region that Dane County is apart of and the rather low growth rate for Fox Valley. Fox Valley has certainly been pretty bad of late.

[homer]

Anything north of West Bend is Up North

[CheezWizHed]

Regarding businesses requiring masks, I am convinced that it isn't about wanting to avoid a confrontation, it is all about not wanting to lose business. Menard's seems to be the only one willing to say "if you won't wear a mask, we're fine with you taking your business elsewhere." Our Copps/Metro Market/Pick N Save always has a manager or assistant manager near the front of the store. It would be very easy for them to refuse the business of someone not wearing a mask, but they don't want that person to take their business to Wal-Mart, because they know Wal-Mart has no problem letting that person shop without one (Wal-Mart usually has 2-3 employees at every entrance who will let someone walk right past without saying a word about no mask).

 

My local Wal-mart has a rental guard in uniform (mimicking a police uniform) at the entrance. I stopped to talk to one the other day out of curiosity. He said that by law he can't enforce them to wear a mask (HIPPA), but simply being there and mentioning it to everyone (they do mention it to each person without a mask) more people do comply. He said he sees people look at him and turn around to the car and return masked. Or simply take a mask that Walmart supplies (I forgot mine one day). He felt that if a guard wasn't there, very few people would wear one. And he said a few people have gotten nasty with him, but only verbal. No violence, spitting, etc..

[MrTPlush]

Anything north of West Bend is Up North

 

People from Milwaukee will definitely refer to places like the Wisconsin Dells as "Up North". I have never asked what they would consider Hayward etc. as...probably Canada.