COVID-19 Thread [V2.0]

[jerichoholicninja]

Re: Wisconsin surge.

 

So many people blaming bars, which I'm sure are causing a lot of spread, but bars have been packed tight since the minute the stay at home was rescinded in May. Mask usage is almost certainly up since it being required. Positives started going up before colleges and schools started. People always want to find someone or something to blame but sometimes something just is what it is.

[homer]

Re: Wisconsin surge.

 

So many people blaming bars, which I'm sure are causing a lot of spread, but bars have been packed tight since the minute the stay at home was rescinded in May. Mask usage is almost certainly up since it being required. Positives started going up before colleges and schools started. People always want to find someone or something to blame but sometimes something just is what it is.

 

I don't think cases were going up before the college kids went back to school. It had been trending down since the end of July and was more or less holding steady. Whether it was school that caused the surge is debatable but there was definitely a surge that coincided with the return to campus. Given the age group within the initial case increase it is a pretty good assumption that it was college kids. Then it spread to the other age demographics.

 

First day of classes for UW was Sept 2. So move-in day was probably 3 - 4 days prior. Surge happened a week after that.

 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I read an article last week, want to say from NYT but I can't find it, that detailed the data not supporting the spike in WI being caused by campuses. The largest spikes weren't college aged people. I can't find the article though..

 

Everything feels pointless to me. It is too late for us to mask and isolate this away. It's simply not going to happen. 4/10 think it's fake and it's become as divisive as abortion.

[TURBO]

It's pretty bad when business owners and managers also flaunt the no mask wearing. I've already stopped going to Kwik Trip due to ther hypocracy of having signs on the door that say MASK REQUIRED, yet more than half of the customers everytime I have been in there are not wearing masks. Figured I'd try Moto Mart (another gas station/conveinience type chain, not sure if they are located throughout the state of WI) this morning to see if they are any better. Nope, the store manager wasn't wearing a mask at all, and the other employee had it down below his freaking chin while waiting on people. Another business I will no longer be visiting along with Kwik Trip and Subway.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

No store near me is enforcing it. They have the signs on the door but 75% are not wearing them. Auto Zone, Walmart, any gas station, I just do not see the masks around here anymore.

[pacopete4]

Yeah, that is the problem. Because the wearing of a mask becomes political, businesses have stopped enforcing it so that they do not piss off 40% of their customers. It just flat out sucks that people just can't do something because its the safe, smart, and right thing to do.

[NeedMoreFans]

businesses have stopped enforcing it so that they do not piss off 40% of their customers.

 

And to prevent store employees that were trying to enforce it from getting attacked. It also doesn't help that as soon as the mask mandate was put in place, a number of county sheriffs said they would not be enforcing it. Why enforce a rule if there are no repercussions?

[FVBrewerFan]

I read an article last week, want to say from NYT but I can't find it, that detailed the data not supporting the spike in WI being caused by campuses. The largest spikes weren't college aged people. I can't find the article though..

 

Everything feels pointless to me. It is too late for us to mask and isolate this away. It's simply not going to happen. 4/10 think it's fake and it's become as divisive as abortion.

 

Nobody thinks it's fake. Well, sure, there's a handful of people that believe anything. What a large percentage of people DO believe is the concern isn't worth changing your entire life for a year, or maybe two. Not saying we're right or wrong, that's just where we're coming from. Masks or no nasks, this virus will take it's course. It's why certain spots pio up, ir dies dow, pops up somewhere else. It's what viruses do.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I read an article last week, want to say from NYT but I can't find it, that detailed the data not supporting the spike in WI being caused by campuses. The largest spikes weren't college aged people. I can't find the article though..

 

Everything feels pointless to me. It is too late for us to mask and isolate this away. It's simply not going to happen. 4/10 think it's fake and it's become as divisive as abortion.

 

Nobody thinks it's fake. Well, sure, there's a handful of people that believe anything. What a large percentage of people DO believe is the concern isn't worth changing your entire life for a year, or maybe two. Not saying we're right or wrong, that's just where we're coming from. Masks or no nasks, this virus will take it's course. It's why certain spots pio up, ir dies dow, pops up somewhere else. It's what viruses do.

 

I was speaking in hyperbole, but first off, some absolutely do believe it's fake, but it's probably more like 1/20. Then there is another set that believes what you describe, and there is another set that think it is an exaggerated flu used to influence an election. None of that is my opinion, just what I have seen.

 

At this point, yes, I believe we're just busy ants and the virus will take its course. But that is not how this had to go, and if you're suggesting that, I don't agree and there is a mountain of evidence to suggest that. There are large countries all over the world that handled this about 1,000 times better and while culture and general health are factors, they don't explain Wisconsin having more cases and as many deaths as the entire country of Japan.

 

We had some influence on this and we blew it. At this point it is beyond our control. I believe both are true.

[PeaveyFury]

Mask usage is almost certainly up since it being required.

 

That may be so on the whole, but based on my personal first-hand observations in the current horrendous hot spots of the Fox Valley and Brown County, mask compliance is very, very low.

 

I think the current 'this is just the virus running its course' mantra is the latest attempt de jour to try and minimize the human responsibility for the current situation unfolding as poorly as it is. There have been immense failures on a personal, business, and federal/state/local governmental level, and attempts to diminish culpability in that regard are plentiful.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I read an article last week, want to say from NYT but I can't find it, that detailed the data not supporting the spike in WI being caused by campuses. The largest spikes weren't college aged people. I can't find the article though..

 

Everything feels pointless to me. It is too late for us to mask and isolate this away. It's simply not going to happen. 4/10 think it's fake and it's become as divisive as abortion.

 

Nobody thinks it's fake. Well, sure, there's a handful of people that believe anything. What a large percentage of people DO believe is the concern isn't worth changing your entire life for a year, or maybe two. Not saying we're right or wrong, that's just where we're coming from. Masks or no nasks, this virus will take it's course. It's why certain spots pio up, ir dies dow, pops up somewhere else. It's what viruses do.

 

It can certainly be argued that that large percentage of people selfishly not willing to change their lifestyles is also strongly contributing to the explosion of cases in Wisconsin, which is only going to prolong the mandates.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Mask usage is almost certainly up since it being required.

 

That may be so on the whole, but based on my personal first-hand observations in the current horrendous hot spots of the Fox Valley and Brown County, mask compliance is very, very low.

 

I think the current 'this is just the virus running its course' mantra is the latest attempt de jour to try and minimize the human responsibility for the current situation unfolding as poorly as it is. There have been immense failures on a personal, business, and federal/state/local governmental level, and attempts to diminish culpability in that regard are plentiful.

 

Mask compliance has got to be less than 1/3 in Washington County. I think the mandates were effective in places like Milwaukee where there was already a lot of compliance and now there is near universal compliance.

[homer]

Mask usage is almost certainly up since it being required.

 

That may be so on the whole, but based on my personal first-hand observations in the current horrendous hot spots of the Fox Valley and Brown County, mask compliance is very, very low.

 

I think the current 'this is just the virus running its course' mantra is the latest attempt de jour to try and minimize the human responsibility for the current situation unfolding as poorly as it is. There have been immense failures on a personal, business, and federal/state/local governmental level, and attempts to diminish culpability in that regard are plentiful.

 

Mask compliance has got to be less than 1/3 in Washington County. I think the mandates were effective in places like Milwaukee where there was already a lot of compliance and now there is near universal compliance.

 

Which is why the increased indoor restrictions in Milwaukee make no sense right now. A regional approach is the right way to go.

[Jimbo]

https://www.jsonline.com/story/communities/waukesha/2020/10/06/matteos-italian-ristorante-waukesha-closing-october/3624717001/

 

We have dined at this restaurant semi-frequently for twenty years. The food was excellent, but service was slow at times. A couple months back, we wanted to dine there. My wife calls them about safe practices and was given evasive answers. We show up and none of the staff is masked, decided to eat anyways. As we finished up, another party was seated in the booth next to us. We were quite upset about the experience, decided we weren't going back. Then I saw the news yesterday. Can't say that I feel much sympathy.

[jerichoholicninja]

I read an article last week, want to say from NYT but I can't find it, that detailed the data not supporting the spike in WI being caused by campuses. The largest spikes weren't college aged people. I can't find the article though..

 

Everything feels pointless to me. It is too late for us to mask and isolate this away. It's simply not going to happen. 4/10 think it's fake and it's become as divisive as abortion.

 

Nobody thinks it's fake. Well, sure, there's a handful of people that believe anything. What a large percentage of people DO believe is the concern isn't worth changing your entire life for a year, or maybe two. Not saying we're right or wrong, that's just where we're coming from. Masks or no nasks, this virus will take it's course. It's why certain spots pio up, ir dies dow, pops up somewhere else. It's what viruses do.

 

It can certainly be argued that that large percentage of people selfishly not willing to change their lifestyles is also strongly contributing to the explosion of cases in Wisconsin, which is only going to prolong the mandates.

 

Not really. Look at Europe and all those countries that "did the right thing" and their citizens "followed the rules". As soon as restrictions were relaxed, cases went shooting right back up. The only thing that's going to end this is a vaccine. Masks and social distancing is just a bandaid on a severed limb.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

Not really. Look at Europe and all those countries that "did the right thing" and their citizens "followed the rules". As soon as restrictions were relaxed, cases went shooting right back up. The only thing that's going to end this is a vaccine. Masks and social distancing is just a bandaid on a severed limb.

 

Masks and distancing was never, ever presented as a surefire solution. They are precautionary measures that simply buy time in an effort to keep the country's medical infrastructure from being overwhelmed until a viable vaccine is available. The problem is that the restrictions were never really relaxed in Wisconsin. They were simply not followed to begin with, from probably the end of April on.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

 

Not really. Look at Europe and all those countries that "did the right thing" and their citizens "followed the rules". As soon as restrictions were relaxed, cases went shooting right back up. The only thing that's going to end this is a vaccine. Masks and social distancing is just a bandaid on a severed limb.

 

Masks and distancing was never, ever presented as a surefire solution. They are precautionary measures that simply buy time in an effort to keep the country's medical infrastructure from being overwhelmed until a viable vaccine is available. The problem is that the restrictions were never really relaxed in Wisconsin. They were simply not followed to begin with, from probably the end of April on.

 

I mean this is sort of a half-truth. The spiel was that after a few months of masking we'd be in a spot where we could relax. The masking and distancing in most of the US was pretty half-assed though, as you said. However, even with better compliance, I think it's obvious by now we'd still be doing masks and distancing like much of the world still is.

 

The expected date of a vaccine and when we'd be able to to be "normal" was and is constantly pushed back. There were a lot of people claiming we'd be out of this by now if only we'd listened and I'm not sure that's close to true. I think we could have put a big dent in the numbers, but we'd still be under all kinds of restrictions.

 

I think it's fair to say that drugs are the only way out of this.

[PeaveyFury]

Not really. Look at Europe and all those countries that "did the right thing" and their citizens "followed the rules". As soon as restrictions were relaxed, cases went shooting right back up. The only thing that's going to end this is a vaccine. Masks and social distancing is just a bandaid on a severed limb.

 

Bold added by me for emphasis.

 

The State of Wisconsin has had more cases than the COUNTRY OF JAPAN, and the COUNTRY OF AUSTRALIA. The difference? Enacting proper policies to contain the virus, and a populace willing to adhere to them.

[tmwiese55]

Not really. Look at Europe and all those countries that "did the right thing" and their citizens "followed the rules". As soon as restrictions were relaxed, cases went shooting right back up. The only thing that's going to end this is a vaccine. Masks and social distancing is just a bandaid on a severed limb.

---

 

Generally true. However, in that process thousands of lives were saved. I know someone just said how they can't be convinced it's serious enough to change their lives, well to all those dead people and their families it is. And since Europe listened they re-started from a much lower number, which makes it easier to handle/track etc as they're now dealing with increases/outbreaks. If say WI had listened in spring/early summer then school timeframe would've been started at much lower numbers and the subsequent slower/lower spread at this time. Possibly all schools could've been started in person as well. And yes increases will comes as things are lifted and more thing open (such as schools) but if you'd started at a lower number all subsequent numbers would be lower.

 

As I think snapper has said though, the horse has left the barn at this point. A huge chunk of people refuse to take it serious and there's nothing that can be done to change their mind. Blaming the sheriff's or a kwik trip manager for not getting in confrontations seems out of place. It's just impossible to do, the people have to just do it and it's not going to happen at this point with such a large percent writing it off as no big deal.

 

I also don't blame the people deciding to open schools, for however much that's contributed. It was somewhat predictable to be a factor to increase (who knows how much) but you also can't blame communities for trying to find a way. I just wished they'd tried or cared back in spring/early summer with the end game of schools in fall in mind. Colleges though, yea I can see placing some blame there. But normal elementary to middle school kids, I get trying your best to make it work.

 

I just generally don't get the 'well there was nothing that could've been done' type takes when looking at the rest of the world it's pretty clear plenty could've been done.

[PeaveyFury]

I just generally don't get the 'well there was nothing that could've been done' type takes when looking at the rest of the world it's pretty clear plenty could've been done.

 

Thanks for summarizing my view better than I've been able to, as I agree completely.

[JosephC]

 

Which is why the increased indoor restrictions in Milwaukee make no sense right now. A regional approach is the right way to go.

 

Nope, gotta do it for the whole state. Because there may be a bunch of drunk college kids three counties away that will invade Milwaukee and end up killing everyone's Grandma because they will infect someone in a room at 50% capacity, whereas they cannot infect someone in a room at 25% capacity.

 

But in all serious, gone are the days when government is expected to maintain law and order and provide a few basic services like cleaning the streets and picking up the garbage. Now Evers is expected to be the Grand Patriarch of all mere mortals in the state of Wisconsin. So everything is applied equally, because the perception that the government is protecting everyone must be maintained.

 

Hopefully I'll have time to read the new order when I get home from work tonight.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

Which is why the increased indoor restrictions in Milwaukee make no sense right now. A regional approach is the right way to go.

 

Nope, gotta do it for the whole state. Because there may be a bunch of drunk college kids three counties away that will invade Milwaukee and end up killing everyone's Grandma because they will infect someone in a room at 50% capacity, whereas they cannot infect someone in a room at 25% capacity.

 

But in all serious, gone are the days when government is expected to maintain law and order and provide a few basic services like cleaning the streets and picking up the garbage. Now Evers is expected to be the Grand Patriarch of all mere mortals in the state of Wisconsin. So everything is applied equally, because the perception that the government is protecting everyone must be maintained.

 

Hopefully I'll have time to read the new order when I get home from work tonight.

 

The new order doesn't really change much at the end of the day. The responsible establishments were already operating at a drastically reduced seating capacity, if they were allowing in-person dining at all. The irresponsible establishments just simply aren't going to adhere to the order, so it's going to be status quo.

[jerichoholicninja]

On Monday night, the state’s health department confirmed that “S.N.L.” had followed its reopening guidelines by “casting” members of the live audience for its season premiere on Saturday — the show’s first live episode since March 7 — and paying them for their time. (It is not clear how many audience members were paid guests.)

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/06/arts/television/snl-live-audience-paycheck.html

 

Looks like the state of New York is really "taking it seriously". What a stupid loophole to come up with. I'm sure it was created because all the media and entrainment types who have been telling us for months to "stay home and stay safe" saw their bank accounts starting to dwindle so they wrote a few checks to the right people.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Not really. Look at Europe and all those countries that "did the right thing" and their citizens "followed the rules". As soon as restrictions were relaxed, cases went shooting right back up. The only thing that's going to end this is a vaccine. Masks and social distancing is just a bandaid on a severed limb.

 

Bold added by me for emphasis.

 

The State of Wisconsin has had more cases than the COUNTRY OF JAPAN, and the COUNTRY OF AUSTRALIA. The difference? Enacting proper policies to contain the virus, and a populace willing to adhere to them.

 

How many tests did Japan run overall during the 9-10 months COVID was known to be in their country? About 500k more than the state of WI has done during roughly 7 months. Japan has roughly 25x as many people as Wisconsin does. Japan's confirmed case count total is about as meaningful to compare elsewhere as Mexico's. Despite limited testing, Japan did have a notable spike in cases this summer and did nothing in terms of additional lockdowns or limitations - and it dipped back down again on its own.They simply didnt care to try and track asymptomatic or mile symptomatic case spread because they never tested enough to do so, and their population never truly had the threat of widespread hospitalizations/deaths.

 

Japan's population in general is probably 25x healthier than Wisconsin's in terms of diet and comorbidities - thats the major difference with how they were able to navigate this year and be in a much better position. If what you mean by proper policy dates back to eating better and generally being healthier as a country much earlier than when covid showed up in fall 2020 on this planet, then we agree.

[PeaveyFury]

How many tests did Japan run overall during the 9-10 months COVID was known to be in their country? About 500k more than the state of WI has done during roughly 7 months. Japan has roughly 25x as many people as Wisconsin does.

 

Couldn't this also be viewed as 'Wisconsin has more cases than Japan despite having 1/25th of the population??'

 

Regarding Japan's population and health, you also left out that their population also has a long history of voluntary mask wearing to prevent typical disease spread.