2020 Miscellaneous NFL News

[HiAndTight]

Bill O' Brien out as Texans GM and head coach.

 

Drat! I was still hoping for a mid-season trade with Texas...

 

 

I still have dreams of JJ returning to Green Bay to finish his career.

JJ would be almost the same age as Reggie was when he came to Green Bay assuming JJ came here as a Free Agent.

 

 

But I don't know if even Bill O'Brien would trade away a franchise icon like Watt though. But his contract is VERY reasonable if we were to acquire him.

[HiAndTight]

I am sorry but what has happened to the 49ers through 4 games does not happen all the time. I dont think i have ever seen a team without their starting qb, top 2 rbs, top wr with other injuries hurting depth, all pro te for two games and his back up hurt. Literally every starting skill position player has missed multiple games or parts of multiple games. That is not regular. Not to mention down at least 3 starters on defense either out for the year or on IR.

 

I've heard the injury spiel before. They're as much a part of the game anything else. It is one Vikings fans' favorite tropes. They are probably the single biggest reason these pre-emptive dynasties don't come to fruition. I don't know why you're bringing them up like they negate what I said. They are precisely the reason I dislike the "this team is set up for X years" statements. They happen all the time.

 

Some of those injured players will never be as good again. It happens to everybody.

 

 

Nobody's arguing injuries don't happen, the point being made is they're happening this season at a disproportionate rate.

 

Would you argue that the Chiefs are set up for years? You assume injuries...you don't assume your entire secondary, and most of your DL, QB, top 3 WR'ers...etc...etc...being injured.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Injuries aren't happening at a disproportionate rate. We didn't have a preseason where 10 notable guys went on IR. That's the only difference. SF got hit hard. Boo hoo.

 

My point was that injuries occur, NFL coaches grow wise to schemes, there are any number of reasons sustained success doesn't happen. So when teams get anointed to do so and people say things like the Packers "didn't close the gap with SF" I just don't take it very seriously because they don't need to close a gap with one team. They just need to develop and improve and the chaos of things will shake up who the contenders are.

 

And yes, KC is probably set up, because they have the stud QB. That is a much better indicator of sustainable success in the NFL as opposed to a good defense, which is far harder to sustain over a long period.

[HiAndTight]

Injuries aren't happening at a disproportionate rate. We didn't have a preseason where 10 notable guys went on IR. That's the only difference. SF got hit hard. Boo hoo.

 

My point was that injuries occur, NFL coaches grow wise to schemes, there are any number of reasons sustained success doesn't happen. So when teams get anointed to do so and people say things like the Packers "didn't close the gap with SF" I just don't take it very seriously because they don't need to close a gap with one team. They just need to develop and improve and the chaos of things will shake up who the contenders are.

 

And yes, KC is probably set up, because they have the stud QB. That is a much better indicator of sustainable success in the NFL as opposed to a good defense, which is far harder to sustain over a long period.

 

 

The 49'ers haven't had a disproportionate number of injuries? Seriously?

 

I don't know what the "boo-hoo" comment was about, I'm not complaining as I couldn't care less about SF, just pointing out the facts. The 49'ers have been absolutely crushed by injuries.

 

I'm not and was never arguing about the Packers closing the gap argument. Though...I understand it, you don't count on a team getting as beat up as they do, but there are also variables. Young players stepping up, or how the Packers offense has improved in the 2nd year.

[CheezWizHed]

I honestly would love to see this Packer offense against the 49er defense with both teams fully healthy.

[PinaMadness]

I honestly would love to see this Packer offense against the 49er defense with both teams fully healthy.

I wouldn't. I want to see this offense against a decimated Niner defense.

[CheezWizHed]

I honestly would love to see this Packer offense against the 49er defense with both teams fully healthy.

I wouldn't. I want to see this offense against a decimated Niner defense.

 

If it means going to the SB, sure. But to test how we grown... I think this team can match up - despite minimal personnel changes- better than last year.

[HiAndTight]

I honestly would love to see this Packer offense against the 49er defense with both teams fully healthy.

I wouldn't. I want to see this offense against a decimated Niner defense.

 

If it means going to the SB, sure. But to test how we grown... I think this team can match up - despite minimal personnel changes- better than last year.

 

 

To test us? Sure. The 49'ers would be just about perfect since they run the same offense...which their D practices against. If they couldn't stop us. if they were healthy, who can? Maybe Baltimore?

 

And it'd give our defense a REAL test. I don't think our run defense has improved and I don't know if they're gonna go out and get a Damon Harrison or a Marcell Dareus...or whoever. Wynn likey isn't going to be enough.

[PeaveyFury]

It's remarkable that they didn't just can him after that horrible Hopkins trade. They're horrible, and he traded away their 1st AND SECOND this year so they can't even capitalize on their horribleness.

 

 

Well it's hard to blame Bill O'Brien for struggling in Houston when his GM keeps handcuffing him.

 

How much buyer’s remorse do you think team leadership had on that promotion?

 

“He’s won us four division titles, I’m sure he can handle the personnel side just fine. What could possibly go wro....”

 

[O’Brien makes two franchise-crippling trades within months of taking over the personnel side]

 

“Oh.”

[adambr2]

On the Hopkins deal:

 

Were other GMs aware that Hopkins was available and that was just the best deal he could get? Or did O'Brian just deal with one team and incredulously take the first lowball offer he got?

[PeaveyFury]

On the Hopkins deal:

 

Were other GMs aware that Hopkins was available and that was just the best deal he could get? Or did O'Brian just deal with one team and incredulously take the first lowball offer he got?

 

I guess we may never know for sure, but I'd be shocked if he couldn't have received more on the market. They literally traded one of the best receivers in the league for a guy that was a great RB five seasons ago (an eternity in RB life span) and to move up from a 4th to the 2nd. The latter part of the trade was somewhat necessitated by O'Brien trading away their 1sts in last year's draft and 2021, but he didn't even do that part right since they didn't actually add a pick.

 

The Johnson part of the trade is just puzzling. I simply can't believe they wouldn't have been able to grab a clean first for Hopkins alone.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I honestly would love to see this Packer offense against the 49er defense with both teams fully healthy.

 

I'm with you. That's the best test of the offense. Even their best teams have had big issues as soon as a good defense gets overly physical. I would never describe a McCarthy offense as tough. This one might have the running game to offset it. The good news is that the defenses in the NFC are not particularly tough. At this point the Packers are my clear lead horse in the NFC. I think they would be tested by Seattle but are a more well-rounded team.

 

Their next opponent should be a good one though. I believe it's Tampa, a team with great defensive speed and one that for whatever reason Rodgers has had a lot of trouble with in his career, probably coincidentally.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I honestly would love to see this Packer offense against the 49er defense with both teams fully healthy.

 

I'm with you. That's the best test of the offense. Even their best teams have had big issues as soon as a good defense gets overly physical. I would never describe a McCarthy offense as tough. This one might have the running game to offset it. The good news is that the defenses in the NFC are not particularly tough. At this point the Packers are my clear lead horse in the NFC. I think they would be tested by Seattle but are a more well-rounded team.

 

Their next opponent should be a good one though. I believe it's Tampa, a team with great defensive speed and one that for whatever reason Rodgers has had a lot of trouble with in his career, probably coincidentally.

 

The differences this Packers offense hopefully has compared to recent years is a solid running game, obvious willingness to use motion/misdirection that can help free up receivers from jams to get the ball out on time, and a group of TEs that are looking like they can finally stress the middle of a coverage defense.

 

Looking forward to the Tampa game, hopefully with Clark and Adams back on the field and after hearing all the other defensive injuries last night are of the minor variety - lots of guys knicked up last night

[Jimbo]

Honestly, the biggest factor in "closing the gap" year in/year out is teams that take a big leap going from playing 4th place schedules the year they burst onto the scene to having to face 1st place/playoff team caliber schedules the very next year - that really shows up for teams that don't have a stud playing QB year in/year out. Those teams almost always run into salary cap hell, too. Injuries are obviously a third huge factor, and they inevitably derail even the most ironclad-looking rosters. San Fran is in a tough division, playing a 1st place schedule, and has the NFC South as part of its out of division schedule. Another 13-3 wasn't going to happen even if they were pristinely healthy.

 

I understand the point you are trying to make, but does it still hold true? Back in the 80's and 90's with 13-team conferences, the fifth-place team had a huge advantage. I don't have a link pointing to the formula used then. Today, does that advantage still hold?

[nodakfan17]

In case you were doubting the NFL’s popularity:

 

Game 3 of the NBA Finals was played Sunday at the same time as SNF. It drew only 4.0 million viewers vs. 11.8 million for SNF.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

There is not much incentive to watch MLB/NBA games not involving your favorite team unless it's an exceptionally good series/you are a diehard fan of the sport. I watched the GS-CLE series that went 7 games but LeBron-AD vs. Miami doesn't do anything for me.

 

The NFL owes a lot to fantasy football. I don't personally watch non-Packers games, but there was a 10-year period or so when I did and it was pretty much solely due to fantasy football. People play other fantasy sports but they don't come close what football has.

[CheezWizHed]

The NFL is tailor made for the US TV watching population:

- action/violence (i.e. tackling and collisions) occur every play.

- Short bursts of action with a break between.

 

Quite literally, I can be doing something else, lookup and watch the snap, see the tackle/incompletion, then go back to whatever else(Which was commenting on this forum last night) until the next snap.

 

Welcome to our short attention span society.

[nodakfan17]

On the Hopkins deal:

 

Were other GMs aware that Hopkins was available and that was just the best deal he could get? Or did O'Brian just deal with one team and incredulously take the first lowball offer he got?

 

The Vikings basically received a 1st, 4th, and 5th for Diggs (after netting out a few late round picks).

[CheezWizHed]

On the Hopkins deal:

 

Were other GMs aware that Hopkins was available and that was just the best deal he could get? Or did O'Brian just deal with one team and incredulously take the first lowball offer he got?

 

The Vikings basically received a 1st, 4th, and 5th for Diggs (after netting out a few late round picks).

 

Which was a little surprising given that he was clearly on the outs with the Vikings. If you had reversed those two trades, it probably would've been more logical for value and situation.

[jerichoholicninja]

Honestly, the biggest factor in "closing the gap" year in/year out is teams that take a big leap going from playing 4th place schedules the year they burst onto the scene to having to face 1st place/playoff team caliber schedules the very next year - that really shows up for teams that don't have a stud playing QB year in/year out. Those teams almost always run into salary cap hell, too. Injuries are obviously a third huge factor, and they inevitably derail even the most ironclad-looking rosters. San Fran is in a tough division, playing a 1st place schedule, and has the NFC South as part of its out of division schedule. Another 13-3 wasn't going to happen even if they were pristinely healthy.

 

I understand the point you are trying to make, but does it still hold true? Back in the 80's and 90's with 13-team conferences, the fifth-place team had a huge advantage. I don't have a link pointing to the formula used then. Today, does that advantage still hold?

 

Yes, you play the teams in your conference that finished the same in their division as you did in yours the year before. So if you won your division you play the other division winners from your conference. If you finished second in your division, you play the other second place finishers and so on.

[tmwiese55]

Your place of finish only affects two games difference vs rest of your division. While yes it's a factor, it's not thaaat huge of one.

[HiAndTight]

It's remarkable that they didn't just can him after that horrible Hopkins trade. They're horrible, and he traded away their 1st AND SECOND this year so they can't even capitalize on their horribleness.

 

 

Well it's hard to blame Bill O'Brien for struggling in Houston when his GM keeps handcuffing him.

 

How much buyer’s remorse do you think team leadership had on that promotion?

 

“He’s won us four division titles, I’m sure he can handle the personnel side just fine. What could possibly go wro....”

 

[O’Brien makes two franchise-crippling trades within months of taking over the personnel side]

 

“Oh.”

 

I can't imagine. He destroyed that franchise. Someone tweeted out the four significant trades he made and it was just awful. He justified trading a 2nd for Cooks by saying this year was going to be a "veteran kind of year" so he wanted vets over picks. So I'd love to hear the justification for trading Hopkins.

 

They gave Cobb 3/27 and guaranteed him 18 million and they're paying Cooks about what Hopkins was set to make this year.

 

I feel bad for Watson. Three great young QB's in the AFC and the Ravens and Chiefs seem to be doing everything right while his team was loaded and they've done just about everything wrong.

[HiAndTight]

Your place of finish only affects two games difference vs rest of your division. While yes it's a factor, it's not thaaat huge of one.

 

 

Especially with the premise that teams are up and down. A 1st place schedule is a couple game difference and from year to year it can be easier than a 2nd or 3rd place finish depending on the division.

 

Are the Packers better or worse for having to play SF and Philly vs the Vikes having to play Seattle and Dallas? It's a tossup and I don't think it makes much of a difference.

[HiAndTight]

On the Hopkins deal:

 

Were other GMs aware that Hopkins was available and that was just the best deal he could get? Or did O'Brian just deal with one team and incredulously take the first lowball offer he got?

 

The Vikings basically received a 1st, 4th, and 5th for Diggs (after netting out a few late round picks).

 

Which was a little surprising given that he was clearly on the outs with the Vikings. If you had reversed those two trades, it probably would've been more logical for value and situation.

 

 

I honestly would have thought a 28 year old, obvious future HOF WR'er on a very favorable deal would have gotten them 2 firsts from a good team and 1+(like a 3rd and 5th) from a team projected to be below .500.

 

I get the Packers knew better about our WR'ers and they loved-Love, but there's no way Houston shopped D-hop around. With Gutey's desire to get another good receiver(he tried to sign Allan Robinson, went after Hooper, signed Jimmy G, tried to trade for a couple different guys and tried to sign a few different guys) if you said you could get the best in the NFL and a flawless route runner with probably the best hands in the game, he's giving up a 1st and a couple picks IMO.

 

These trades have to be done through relationships. Calais Campbell isn't on the same level, but he's a 6'8 stud 3-4 DL who has 90 sacks(30 the last three years) who's a stud vs the run and obviously rushing the passer. And he goes for a 5th?

 

 

I know Pro-Bowlers are routinely traded for relatively low draft picks, but it just baffles my mind how some of these players are traded for so little.

 

 

 

Hypothetical-Texans know their season isn't looking great, Watt is getting older and they're going to need to do a mini-rebuild. What would you give up for him? A 2nd? A 3rd? You'd have to create cap space(though you could easily extend him and cut his cap number).

 

I know it's not going to happen right now, but JJ's the kinda guy who just as a player doesn't have a ton of value, is getting older and is expensive in Houston, but could turn the Packers D from an average Defense to a dominant one. And I do think GB is the only other place he'd probably want to play(Maybe Pitt with his brother, but they really don't need him).

[nodakfan17]

The Packers don’t really have the cap space for a splashy trade.

 

They have about $6 million in cap space this year and $4 million in cap space next year (assuming the salary cap stays the same). That means they have $4 million to sign all of their draft picks, plus Aaron Jones, David Bahktiari, Corey Linsley, and Kevin King. Sure, they’ll get some relief by cutting and re-structuring, but the money has been spent. The free agency splurge in 2019 (Z. Smith, P. Smith, Amos, and Turner) will cost the Packers a combined $54 million in 2021. Add Rodgers ($36mm) and Adams ($16mm) and you have 6 players taking up 58% of next year’s cap. It’s hard to argue with the results, but I wouldn’t count on a big trade due to the financial situation.

 

I wouldn’t mind seeing the Packers use mid to late round picks to patch holes in the current roster, assuming they are contenders going into the trade deadline.